Obama (Barry Soetoro)Has Duel Citizenship? , page 4

Even if Obama was, in fact, born in Hawaii, he lost his U.S. citizenship when his mother re-married and moved to Indonesia with her Indonesian husband. In or about 1965, when Obama was approximately four (4) years old, his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia, whom she had met at the Hawaii University, and moved to Indonesia with Obama. Obama lost his U.S. citizenship, when his mother married Lolo Soetoro, and took up citizenship of and residency in Indonesia. Loss of citizenship, in these circumstances, under U.S. law (as in effect in 1965) required that foreign citizenship be achieved through “application.” Such type of naturalization occurred, for example, when a person acquired a foreign nationality by marriage to a national of that country. Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317(b). A minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status of their custodial parent. A further issue is presented that Obama’s Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, either signed an acknowledgement acknowledging Obama as his son or Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama, giving Obama natural Indonesia citizenship which explains the name Barry Soetoro and his citizenship listed as Indonesian.

So Indonesian and U.S. LAw at the time did not allow for dual citizenship. So Obama's mother renounced her U.S. Citizenship after she moved to Indonesia with Barrack. Lolo Soetoro, either signed an acknowledgement acknowledging Obama as his son or Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama, giving Obama natural Indonesia citizenship which explains the name Barry Soetoro and his citizenship listed as Indonesian.

Obama was enrolled by his parents in a public school, Fransiskus Assisi School, a public school, in Jakarta, Indonesia.

the school registration in which it clearly states Obama’s name as “Barry Soetoro,” and lists his citizenship as Indonesian. Obama’s father is listed as Lolo Soetoro, Obama’s date of birth and place of birth are listed as August 4, 1961 in Hawaii, and Obama’s Religion is listed as Islam. This document was verified by Inside Edition, whose reporter, Matt Meagher, took the actual footage of the school record. At the time Obama was registered the public schools obtained and verified the citizenship status and name of the student through the Indonesian Government.

while Obama was in school in Indonesia. they were at war and the only way Obama could attend School there was if he was a citizen of Indonesia.

Interesting read

When Obama was 10 his mother sent him back to Hawaii to live with his Grandparents. IS there a record of him going thru immigration? If Not then Obama is an illegal Alien and could be aressted, tried and deported back to Indonesia.

If Obama doesn't have anything to hide then why don't he just prove he is eligble to hold the office of POTUS? Hell when people Questioned McCain about his Citizenship he handed over everything medical records included!

[edit on 10/21/2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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Originally posted by Mercenary2007
If Obama doesn't have anything to hide then why don't he just prove he is eligble to hold the office of POTUS? Hell when people Questioned McCain about his Citizenship he handed over everything medical records included!

McCain DID NOT turn over his citizenship or birth credentials when asked. His defense filed a Motion to Dismiss against the plaintiff. The Motion was granted to the defense on the grounds that the plaintiff did not have standing to be granted relief on his claim.

Obama's camp has done the same thing, only the judge involved has not ruled on the matter yet.

reply to post by MissysWorld

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Once again, MissysWorld, you're in the cheering section for Berg.

What Mercenary2007 has posted is Berg's hypothesis. Berg ASSUMES that Obama's mother renounced her citizenship. Berg ASSUMES that Lolo Soetoro adopted the young Obama. Berg also ASSUMES that a four-year old Obama voluntarily renounced his US citizenship.

None of those assumptions have been proven or substantiated. And even so, a parent cannot renounce the US citizenship of children who are minors; under the age of eighteen. The child has to be of age to do it themselves. So unless Obama renounced his citizenship at age four, which is possible if he were able to "convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship", then Berg's argument is invalid.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Given that a renunciation of citizenship is irrevocable, none of this makes sense.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Areal51]

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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Good job. Now if you can only prove those claims we'll have something to work with!

Get to it soldier! You have a lot of work cut out for you. Good luck.

reply to post by Areal51

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he didn't assume that Obama's Step father adopted him. it is a matter of law that Lolo had to either adopt him or acknowledge him as his son in order for Obama to attend public school in Indonesia the school was required to check with the Indonesian Gov't to verify Obama's citizenship!

it doesn't matter that Obama was 4 years old. what your not understanding is the law on the books at the time which stated that citizenship followed the custodial parent for minor children.

from my understanding Berg filed all the evidence to back up his claims when he filed the lawsuit and that includes the school records from Indonesia the paperwork from Indonesia verifying Barry Soetoro was in fact a citizen of Indonesia.

