Obama (Barry Soetoro)Has Duel Citizenship? , page 6

enjoy the reading here are some Indonesian law sources for you.


Indonesian law, Constitution of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958

Law No. 12 of
2006 dated 1 Aug. 2006 concerning Citizenship of Republic of Indonesia

COULDN'T FIND ONLINE

Law No. 9 of 1992 dated 31 Mar.

Republic of Indonesia Constitution 1945, As amended by the First Amendment of 1999, the Second Amendment of 2000, the Third Amendment of 2001 and the Fourth Amendment of 2002, Chapter X, Citizens and Residents, Article 26

USC for loss of citizenship.
8 USC §1481(a)(2)

Obama is accused of using an Indonesian passports at the age of 20 to travel to the middle east. If he did he made an oath to Indonesia after the age of 18
Indonesian passports

[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]

[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by Areal51

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So, you admonish about using Wikipedia - - by using Wikipedia?

Hmmmm No i was showing you that anyone could edit a WIKI page and showed you who was the one that editted it.

I asked you to explain what goes on inside the mind of a district court judge. I didn't ask you state the obvious. Anybody on board could tell another that a judge looks at the laws for himself to determine which best applies. I asked to explain what goes through a district court judge's mind. That is, what I asked. And you offer something that could apply to anybody, laymen or law professionals, could do. I'm pretty sure that a district court judge considers things differently than a circuit court judge, or a supreme court justice. But don't bother trying to explain. It's clear from your answer that you don't know a damn thing, and could hardly tell me what I'm getting at by asking you that question.

What do you think the rules are different for each level of judges? News Flash they all have to follow the laws. For Federal judges the have to follow the constitution and U.S. Code. I Concede that any Judge wouldn't want this case. no matter what they do will have an impact on the election. even if the ruling is after the election. and now matter how this judge rules its a sure bet it will be appealed to the SCOTUS.

I was talking about the "proverbial" clock, smarty pants. The proverbial clock that relates to the amount of time before the general election. Basically saying that if the judge doesn't want his decision to adversely effect events that might cause damage to other parties, he could sit on the suit for as long as he desired.

So by your reasoning you'd rather the Judge waits until after the election to rule and if he rules obama wasn't eligible your OK with the VP elect becoming president because was in a campaign based on fraud.

I'd Think that the Dems would have wanted as much time before the election to replace him, So this election wouldn't be surrounded in controversy on their side.

You're calling me stupid? And here you were thinking that I was referring to the case! To some statutory limit as to how long civil cases can be left open and unheard. Civil cases can take years to be heard, and then years to be tried. Depending on the case. And it's all at the discretion of the judge.

Clearly it is you who does not have a light bulb on upstairs.

There you go putting words in my mouth and trying to spin things. and just who was making personal attacks?? Hmmm thats why their was a motion for expidited discovery and rulings. I wonder why Berg made those motions back in Sept, and again this month? So it wouldn't take years.

I'll let you in on another little tip. One of the motions Berg filed Obama had 30 days to respond to and he didn't and by doing so he admitted everything that Berg has claimed backed up by some pretty big cases that set the precidence. Now the Judge will be forced to rule in favor of Berg because Mr. Obama didn't respond to that particular motion. By default the judge has to rule in favor with Berg.


the rest of your drival is just spin i'm going to bed now. you have some reading to do.

reply to post by Areal51

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i'm not paying a membership just to get Maya Kassandra Soetoro State of Hawaii birth certificate.

But she does have a birth certificate issued by Hawaii

do a search yourself
SEARCH

this site says she has 2 birth certificates.
source

[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]

[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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Originally posted by Mercenary2007
I'll let you in on another little tip. One of the motions Berg filed Obama had 30 days to respond to and he didn't and by doing so he admitted everything that Berg has claimed backed up by some pretty big cases that set the precidence. Now the Judge will be forced to rule in favor of Berg because Mr. Obama didn't respond to that particular motion. By default the judge has to rule in favor with Berg.

There is a question of whether Berg followed the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

Today, Berg filed a motion for summary judgment, essentially asking the court to make a determination without going to trial. Because Barack Obama and the DNC failed to answer or object to his request for admissions within the mandatory 30-day period, Berg says, the admissions are admitted by default and, therefore, there are no longer any genuine issues of material facts remaining and, therefore, Berg is entitled to a judgment as a matter of law.

In other words, if the motion is granted, he wins.

Generally, according to the 1986 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Celotex Corp. v. Catrett, in order to defeat a motion for summary judgment, the non-moving party--in this case, Obama and the DNC--may not simply rely on his or her pleadings but must actually bring forth evidence on every material issue. So, here, Obama and the DNC would be forced to confront, with evidence proving otherwise, the admissions claimed by Berg to have been admitted by default yesterday.

