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This is for all the `ufo skeptics` must read

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posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by weneedtoknow

In future, instead of screaming `hoax` every time anyone has any sort of ufo footage.. bear in mind that there is MORE EVIDENCE OF EXTRA TERRESTRIAL CRAFT THAN THERE IS OF JESUS EVER EXISTING.. AND THAT CAN NOT BE DENIED!

So yes go ahead.. imature skeptics, take one or two of the words i say.. quote it and try and attack me...


BELIEVER V SKEPTIC
Result 0 – 0

God…I just dunno, who really cares…

Good post OP & congrats/respects for input, but its all been well debated here on ATS…old ground/hat so to speak.

IMHO and 2 cents. The polarised topic of UFO believer v UFO Skeptic is almost identical to the vastly polarised religious nonsense that has, and continues to pollute, proliferate and wreak havoc on our planet. It is without end and could be debated forever.

The UFO believer is yelling “YOUR WRONG THEY ARE REAL” whilst the skeptic is shouting “NO, ITS BOLLOCKS, YOU ARE WRONG. Then there’s mostly everyone else sitting on the fence, who either doesn’t give a crap/doesn’t know what to think…doesn’t this sound familiar…

In a funny kind of similar opposites game I mind-play out, I see this scenario unfolding.

The born again Christian sees the Atheist as a poor lost sod that needs to be converted for saviour of his immortal soul, whilst the Atheist sees the Christen (replace with whatever religious dogma you like) as a brainwashed fundamentalist in need of a reality check, that unfortunately requires pacification by nonsensical religion, like a crying baby who requires its pacifier!!!
Opposite sides of the spectrum viewing each other with Distaste/sympathy if you like. I see the UFO Believer v UFO skeptic in identical light.

It’s an issue that is virtually impossible to debate with resolve. THAT is very real and true. We seem as a species to have absolutely no problems whatsoever in taking giants leaps of faith regarding religions/God/Allah/Jesus. But at LEAST we are debating it and not killing each other over it. OOOO how I wish we could to the same with religion and war.

But yet many refuse to believe/admit that there’s life out there, and its been visiting good old Earth since before we were mud slime in a goo. To con a phrase from Carl Sagans Book Contact “if there’s nobody out there well it’s certainly a big waste of space” Who knows maybe God was and Alien. (Good book by the way)

I also postulate that it’s strangely all connected in a synchronistic kind of way. It’s obvious that for most UFO Believers they require no proof. Sort of similar to those who have this “FAITH” and all the text in the Bible is the true word of GOD. You can’t see GOD, you can’t touch GOD, and we got no pictures or YouTube video of GOD. Oh but he’s defo real like….just take a leap of faith….nah, sorry not Kirky ever.

I also wonder what would happen to most religions if the super advanced Aliens landed all over the planet and confirmed to all people of Earth say that there was no God as we perceived him/her, and that our religions were in actual fact man-made to control us savages..”yep heres the proof folks, we been watching you’s guys since we spawned the Human species 2 odd million years ago. Sorry folks but your wrong about everything” Boy wouldn’t that be neat….

Mmmmmm I wonder also what kind of Chaos would ensue. Mass suicides, chaos and murder would be the norm I predict. So religion I suppose is a good thing for those that require it. Just the same as those that needs to believe in life out there.

Then you got the Hardliner skeptic, sort of like the Atheist who just refuses to believe, and thinks its all hogwash no matter what circumstantial evidence is put before him/her. Whose right and whose wrong….who’s left, right, North South…Who cares? Believe what you want to believe. Just don’t ram it down people’s throats. That should be the message. And it should be applied. Once a human mind has settled on its course it’s extremely hard to change it. Even if the proof is right in front of them so why waste effort/time trying to convert the other.

OK it maybe a give that the OP comes across as confrontational but..alas, I can and do sympathise with his frustrations. For me his comments ring very true to me regarding “more proof of UFO’s/ET than there is of Jesus Christ.” What seems to be wasteful is the notion of attempting to prove or disprove either. Your going to face brick walls in any direction regardless.