Obama's mother Had to renounce her citizenship to live in Indonesia! she was married to an Indonesian citizen living in Indonesia. in order for her and obama to remain in Indonesia at the time they had to become citizens and renounce their U.S. Citizenship.

And yes John McCain did release all his paperwork even his medical records. Not that he really had to since the senate had earlier said he was eligible to run for President since he satisfied the requirements of the 14th amendment.

reply to post by Sublime620

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I'm working on it. but short of getting on a plane and going to Indonesia to get copies of the school records and the papers Lolo signed claiming Obama as his son, plus going to Kenya and Getting Barrack Hussein Obama Jr.'s birth certificate we'll have to wait and see what happens with this federal lawsuit.

People need to look up the Nationality act of 1940 and read through it. follow the repeals and transfers of the Act to U.S. Code Titles 8. Remember the federal Court is bound by the laws that were on the books at the time Obama was born. You can't look at the laws that we're enacted after his birth Because they are not retroactive.



[edit on 10/21/2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by MissysWorld

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I have one small question, how can a small child denounce his citizenship and know what it really means? Just a thought.

reply to post by PammyK

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Obama didn't have to he renounced his citizenship by default he did when his mother did. The laws at the time say that citizenship follows the custodial parent.

And here's the kicker If Lolo adopted him that makes Lolo the custodial parent if he was adopted in Indonesia. And Indonesian laws states that an adopted and or acknowledged Child becomes a natural born citizen of Indonesia. and all ties to the birth parents are severed. When Obama's mother moved them to Indonesia at that time Indonesia was a police state, and they did not allow dual citizenship's if you wanted to stay there you had to renounce your citizenship and become an Indonesian citizen.

[edit on 10/21/2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by nj2day

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Need I remind you that McCain was born in Panama?

The DNC sued McCain in court and he provided a brith cerf.

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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No disrespect, but you have more homework to do. You are simply recycling Berg's rationale. There are alternate points of view. And what Berg says only fits because he leaves out other important details.

The other thing that you have to understand is Berg has simply filed claims. None of those claims have been substantiated. And none have been decided on by a judge.

Once you follow the paper, not Berg's paper, but the paper that is implied by what Berg claims, it will become a lot more clear to you.

Trust me, it's not as clear as Berg makes it seem. You really have to take the time to read the documents that Berg filed. That is the only way that you will see deeply into this case.

What he argues in his blog and what he has filed form two very different pictures.

I'll leave it at that.

reply to post by Areal51

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i'm basing my claims to back up his claims by what he filed in court not on his blog trust me i've read them both. i have also read the immigration laws that were in effect in 1961. The Birth Certificate provided by factchecker.org is suspicious (1)because to get a copy of a birth certificate you have to be a family member. so how did they get the birth certificate? (2) Obama Was on the Annenberg foundations board So they have a vested interest in Obama getting elected.

You say i'm wrong and Berg is wrong put your money where your mouth is and prove it with credible sources because you can't get any more credible than U.S. Code that was on the books in 1961! Sorry you can try and spin it anyway you want but at the end of the day its the law that holds credence!

So ask yourself this, If Bergs lawsuit is frivalous then why don't Obama produce

1. a vault copy of his Certificate of live Birth from Hawaii
2. The immigration papers when he reentered the U.S. at the age of 10 to live with his grandparents.
3. the oath of aligance he was required to take before the attorney general of the United states or an immigration judge. when his U.S. citizenship was reinstated.
4. his enrollment records for Universities within the U.S. he Attended.

The answer is he can't provide a vault copy of a certificate of live birth from Hawaii in his name, he and his sister can't even keep straight just which hospital he was born in.
He can't produce immigration papers with the name Barrack Obama on them. he cannot produce the oath of aligeince he took because he never took it. he won't release his enrollment records for universities because i'm betting he used the name Barry sotoero and listed his citizenship as Indonesian. Or he did use Barrack Obama and listed his citizenship as Kenyan.

