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This is for all the `ufo skeptics` must read

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posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by mrman81
reply to post by silver6ix
 


Does this include people that don't agree with your opinions by any chance?


Hi mrman
Something like there always gonna be 2 sides to a coin scenario thing springs to mind. We endeavor to debate with wisdom and insight without insults.

Peace people
Kirky




posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Magnus47
 


Hi Magnus
I concur with your comments. I have had similar experiences. But to cut a long story short I like to quote Jim Marrs (Rule By Secrecy/Alien Agenda/Psi Spies)

"what we think we know, we don't know"


peace
Kirky


[edit on 20-10-2008 by kirky]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by mrman81
reply to post by lifeform
 


I base my decision on the facts. NOTHING can travel faster than light speed, probably not even attain 10% lightspeed! It would require infinite energy which is IMPOSSIBLE!

And if it was possible somehow, i dont think they would come here to float around in our atmosphere and then bugger off again. We would know about it.

But its all a conspiracy aint it, its all a cover up lol!!







and what facts do you know about other inteligent life? you base your descion on current facts humans think they know.

nothing more.

your esstentially saying humans are the most inteligent lifeform in the universe, and because we cannot do it, neither can they.

the fact is nobody knows, why do you pretend to know?

i don't know, but the possibilities always remain. they do not go away due to man not knowing how to do something. that is mans current limitation to achieve space travel, that dos'nt mean other inteligent lifeforms are limited in the same ways.

of course its impossible when you do not understand how to achieve it, but that dos'nt mean it IS impossible, it just means we lack the knowledge to achieve it.

also who mentioned a conspiracy? i don't remember mentioning a conspiracy. or a cover up. we were talking about other lifeform being able to space travel. you judge it on MANS capability, thats it.

it would be like judging how fast a leopard can run based on a slugs ability.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by lifeform]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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I, for one, know that UFOs exist. It is something that I know for fact. I've seen them, and half those sightings were while on military bases. I have no proof, believe what you want either way. For myself, I know. Wheather or not some or all of them are alien or terrestrial is another question entirely. UFO does not equal 'space ship from another planet'.

As for aliens, then we get into belief. Hypothetically, if it were aliens, they and our governments have a lot to answer for. Quite a few people wonder why, if it were aliens, they don't they reveal themselves to us, etc... Well, maybe they aren't any better than we are. Perhaps their government is just as messed up, and as secretive as any of ours? Having advanced technology doesn't mean that the motives and drives of the users of that technology are any better than our motives and drives. Chances are they would be just as screwed up as we are in their own way.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by KIRKSTERUK
The biggest mistake made on this thread by the starter is he gives it a "us vs them" comparison. It's like, if someone chooses to question the footage, you are classed as the enemy. Make your arguments less biased and maybe then we'll get an intelligent discussion without the attitude.


Ha ha Funny Kirksteruk
My sentiments exactly
Kirky KonKurs


Peace people
Kirky



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by lifeform
 


Your not getting it are you mate! We have enough understanding to know that nothing can match the speed of light IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! You would need INFINITE ENERGY which means more energy than the total energy output from every sun in the whole big wide universe. A clever man worked that one out!

Im not saying the we are the be all, end all! Im just saying that the probability of us being visited by a species from some other corner of the the universe is near enough 0.0000000000000000000001%.



[edit on 20-10-2008 by mrman81]

[edit on 20-10-2008 by mrman81]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by mrman81
 


Your not getting it are you mate! We have enough understanding to know that nothing can match the speed of light IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! You would need INFINITE ENERGY which means more energy than the total energy output from every sun in the whole big wide universe. A clever man worked that one out!


I guess that's it then, us humans know everything there is to know about astrophysics and the universe. Lets sack all the scientists and spend the rest of eternity watching the idiot box.

BTW, the clever man to which you refer was Einstein - and his theories are slowly becoming super seeded by string theory etc. We have a long way to go and to suggest we know it all now is umm... ignorant!

IRM


[edit on 20/10/08 by InfaRedMan]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by mrman81
reply to post by lifeform
 


Your not getting it are you mate! We have enough understanding to know that nothing can match the speed of light IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! You would need INFINITE ENERGY which means more energy than the total energy output from every sun in the whole big wide universe. A clever man worked that one out!

[edit on 20-10-2008 by mrman81]


did that man come to that conclusion based on ALL knowledge? or just the knowlegde/theories available to man or known to man at that time?

did he know how life started? how the universe came to be? what exsisted before the bigbang? did he know everything? did he say space travel IS impossible? or did he simply propose an obsticle that would need to be overcomed inorder to acheive it?

we(MAN) cannot overcome the obsticles at this present time. what your not understanding, is that other inteligent civilisation in the universe are NOT man.

man has only explored the outer planets and looked through a telescope and then come up with many theories, theories are not known fact.

we KNOW very little about the universe. but we do have many theories.
theories change when NEW information becomes available.

judgeing another inteligence based on our own is stupid.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by mrman81
reply to post by lifeform
 


Your not getting it are you mate! We have enough understanding to know that nothing can match the speed of light IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! You would need INFINITE ENERGY which means more energy than the total energy output from every sun in the whole big wide universe. A clever man worked that one out!