A possible problem here for Berg, however, is the continued question sure to be raised by the defense as to whether or not the 30-day time limit for response to the request for admissions was actually running, as according to Rule 26(f) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, such requests typically cannot be served until after a discovery-related conference. If the defense can successfully raise that argument, then the admissions were not due, cannot be admitted by default, and Berg runs the risk that Judge Surrick could rule against him with a judgment as matter of law.

[Emphasis mine.] www.americasright.com...

[edit on 23-10-2008 by Areal51]

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
reply to post by Areal51

---

i'm not paying a membership just to get Maya Kassandra Soetoro State of Hawaii birth certificate.

But she does have a birth certificate issued by Hawaii

do a search yourself
SEARCH

Well neither am I, in order to support your assertions.

this site says she has 2 birth certificates.
source

Both of those are commercial sites. They are not part of the government of Hawaii. The searches are redirected to the main commercial sites. The second one said, "2 records found!", or something like that; could represent residences or anything else. Anyway, they don't present anything that disputes Maya's birthplace.

Had to post this here also since there are two thread. What I presented below means that for Obama to have been born in Kenya, his family would have had to know that Obama was going to run for President and intentionally place an advertisement in their local paper of such:

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I also have an Announcement of Birth placed in a local Hawaii newspaper by Obama's grandparents.


1

reply to post by Sublime620

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Right.

And when you couple that along with smuggling a baby back into the US to avoid a baby Obama being a "lowly" naturalized citizen it really invites incredulity.

Also, given the fact that Obama has visited Pakistan, has had Pakistani acquaintances in the past, you just know that Homeland Security and any other terrorist agency in the US has vetted Obama's credentials to the extreme. Are those agencies just sitting on significant information? Maybe. Maybe they're sitting on a technicality that could go either way, depending on who looks at it. But I doubt if fraud were involved that those agencies would sit quietly and be tight lipped about it. Unless, of course, there is some "wooooooooooo" and "booooooooooo" conspiracy underway.

---

The other thing is that Obama, by his own admission, did visit Pakistan in 1981. Apparently Pakistan was under "military rule" at the time. So those traveling there with a US passport mostly likely wouldn't have been admitted passage. However, Obama visited Pakistan with a Pakistani friend of his from college.

After visiting his family in Indonesia, Obama then traveled to Pakistan with his friend. And stayed with his friend's family for three weeks. Berg claims that it would have been "impossible" for Obama to enter Pakistan with a US passport, and therefore would have had to use an Indonesian passport. However, this ignores two other possible ways that Obama could have entered Pakistan.

Obama's friend was from a wealthy Pakistani family. The possibility exists that the Pakistani family arranged, or helped Obama arrange, to get a tourist visa approved and have it waiting at the border of Pakistan when Obama arrived with his friend. Obama then entered Pakistan, the tourist visa allowing him to stay there for three weeks in the care of the Pakistani family, who possibly vouched for the credibility of Obama not being a threat to the military regime in power there.

To me, Obama getting a tourist visa is a lot more plausible than him touring Indonesia and Pakistan on an Indonesian passport after he turned 18 and started college. Most likely Obama renewed his US citizenship upon turning 18, not having met in college the person from Pakistan who would become his friend.

And, still that leaves one other scenario as to how Obama traveled to Pakistan. He simply did not renew his US citizenship immediately upon turning 18, but put it off for some reason. While in college he met his Pakistani friend. The friend invited Obama to visit Pakistan and stay with the friend's family. As luck would have it, Obama still had an Indonesian passport. Traveled first to Indonesia, then to Pakistan where he visited for three weeks, and renewed his US citizenship upon returning to the United States.

There may be some technical reasons why the last scenario may not have happened, or even the one prior. But the point is to show that there are other possible explanations as to how Obama was able to travel to Pakistan. Which contrasts sharply to Berg's assertion that it was "impossible" for Obama to do so without being in possession of an Indonesian passport.

[edit on 23-10-2008 by Areal51]

reply to post by Areal51

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the clock was running. Obama or his lawyer didn't respond to the motion By Oct 15th, the Judge did not issue a stay on the motion.

(3) Time to Respond; Effect of Not Responding.

A matter is admitted unless, within 30 days after being served, the party to whom the request is directed serves on the requesting party a written answer or objection addressed to the matter and signed by the party or its attorney. A shorter or longer time for responding may be stipulated to under Rule 29 or be ordered by the court.

(4) Answer.

If a matter is not admitted, the answer must specifically deny it or state in detail why the answering party cannot truthfully admit or deny it. A denial must fairly respond to the substance of the matter; and when good faith requires that a party qualify an answer or deny only a part of a matter, the answer must specify the part admitted and qualify or deny the rest. The answering party may assert lack of knowledge or information as a reason for failing to admit or deny only if the party states that it has made reasonable inquiry and that the information it knows or can readily obtain is insufficient to enable it to admit or deny.

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 36(a).

oh and they had a discovery conference. Obama's lawyer wanted to stay discovery until after the judge ruled on the motion to dismiss.


this is the first site i gave for Maya's birth certificate. it is run by the State of Hawaii.

