Obama (Barry Soetoro)Has Duel Citizenship?

i herd tale's obama kick's little puppies too!!

But in all honesty i will say it a million time's..and will not accept him as president or any man if they can not show us legal proof ..when the American people demand to know...
He should not blow us off like it does not matter.
and OR tie it up in court.

it matters that we know 100% not 50 50
i want better odd's.

Some one asked me for my records and i am running for president..
and i denied the American people the chance to even see them..based on my word alone....
i would be hiding something plain and simple.

reply to post by MissysWorld


So you start this thread thereby eliminating all of the research that other ATS members have done highlighting the ridiculousness of Berg's argument?

Brilliant.

Even if what you say about Indonesia were true. Obama would still have needed to get a new US passport, a new Social Security number, a new birth certificate, and new naturalized US citizenship. And every document would bear the name Barry Soetoro.

All of that would happen before his name would be legally changed back to Barack Hussein Obama. Thus necessitating that all the documents already mentioned would then be issued to reflect the change from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama.

Plus there would be US Custom's records of Obama leaving the United States for Indonesia using a US passport, and that same person returning as Barry Soetoro. Indonesian records would reflect the inverse of the same.

Do you think that today Barack Obama is using a Social Security number and US passport that have been issued to one Barry Soetoro? That's ludicrous to contemplate. Equally ludicrous is that if all of your claims are legitimate, and both countries, Indonesia and the US, have lost all records pertaining to Barry Soetoro/Barack Obama. And that Obama really is running for POTUS on a naturalized citizenship, because there is no way even if all records were destroyed, that Obama would have been able to regain his original US citizenship. The word for this scenario is preposterous.

Piecing together Berg's logic reveals that he has none. As part of his arguments he uses unverifiable comments made about Obama being born in Kenya. Then he uses Indonesia. And with all of that he barely addresses the problem of US customs, immigration, and courts. What he does is present an orgy of circumstantial evidence with the hope that some of it sticks to reveal that Obama is not eligible to run for POTUS. That's what he has done.

And then Berg adds his two cents on top of that claiming, without factually knowing, that Obama is not eligible to run for POTUS.

The simple explanation is that Obama was born in Hawaii, and then lived in Indonesia without being officially adopted and receiving an official name change. Obama's stepfather simply filled out the school's registration form and school officials never followed up on it with the courts of Indonesia. That is the only thing that works.

Otherwise, one then claims that Obama's mother outwitted both the Indonesian and US governments who then erased a very detailed paper trail certifying Soetoro/Obama's status. Another ludicrous scenario.

If Obama being born in Kenya is added to this picture, it simply defies logic or belief.





[edit on 19-10-2008 by Areal51]

Originally posted by MissysWorld
Article 2 Section 1 states that an American Citizen must be born here and have no loyalty to any other country. He is not eligible to be President if he is a duel citizen. He needs to prove that he did not become a citizen of Indonesia or that he renounced his citizenship. Will this be the thing that brings Senator Obama down.

How can Obama have dual citizenship when at the time he lived in Indonesia as a child, Indonesian government did not allow dual citizenship?

Don't you see how ludicrous this whole thing is?

Originally posted by redhatty

An excerpt from a WSJ article
Aides claim Mr. Obama "has taken voluntary transparency steps" that allow "his constituents, the media and his political opponents to fully examine him." In reality, anyone questioning the approved story line is liable to be ignored, misled or even bullied. This isn't what reporters expected when Mr. Obama began campaigning for a "new politics" that would bring honesty and openness to government.

Have you noticed how the McCain/Palin campaign has been stonewalling the media? It's called damage control. Both parties are doing it.

Walking the rows of media outlets at the Denver convention, I had no trouble finding reporters who complained the campaign was secretive and evasive. Ben Smith of Politico.com1 has written about Team Obama's "pattern of rarely volunteering information or documents, even when relatively innocuous." Politico asked months ago if Mr. Obama had ever written anything for the Harvard Law Review as a student. The Obama campaign responded narrowly, with a Clintonesque statement that "as the president of the Law Review, Obama didn't write articles, he edited and reviewed them." This month it turned out Mr. Obama had written an article -- but it was published a month before he became president.

So what?

Chasing the rest of Mr. Obama's paper trail is often an exercise in frustration. Mr. Obama says his state senate records "could have been thrown out" and he didn't keep a schedule in office. No one appears to have kept a copy of his application for the Illinois Bar. He has released only a single page of medical records, versus 1,000 pages for John McCain.

source

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the fact that John McCain suffers from skin cancer? Obama is 26 years younger than McCain.

Again, so what? If Obama has never required extended treatment or diagnosis of anything, it's possible that his 46 years have gone relatively smoothly.