After the immigration laws in the U.S. Changed to allow dual citizenships He was Given Kenyan Citizenship until he reached the age of Maturity (21)

I thought we were here to deny ignorance not spread it? Have any of you Obama supporters even tried to look into the guys past? and making an informed decession, or do you just go to Obama's website and take his word for it.

oh wait that would require you to get off your butts and go to a library and look up the relevant titles and sections of USC to see if the guy has or hasn't met the requirements to run for president. since the relevant sections are not online.



[edit on 10/21/2008 by Mercenary2007]

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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See you think I'm spinning the story.

I'm not.

But I have a question for you. Since you think that you have it all figured out, and are sure that Obama is hiding something because he hasn't shown up in court flashing documents to prove he is that he says he is.

And please have a look at the cases that were filed against McCain. He DID NOT present birth or citizenship documents to the courts for either of three plaintiffs that filed suits against him. That is fact.

But I have a question for you.

See next post.

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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Sorry, 20th amendment of the constitution says Joe Biden will temporarily become the Pres if Obama is found ineligible

if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

source

reply to post by redhatty

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thanks for that. i hadn't got that far in my research yet. its been awhile since i had to do that what if scenario with the Constitution.

But you know if Obama is declared unqualified after the election the Repubs are going to have a fit and petition the Supreme Court to make a ruling on it.

I see it now they'll claim since Obama Knew he wasn't qualified and so did the DNC that the Election of Obama/Biden was fraud and shouldn't count. and the Supreme Court will be forced to rule on the case.

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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Here's a question, Mercenary2007. A renounced US citizenship is irrevocable. If in fact Obama's mother, Ann Dunham had renounced her US citizenship, and therefore did the same for Obama. How is it possible that he regained US citizenship? Obama couldn't even become naturalized under those circumstances.

Now that is what Berg is focused on, for sure.

But, if the Indonesian allegations are true, do you think it is possible that the Indonesian government would have let Ms. Dunham keep her and her son's US passports after renouncing US citizenship for both herself and her son? Do you think the US would have done the same?

When Obama returned to the US in 1971 what passport did he use? He couldn't have used an Indonesian passport without drawing the attention of immigration and customs. And if he had, he certainly wouldn't have been able to stay in the country indefinitely, nor apply for a new US passport, or Social Security card, or birth certificate bearing the name Barack Hussein Obama that resulted from a name change. How would he prove that he was Barack Hussein Obama, when all of his identifying documents would have read Barry Soetoro? How would Barry Soetoro and Indonesian citizen be eligible for a name change and US documents in the US?

Obviously no scam took place. And it is laughable to think so.

And if you keep asking questions like that, even if you only focus on the Indonesian angle, nothing will make sense that would back up Berg's claims that Obama is not a US citizen, and therefore ineligible to run for POTUS.

This is not partisanship. This is a mix of fact with reason.

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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It is quite likely that the supreme court will have to rule on it either way. McCain was only considered eligible by a Senate resolution, but the senate does not have the authority to legislate the Constitution.

If proof comes out that Obama is not in fact a natural born citizen also, no matter who wins, we should be prepared for a constitutional crisis, complete loss of faith in the electoral process and a country with no sitting president - unless you look forward to Nancy Pelosi sitting in, which is what we will be stuck with.

Unless she is up for re-election and loses and then we have no Speaker of the house voted in, then it falls to Robert Byrd and after him to Condoleezza Rice.

I have been utterly amazed to learn through this election that there is no vetting of presidential candidates prior to their selection, only the Vice presidential candidates are vetted.

Go Figure.

reply to post by redhatty

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Source

§ 1403. Persons born in the Canal Zone or Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904
How Current is This?
(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.
(b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

USC title 8 section 1403 says he's eligible

reply to post by Mercenary2007

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I don't dispute that at all Merc, but the thorn in the whole game is the term "natural-born"

See the writers of the Constitution never defined that term, and until this year, there was never a need to.

Being a citizen and being a natural-born citizen MAY (and I say may) be a different thing if and when the SCOTUS has to rule on it.

If it was a clear-cut fact that McCain was eligible, then what was the need for the Senate ruling declaring him eligible?

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