IS A STATE RUN WEBSITE

I don't know which passport Obama used to travel to Pakistan but it was after he was 18 so if he used an Indonesian Passport he Choose to be a citizen of Indonesia. If he wasn't a citizen of Indonesian after the age of 18 then why did he still have an Indonesian passport?

But at least we both can agree it is possible he used an Indonesian passport in his travels.

reply to post by southern_Guardian

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once again just goes to show you have no clue what your talking about. oh wait any information that goes against what Obama says has to come from a right wing site. so i guess the Federal docket system is a right wing site now?

Hmmmm all the links i gave for the laws were from neutral sites.

all the motions i sited can be found on the federal docket system.

All the evidence that supports Berg's claim has been submitted to the court. I wish the exhibits were available on line.

Its not just Berg that has filed motions on this case. there are at least 3 other people that have filed motions, with their evidence also.

Some people just can't stand that it could be possible that their choice for president is a liar and they bought those lies and now are afraid to admit they could be wrong.

Listing factchecker.org as a source to prove obama's birth certificate is real is a biased source. factchecker.org is owned by the Annenberg Foundation. Obama served on the board of directors of the Annenberg foundation by his own admission.

Using a book written BY Obama as a source to prove he is telling the truth is a completely Biased source.

But then again what would you expect from obama supporters. when they can't silence opposition they resort to spin, false accusations of personal attacks and accuse the opposition of using biased Sources. when in fact in this case its obama supporters that are using biased sources.
and completely ignore the FACTS put before them that shows he is not eligible to be president.

that reminds me southern_Guardian wheres that link to a creditable source that you claim obam's birth certificate is true and has been under the scrutiny of the CIA and whoever else you claimed?

when its proven Obama is a fraud i'll be a nice guy, i won't even come in here to rub it in your face by saying i told you so.




[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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Factcheck.org has been proven to be an unbiased, fair resource by all sides. In fact, even if it wasn't completely unbiased, it's still far more reputable than any of the blog sites carrying this story or accusing the BC of being faked. Moreover, this case has proven nothing as of yet.

Basically, I have that site, you have nothing (yet). Let the case work its course. Then we'll talk.

reply to post by daddyroo45

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He doesn't have dual citizenship. It automatically expired when he turned 21.

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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Oh, and you completely skipped over the fact that they posted his birth announcement.

Yeah, I think a lot of parents lie about where their parents were born, have fake BC made up, and put ads in the paper just in case their child will run for President in a few years.

reply to post by Sublime620

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I see now. When you turn 21 you can disregard any former ties,and automaticaly you lose any affinity you had for those former ties. That's a good piece of information to know.Whew that's a relief,I had always thought that young imigrants revered their homelands,now I understand that they really don't because when they turn 21 their former ties are canceled.

reply to post by daddyroo45

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Sigh... guess I'll explain it again. Or, you could do some research.

1

Obama's British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963...

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.

As a citizen of the UKC who was born in Kenya, Obama's father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UKC status at birth and given that Obama's father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), it follows that Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship after 1963. So The Rocky Mountain News was at least partially correct.

But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya's Constitution specifies that at age 21, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.

So unless you can show that Obama renounced his American citizenship, his citizenship to Kenya expired.

reply to post by Sublime620

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and no i didn't skip over it. it was covered by this, by Obamas own admission he served on the board of directors of the Annenberg Foundation. and it was also covered by the use of biased sources by Obama supporters!

about the website that has the birth announcement,

The FactCheck.org Wire and Annenberg Political Fact Check are projects of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state, and federal levels.

The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.

reply to post by Sublime620

---

and no i didn't skip over it. it was covered by this, by Obamas own admission he served on the board of directors of the Annenberg Foundation. and it was also covered by the use of biased sources by Obama supporters!

about the website that has the birth announcement,

The FactCheck.org Wire and Annenberg Political Fact Check are projects of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state, and federal levels.

The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.

www.factcheck.org/about/
[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]

[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]

[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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So you are going to singlehandedly dismiss one of the only reputable factcheck websites? Republicans and Democrats all admit this site is non-partisan and a good way to get the truth on a subject.

Another degree of Kevin Bacon please?

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by Mercenary2007

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So you are going to singlehandedly dismiss one of the only reputable factcheck websites? Republicans and Democrats all admit this site is non-partisan and a good way to get the truth on a subject.

Another degree of Kevin Bacon please?

No i am saying back it up with another source, since Obama served on their board of directors. You need to find a neutral source.

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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That's laughable coming from you but I will investigate. You're taking the stance that has produced fake quotes, lied about people taking the stand, used partisan websites that say his BC is fake, and already called this court case over.

All I have ever said is that there has not been enough evidence from either side and we need to wait for the case to play out.

But I will do my best to find more sources. In the mean time, you do the same.

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