Your either one of 3 types regarding this issue.

1. Believer (UFO/ET exists without doubt)
2. Non Believer (Its all BS/Mis or Unidentified)
3. Pantheist (Don’t Know/Not sure/Give a crap)

Are you believer in UFO’s (theist) or non-believer (atheist) or like me are you sitting on the fence (sort of pantheist), who feels that the whole UFO/ET/GOD/Religion issue is deeper than we could ever imagine, and that we are just scraping the surface. Maybe you’re a different combination of the above. Maybe you believe in God AND UFO’s/ET, its applicable to just about anything that we are faced with on this Rock. Believe what you want to believe, if you don’t need proof well congrats. If you do need absolute proof, well congrats there too.

I for one am a pantheist on most contentious issues, and again I sincerely empathise with the OP. But I also empathise with the Skeptics. If there were no skeptics on this planet what turmoil we would have. We’d probably still be sacrificing Virgins to Dragons that lived in Volcanoes. There are similarities here concerning politicians, lawmakers and lawyers. We might hate them from time to time, but if we didn’t have them, then I’m sure this would be a very chaotic planet indeed.
Being confrontational with skeptics is just the same as being confrontational with a religious fundamentalist. You can’t win no matter how hard you try. Hate is wrong. I don’t need skeptics or religions to figure that out.

I certainly do NOT believe in any of Earths religions. I need no pacification, but I can respect the need to believe in something bigger than yourself. But butchering each other over it is not the way. I would rather believe that there’s UFO/ET’s and an abundance of life teeming in this Universe as opposed to a God sitting in a big chair in Heaven, that’s all seeing, all knowing, omnipotent with thunderbolts firing from his backside raining down on all us poor sinners. Are there UFOs/ET’s, Is there a GOD well I don’t know, that’s why I’m on the fence. "Continued"




posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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But as for evidence for either existing, you can debate and bounce this issue back and forth as much as you like.

I believe that religions are simply a construct of man in his narrow-vision view of this universe and the reality we find ourselves in. There is a lot more going on than I think we could ever imagine. Are UFO’s/ET real? Is GOD real? I think there’s more evidence for the former rather than the latter and I think that they are both connected somehow. As a growing human species we are similar to a spotty face cheeky adolescent teenager wont on uncaring destruction. Until we mature spiritually and stop murdering each other over religion power and control over this planet, and “GROW UP” as a species, I personally don’t think that ET will mass publicly disclose himself. I know I wouldn’t. Something like Star Treks Prime Directive would be in force. I mean com’n folks, do you not think that we would be viewed as murderous emotional savages by some alien species….and not worth bothering with at the minute.

So the battle continues without end in site. Atheist v Theist, believer’s v the Skeptics. You are all wrong and you are all right, but not even close. The resulting score will always be a draw, no score.

I wish they (Aliens, the good ones that is) would show up and end all this nonsense once and for all. Give us that super duper free energy and space travel, end all our stupid filthy wars and religious pacification requirements. But I suppose that’s a utopian pipe dream. I hope that’s their overall intention. I think they would do A BETTER JOB THAN ANY OF OUR RELIGIONS.

But I can dream cant I????
Is it ok to Believe in UFO/ET’s and not religion???
I will never try to convert you or anyone. I know what I believe deep down.
But you never REALLY know do ya.

Be good. Be at Peace People

Kirky



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by sechmet
 


see thats a problem for me. It doesnt matter what size, shape or colour its an alien spaceship in some peoples minds.

i saw an orangle circle of light which faded after a couple of minutes. to me its unidentified but i dont jump to the conclusion it was of ET origin.
Infact if what i saw is typical of what poeple are saying are ET crafts then i think they are wrong.

early ufology was so much clearer. Silver saucers = alien spaceships. Now its everything you cant ID is alien.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by yeti101]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by MrPenny
reply to post by silver6ix
 


Know what I think? I think you're very closely related to another poster, NoRunRichard......or, you are that person.

Sure would be nice if an admin could check some IPs.