Some folks, like myself, do not rely heavily on doctors.

The other thing is one's medical history is personal. One doesn't have to release it publicly if one doesn't want to.

Few points I want to make:

• Is this post necessary? There is already a thread on this.
  
  
• You provide no evidence to back your claims up. You provide rhetoric, but that's it. Do you have documents? Do you have anything? Don't quote me "law", quote me proof. That's how arguments work. You don't just run your mouth, your provide evidence.
  
  
• Is this post necessary? (had to say it again for emphasis)
  
  
• Why do you pretend that you are talking as matter of fact when, so far, it is all a matter of opinion and speculation?

Hope you get to my questions. I am rather tired of dealing with nonsense posts like this. If I ran the country, I'd pass a bill so that people who follow this kind of mudslinging but can't answer a real political question can't vote.

Uneducated people shouldn't be allowed to vote and this thread is evidence of it.

Missy, your entire first post is filled with statements without ANY sources to back them up. Your only source seems a magazine article from 2006, which doesn't back up anything you say.

Do you know that Obama was legally adopted by Soetoro? Please, let's see your source. Do you know that Indonesian law states that to attend school, one has to be an Indonesian citizen? Source, please?

Are you aware that an adult cannot renounce US citizenship for a child? The child must stand before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer and take an oath of renunciation, convincing them they know what that means. Are you suggesting little Barry took such an oath?

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.

G. IRREVOCABILITY OF RENUNCIATION

Finally, those contemplating a renunciation of U.S. citizenship should understand that the act is irrevocable, except as provided in section 351 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1483), and cannot be canceled or set aside absent successful administrative or judicial appeal. (Section 351(b) of the INA provides that an applicant who renounced his or her U.S. citizenship before the age of eighteen can have that citizenship reinstated if he or she makes that desire known to the Department of State within six months after attaining the age of eighteen. See also Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, section 50.20).

Renunciation is the most unequivocal way in which a person can manifest an intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Please consider the effects of renouncing U.S. citizenship, described above, before taking this serious and irrevocable action.

Source

(See how I did that? I made a statement, then provided a CREDIBLE SOURCE which backs up the statement I just made.)

Originally posted by MissysWorld
When did Barry Soetoro LEGALLY change his name back to Barack Obama?? Where is the PAPERWORK?

It's interesting that you don't ask for the adoption paperwork or Indonesian citizen paperwork, but you just believe it because some guy on the Internets said it, yet changing his name BACK to Barack Obama requires some sort of paper proof for you...

Originally posted by MissysWorld
He needs to prove that he did not become a citizen of Indonesia or that he renounced his citizenship.

How can a person prove that they did not become a citizen of another country? Can you prove that you did not become a citizen of Indonesia? How would you go about proving that? Think about that for a second...

Originally posted by MissysWorld
Will this be the thing that brings Senator Obama down.

It hasn't been an issue since it was first brought up around the first of this year, so I really kinda doubt it.

Originally posted by MissysWorld
I have put countless hrs. of research into this, Have you?

Yes, I have. It's a shame you don't share any of your research with us.

Originally posted by MissysWorld
I have spent hours reading about Obama & McCains past, Have you?

Yes.

Originally posted by MissysWorld
"Obama (Barry Soetoro)Has Duel Citizenship?"

It's DUAL. A duel is a fight with swords.

Originally posted by MissysWorld
Here is an UPDATE Ot. 18, 2008 on the BERG vs OBAMA Lawsuit.
www.youtube.com...

If Obama has nothing to hide WHY will he NOT produce ALL the documents?

Just because Obama hasn't released what BERG wants, does not also mean that Obama is hiding something.

As for Berg's interview, it's just more trash. In it Berg says, "I am 100% sure that Barack Obama was born in Kenya." Well, if Berg knows so, why isn't he producing the supporting evidence of that claim?!

What is Berg tying up the courts for with his outrageous claims otherwise?

Then Berg goes on to talk about how Obama has committed crimes along with DNC chairman Howard Dean. What backs up that claim? Nothing!

The he talks about AIP having a tape of Michelle Obama saying that Barack was adopted. Berg says he and his staff have talked to AIP editor, Sammy Korir, and that Berg believes that the editor has the tape. Has Berg listened to the tape? No! He just says that he believes that AIP's Korir has the tape. Just more Berg defaming Obama. Berg would have certainly mentioned that he had heard the tape, if he had.

Berg's site, Obamacrimes.com, is filled with lots of entries, and I couldn't find any that were signed as having been written by Berg himself. The stuff that Berg says in his interviews he doesn't also publish in written form. Do you know why? Because then Obama could sue him for libel. So Berg chooses to slander Obama in spoken interviews. Again, given Berg's presentation of this case to the public, I count him as being slime. And he has the nerve to ask people for donations to help pay for the case!