[edit on 20-10-2008 by mrman81]


Einstein was from Earth, great man he was Too.
Maybe FTL isn't possible for us now, our physics doesn't grasp it. But whats to say that an advanced civilization somewhere out there hasn't worked it out donkeys ago. Why do we always look at the problems concerning FTL from an Earth/chromatic/humanistic vantage point.

Is everything that everyones seeing up there in the sky is just Hogwash/Swamp Gas???

...mmm ...doesn't add up does it.

If free energy is actually FREE and an actual reality for some advanced species of Alien and you require infinite amounts, WELL... you can have as much FREE energy as you would require to make jumps to FTL and beyond.

So called conspiracy presently suggests that governments suppress free energy concepts becuase of Global monopolized interests. My take is that your right when you say you need ooodels of energy for FTL but I postulate that a different form of physics is required, which we just haven't got cracked yet,m or is very hush hush....shhhhhhhhhhh lol

Just my 2 cents from an open minded, out of the box perspective.
Peace M8
Kirky

[edit on 20-10-2008 by kirky]

[edit on 20-10-2008 by kirky]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by mrman81
 


Your not getting it are you mate! We have enough understanding to know that nothing can match the speed of light IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! You would need INFINITE ENERGY which means more energy than the total energy output from every sun in the whole big wide universe. A clever man worked that one out!


I guess that's it then, us humans know everything there is to know about astrophysics and the universe. Lets sack all the scientists and spend the rest of eternity watching the idiot box.

BTW, the clever man to which you refer was Einstein - and his theories are slowly becoming super seeded by string theory etc. We have a long way to go and to suggest we know it all now is umm... ignorant!

IRM


[edit on 20/10/08 by InfaRedMan]


M8
Your right. Its all physics pal. I think in the grand scheme of things we're still playing alphabet blocks like in Kindergarten here on old Earth, whilst our cosmic cousins have been building skyscrapers. Just my take on your angle. Cheers
Peace
Kirky



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by weneedtoknow
So yes go ahead.. imature skeptics, take one or two of the words i say.. quote it and try and attack me...


I'll use 48 of your words..

But I won't "attack" you unless by "attack" you mean share my opinion that doesn't happen to agree with yours, because if that's the case, I am surely attacking you right now.

By the way, thanks for accessing (attacking) my (I'm a skeptic) maturity level due to my belief (knowledge so far not proven otherwise) that there are no aliens and all the "evidence" (made up stuff) so far is crap.

Perhaps I can take a guess at your maturity level based on your steadfast belief in something not proven and poor grasp of English composition? (not that mine is any better LOL)

No I won't do that, then I'd be like you, but attacking you is not the goal.



Originally posted by weneedtoknow
but at the end of the day, you know in your heart of hearts that these extra terrestrial crafts DO exist and thats all what matters!


So in my "heart of hearts" I know they exist?
Wow, thank you, right after I find that heart that's in my heart I'll be sure to look for that unfounded and ridiculously unproven notion that UFO's exist and little green guys are probing our fine countrymen in the arse on a nightly basis.


Call me when one lands on the WH lawn and a little green guy pops out to say hello. Until then I'll leave it to you to believe in "first hand" accounts and YouTube videos.

Do us a favor, look up "self important" will you?


Note: to the civil believers out there.. I respect your beliefs, I only call out the guys who act like this. (You should as well)



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by gormly

Originally posted by weneedtoknow
So yes go ahead.. imature skeptics, take one or two of the words i say.. quote it and try and attack me...



Note: to the civil believers out there.. I respect your beliefs, I only call out the guys who act like this. (You should as well)


Ha ha ha
Talk about the pot and the kettle


I respect you both as members and inhabitants of our mother Earth

Peace people
Kirky



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by weneedtoknow

Originally posted by spacebagel
reply to post by weneedtoknow
 


Show me an alien spacecraft. You can't. Show me an alien. You can't. Show me a piece of an alien spacecraft. You can't. Show me one place on this earth where space aliens have landed. You can't. Show me some impact that space aliens have had on this planet. You can't. End of story.


show me jesus
show me physical evidence jesus.. whom billions of people believe in existed,,,, you cant can you!


Hello Spacebagel
I got similar views on your take, only thing is hopefully we'll stop butchering each other over it all...sometime real soon I can only hope. Seems like all the prayers being done at the minute for peace are falling on deaf ears.


Peace people

Kirky

[edit on 20-10-2008 by kirky]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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I guess that's it then, us humans know everything there is to know about astrophysics and the universe. Lets sack all the scientists and spend the rest of eternity watching the idiot box.