Thats a typically immature comment. Some people need to grow up. Im sure the admin are quite capable of checking IPs if they choose to do so and would know this is the only IP I use.

Keep your wild immature claims to yourself.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by mrman81
I love threads like this. Anyway...

When you consider that a light year is 5880000000000 miles and our nearest star Proxima Centauri is 4.8 lightyears away from us its highly unlikely that we have had any species visit us here. Firstly they would have to know that we are here and after that they would have to get here.

Say i wanted to go to Proxima Centauri in a spaceship, it would take me 178,995 years with current technology. Is that fact not more convincing than a few grainy photos, vidoes, cgi and unreliable eye wintness statements?

I believe there are other lifeforms in the Universe but we will NEVER cross another species evolved highly as us. The distances which keep us apart are just too great simple as that!

If some of these photos and vids are genuine then it will be our own tech no Aliens.








why do people do this? why do people judge wether or not it would be possible to travel across space based on HUMAN technology and HUMAN knowledge and HUMAN understanding.

what so just because we are incapable at the moment, that must mean any other inteligent life out there must be unable to aswell?

you cannot even judge what other inteligent life out there is capable of based on human tech, knowledge, and understanding, that is our postion, not theirs.

edit to add: nobody knows their postion, how much knowledge they have, how advanced they are how evolved they are, so to base their technology and understanding on our own and say travel across space is impossible because humans cannot do it, is a little narrowminded.






[edit on 20-10-2008 by lifeform]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by InfaRedMan
 



doesnt look like a craft though does it? theres so many anomolies on the film and if your saying that is an object in the sky how big is it? maybe 2 feet max?

not very good sorry


Two feet, going by the size of concorde id say it was much larger than that.

Again theres no reason to assume its a craft but there no logic in assuming it couldnt be one either. You couldnt rationally expect every craft to be piloed, drones are very common in human flight, nor could you expect all alien life to be the size of humans.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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"When you consider that a light year is 5880000000000 miles and our nearest star Proxima Centauri is 4.8 lightyears away from us its highly unlikely that we have had any species visit us here. Firstly they would have to know that we are here and after that they would have to get here. "

Again this is an assumption based on human understanding at this time. If you went back 200 years im sure the idea of hopping on a plane to another country would be far fetched.


The point is we lack the technology and looking at what we have achieved in the last 100 years its easy to imagine what a species 1000 or more years older might have by now.

With the correct technology the travel from here to the nearest start could become momentary. As for finding us, im pretty sure any advanced species capable of space flight has asked the same question "are we alone" and has plenty of sciene ships, telescopes and exploration programs running to answer that question.

Anyone watching Earth from range telecsope based data would have plenty of indication of life during wars and nukes going off on this world. Its not really that far fetched at all.

We all ready have the curiousities which would motivate us to look, the only thing lacking is the technology and that is unlikely to be a limiting factor forever.

Given the age of the Universe compared to our little tiny chunk of it, its very hard to imagine there isnt life far older and far more advanced out there already looking.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:24 AM
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"nor could you expect all alien life to be the size of humans."

an excellent point, and something alot of people never seem to consider, as i have to point out in my post above, basically alot of people judge the possibility of aliens and the likelyhood based on human knowledge and human likeness.

they never consider the fact we could be ignorent in comparison to them. therefore we lack any understanding and call it impossible, just because we car'nt do it.

the size of inteligent alien life is also one of those things that people do the same with. we are this big on earth, it dos'nt mean the same must apply elsewhere.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by silver6ix
 


No really.....I think you are. Same "in your face" attitude. Very thin-skinned too.....



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by yeti101
 


see thats a problem for me. It doesnt matter what size, shape or colour its an alien spaceship in some peoples minds.


Yeti01,

It's not a 'spaceship' in my mind, it's unknown... as stated. That means as far as this footage is concerned, I'm on the fence. I've never heard a reasonable explanation as the Concorde was flying at supersonic speed. I can't say either way - but it is interesting nonetheless. Can you say in the absence of proof either way what it is?

That's why I'm asking if anyone else has further info on it - i.e to Deny Ignorance. Until we know that, it's probably prudent not to jump to conclusions.