Who exactly is Berg trying to convince through his fear tactics? Not I.

Speaking of frivolous lawsuits, here's another:

Lawsuit says supporter fears for Obama’s life

Getting dumber by the minute.

It's interesting that you don't ask for the adoption paperwork or Indonesian citizen paperwork, but you just believe it because some guy on the Internets said it, yet changing his name BACK to Barack Obama requires some sort of paper proof for you...

I want to know where in the news, or other sources, it reports that Obama has brought forth any kind of documentation, such as LONG version of his birth certificate, adoption papers, school records, health records, etc..
You show me that and I'll be satisfied.

reply to post by MissysWorld


No one knows what he's brought forth. Better question, what has the lawsuit brought forth and what have you brought forth?

This lawsuit was created by someone and must have some tangible evidence, not just rhetoric. And this thread was created by you. So I assume you do as well.

I'm waiting.

Originally posted by MissysWorld
I want to know where in the news, or other sources, it reports that Obama has brought forth any kind of documentation, such as LONG version of his birth certificate, adoption papers, school records, health records, etc..

He is not required to make any of this public. NO PRESIDENT EVER HAS BEEN. Why are you demanding it of him? As long as he is cleared by the State Department, the FEC, or whomever does that verification, I'm satisfied.

You show me that and I'll be satisfied.

I'm not really interested in you being satisfied. I doubt you'd believe it if I had verified proof in my pocket. You WANT to believe all the ridiculous rumors about Indonesia and Soetoro. That's why you state them as facts without any proof and then demand that Obama prove you wrong.

Believe what you want to believe. I prefer the truth.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


BH,

It was brought up in another thread today that while the Vice Presidential choices must be completely vetted by gov. agencies. There is NO REQUIREMENT for the presidential candidates to be vetted.

Strange, huh?

So basically, it is completely within the scope of possibility that no one has done anything regarding "clearing" either candidate. The only exception is the actions of the public, re: McCain being born in Panama.

So we really don't know anything other than what we have seen on the internet. And how much faith we put in those internet sites.

reply to post by redhatty


Got a link on that?

Originally posted by redhatty
It was brought up in another thread today that while the Vice Presidential choices must be completely vetted by gov. agencies. There is NO REQUIREMENT for the presidential candidates to be vetted.

This is being misunderstood. The VP candidates must be vetted by a team of advisors to the presidential candidate, but that's not the same as proving one meets the Constitutional requirements of presidency.

I will look into it more and get back to you.

Guess how many birth certificates Obama is being accused of not providing? Four! That's: 1, 2, 3, 4! birth certificates that Berg, through his argument, claims to exist!

1. The Kenyan birth certificate for Obama.

2. The Hawaiian birth certificate for Obama for his first naturalization as a US citizen.

3. The Hawaiian birth certificate for Barry Soetoro as a result of a name change, and of being adopted by his Indonesian step-father.

4. The Hawaiian birth certificate reflecting the name change from Barry Soetoro back to Barack Hussein Obama as a result of Obama becoming a naturalized citizen in the US once again.

It's time for me to leave this story alone. And I think Berg should too.

[edit on 19-10-2008 by Areal51]

Originally posted by redhatty
So basically, it is completely within the scope of possibility that no one has done anything regarding "clearing" either candidate.

It's within the scope of possibility, yes. However, with all the talk about it, why isn't McCain going after this? If it were AT ALL a question, wouldn't Rove be on this like stink of a cow patty? And wouldn't they have found something? While it's possible it just seems HIGHLY unlikely.

I can't find what department or agency checks out the qualifications for politicians.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's within the scope of possibility, yes. However, with all the talk about it, why isn't McCain going after this? If it were AT ALL a question, wouldn't Rove be on this like stink of a cow patty? And wouldn't they have found something? While it's possible it just seems HIGHLY unlikely.

I can't find what department or agency checks out the qualifications for politicians.

I have no idea why others are not going after it. And it may very well be because it is a non-issue. Then again, it may be fear of some kind of backlash. then again... I am sure there are a million scenarios my highly imaginative mind could come up with.

I am running into the same frustration regarding who checks a candidate's qualifications

reply to post by redhatty


If somebody, ANYBODY could find something real, against Obama, they could sneak it to the press EASILY and it would be all over the news. (I would think).

I did find out who judges the Senate's qualifications. It's the legislative branch of the government. But who judges the president's? No clue. The executive branch?

I guess we should keep looking, huh? But not tonight. Later.

Originally posted by Sublime620
Got a link on that?

Guess not.

What is "duel" citizenship?

And why the need for CAPS?