Special relativity is still widely accepted and is the basis for many more theories so what are you talking about? Whats string theory got to do with anything? Did i say we know it all?



did that man come to that conclusion based on ALL knowledge?......


Well alot of his work is still accepted now, so????


Is everything that everyones seeing up there in the sky is just Hogwash/Swamp Gas???


Well i dont think its little green men either! Gonna take me more than a picture or a fishermans tale to believe something so spectacular



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by KIRKSTERUK

Originally posted by Man_Versus_AntiMan
reply to post by weneedtoknow
 


Yeah i dont think any objective person would say there isnt such a thing as UFOs, obviously there is, but anything beyond that is just suposition.


How do they "obviously" exist?

We're insignificant humans on a tiny little planet pretending we can comprehend what is obviously way out of our understanding. We still don't know what the universe is or what it's made out of.


Agreed
Thats the A-typical requirement and qualification for outside the box thinking. Most quantum physicists made their greatest discoveries by thinking outside the box and refusing to adhere to "common/current perspective facts theories and thinking", Kudos Kirkster.

The world is not flat, its sphere shaped


Peace
Kirky

[edit on 20-10-2008 by kirky]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by mrman81
Did i say we know it all?


No - but you certainly carried on as though you do. You've already told us that NOTHING can achieve the speed of light except light itself (though not in such succinct terms). Mate - you have already dealt in absolutes, meaning there is nowhere else to go in the debate... and in essence, our understanding of physics and the universe itself.

You have suggested that Einstein got it right, that we KNOW positively that NOTHING can (or ever will) transcend his theories. Given that the bulk of your argument and logic rests on this statement you have painted yourself into a corner.

I stand by my previous post and my assessment of your rash statements.

Nuff said!

IRM



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by mrman81


Is everything that everyones seeing up there in the sky is just Hogwash/Swamp Gas???


Well i dont think its little green men either! Gonna take me more than a picture or a fishermans tale to believe something so spectacular


Me neither m8
I personally postulate and believe that many of them are pretty much similar to us, a head or 2
, 2 eyes, ears, arms, legs etc et cetaraa nada nada blabla.

On another note I theorize that somewhere out there in this vastness of universes/dimensions there are civilizations many millions if not billions of years up the evolutionary scale of things...

Buts thats my take, but I respect your view, fisherman's tales, mermaids and Lochness monsters included... believe want you think you need to man. I respect yours, and others here on ATS, like I respect my own.

Peace
Kirky

[edit on 20-10-2008 by kirky]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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I think it's incredibly ignorant and egotistical to proclaim that it's utterly impossible to do this or that, based on our current knowledge. History repeats. Scientists and astronomers almost got hung because for daring to suggest that the Earth was not in the center of the universe, and that gravity exists. And today, people still proclaim with self-righteous indignation that it's IMPOSSIBLE to do this or that, because we know everything now, apparently. Hilarious.

Ponder how much we learned in 100 years. Consider 10,000 years, and how advanced we would be, if we don't blow ourselves up. I always wondered if Sagan was part of some anti-ufo agenda, since his entire belief that UFOs did not exist, was based on the "fact" that it would be impossible to get here, because of the vast distances involved.

As far as proof goes, there is a mountain of evidence. Just beause a UFO has not landed on the White House lawn, people assume there is no sort of proof at all. That's just not true. There is enough credible eyewitness testimony, radar returns, videos, pictures, that it's amazing that people can just dismiss them all. And when all other explanation fail, the ol' fallback of "It's clearly a military craft" is brought to the table. Because that's an easy out. If all else fails, it's military. That can't be disproved, since the military is mum, so that's a safe wall to hide behind.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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Ive got two words for ufo sceptics: Gillilands ranch. Paranormal state and ATS have not been able to debunk the claims of nightly ufos.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:28 PM
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I think the problem is that "believers" think "skeptics" are going out there with the sole purpose to debunk everything presented. The fact of the matter is however, most evidence produced is either something that's been clearly misidentified or so ambiguous that it really wouldn't serve as evidence anyways. Even Hynek said that only about 5% of all reports are actually legitimate. So, if that makes the man who probably contributed more to the field of ufology than anyone else a "skeptic" I'd say that puts the "skeptics" in pretty good company.

I don't think any "skeptic" here is here with the sole purpose to hurt the field, but instead we feel that the only way forward is if we stop presenting every mysterious light in the night sky as a UFO and instead focus on the truly unexplainable cases. I personally feel that the field would be much better off if our evidence consisted of only a few photos that were McMinnville quality as opposed to the current practice of exerting our energy investigating every light in the sky and blurry video taken with a cell phone. If this field ever wants to be taken seriously we need to increase our standards for what is taken as evidence, because I guarantee you no matter how many videos of lights in the sky you have it will never prove anything.



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