IRM



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by MrPenny
reply to post by silver6ix
 


No really.....I think you are. Same "in your face" attitude. Very thin-skinned too.....



Yes? Welcome to the ignore button. Ive no patience for rude kids.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix

Originally posted by MrPenny
reply to post by silver6ix
 


No really.....I think you are. Same "in your face" attitude. Very thin-skinned too.....



Yes? Welcome to the ignore button. Ive no patience for rude kids.


Oh C'mon kids, "Cant we all just get along"
Behave or else no trick or treats for you


Peace
Kirky



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by lifeform
 


I base my decision on the facts. NOTHING can travel faster than light speed, probably not even attain 10% lightspeed! It would require infinite energy which is IMPOSSIBLE!

And if it was possible somehow, i dont think they would come here to float around in our atmosphere and then bugger off again. We would know about it.

But its all a conspiracy aint it, its all a cover up lol!!



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by silver6ix
 


Do you not consider that there is a limit to what can be developed technologically? You say we are advancing now but are we? No we arn't we are just reinventing and upgrading current technology. Not many new discoveries or developments.



[edit on 20-10-2008 by mrman81]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by kirky

Originally posted by silver6ix

Originally posted by MrPenny
reply to post by silver6ix
 


No really.....I think you are. Same "in your face" attitude. Very thin-skinned too.....



Yes? Welcome to the ignore button. Ive no patience for rude kids.


Oh C'mon kids, "Cant we all just get along"
Behave or else no trick or treats for you


Peace
Kirky


Its much easier to just put certain people on ignore, they have nothing I want to read to post anyway so why waste time and space reading it?


Problem solved, thats what the button is there for. Ill discuss anything with muture sensible people but the net has plenty of people ive no interest in talking with.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by silver6ix
 


I love this guy!!!! I wish more people responded to others with this level of sensitivity, insight, and empathy. What an inspiration to others!!!!

Alright, I'll go now.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix

Originally posted by kirky

Originally posted by silver6ix

Originally posted by MrPenny
reply to post by silver6ix
 


No really.....I think you are. Same "in your face" attitude. Very thin-skinned too.....



Yes? Welcome to the ignore button. Ive no patience for rude kids.


Oh C'mon kids, "Cant we all just get along"
Behave or else no trick or treats for you


Peace
Kirky


Its much easier to just put certain people on ignore, they have nothing I want to read to post anyway so why waste time and space reading it?


Problem solved, thats what the button is there for. Ill discuss anything with mature sensible people but the net has plenty of people ive no interest in talking with.


That is agreeable.
Peace
Kirky



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by silver6ix
 


Does this include people that don't agree with your opinions by any chance?



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by mrman81
reply to post by silver6ix
 


Does this include people that don't agree with your opinions by any chance?


There are plenty people, mature people, who have differing opinions and I have no problem with them. What I wont do is waste my time of pedantic uninformed kids with nothing better to do with their time than sit on a UFO board trying to cause arguments with their skepticism. You have to wonder why some of them are here in the first place save to look for arguments.

If you choose to not ignore them, thats your choice. Ill make my choice on the matter and my choice is to ignore people whose immaturity is far below anything I can be bothered with.

Im sorry but "neener neener you must be x or y, check his IP" is the comment of a two year old." Seen it before a million times on the net and I know the best solution for it.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by silver6ix]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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Coincidently people theres a good show on C2C with George Noory and Jim Marrs for all you listeners/subscribers which talks about all issues at hand here, UFO's Aliens, GOD, disclosure/media, the whole box of Frogs..good listen

Peace people
Kirky

www.coasttocoastam.com...
Wednesday October 15th, 2008
Listen: Windows Media Real Media
Evidence for G.O.D.
University of Arizona professor of psychology and neurology Dr. Gary Schwartz shared how he used science to conclude that nothing happens by chance and that some kind of organizing process must exist. Referring to this process as G.O.D. (Guiding-Organizing-Designing),... more >>
Host: George Noory
Guest(s): Gary Schwartz, Jim Marrs



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