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This is for all the `ufo skeptics` must read

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posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
Yes ALL military ARE under agreement. Fact, proven and uncontested in any way shape or form.


NOT fact. I was in the military as both an officer and as enlisted, and I can assure you we were not handed non-disclosure agreements in any way, shape or form regarding these matters. You obviously don't understand what need to know means, or how incredibly high up the chain this sort of information would lie.



Again anyone mature or open minded enough would know from history alone that people breaking oath and coming forward or people being shown during investigations to have witheld or been order to withold based on non disclosure is very common.


That's not the point being disputed. You're using what's common as an excuse to say that any alien existence MUST be covered up. This may be reasonable to assume, but it's hardly fact, and frankly what's childish here is your ad hominem attacks on anyone who disputes your logic.




posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by riggs2099
reply to post by silver6ix
 


Easy...why so serious
No need to get angry...I am just offering speculation. If coming forward with classified info is a crime then why have these ex military personall not been arrested..hmmmm. Probably because there is nothing to it.


Really, they are going to come forward an arrest American Heros for breaching a non disclosure act based on UFO disclosure when they deny it?

Obviously not, that would simply confirm there was information to be disclosed and validate the claim.

You are offering stupidity based on stupidity without any consideration of facts. Do you think all personal would have access to that type of information? Clearly not only very carefully vetted, selected and cleared people would and they are investigated and checked thoroughly for suitability for any high level of classification.

High level disclosure is exceptionally rare mostly because the types of people who have this access are not the type of person who would be telling you about it, they are generally people of very high loyalty to the organisation and the types who follow orders and adhere to policies without question.

Its not about them lying its about them following orders and adhering to strict and serious agreements on non disclosure of classified data. Any lower ranked person who stumbled across any classified data would be debriefed and reminded in no uncertain terms of their duty and their agreements and in most cases, soldiers follow orders as do most personel within organisations such as the military.

So no, the fact that people do not comment doesnt mean they are liars it means they follow orders and stick to their agreements, standard behavior for military types and politicians. They dont get to where they are by being fragile minded and willing to divulge secrets to the public.

Again im not sure why I waste my time because anyone with a shred of common sense knows this, its standard behavior and common knowldege.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
Its not about them lying its about them following orders and adhering to strict and serious agreements on non disclosure of classified data. Any lower ranked person who stumbled across any classified data would be debriefed and reminded in no uncertain terms of their duty and their agreements and in most cases, soldiers follow orders as do most personel within organisations such as the military.


This is laughable. Trust me, if such highly classified information exists, you're not going to have lower ranking persons accidentally "stumble" upon it.

The point you're not getting is how circular and self-supporting your logic is. You have NO evidence for these things, and yet claim that that evidence would be hidden and covered up by the government. Why? Because that's just what the government would do. You're walking both lines of the fence as well. First you want to cite all the "official" people who have come forward and treat their word as the truth, but then you turn around and claim that those who come forward and disagree must be lying because of nondisclosure agreements.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by thrashee

Originally posted by silver6ix
Yes ALL military ARE under agreement. Fact, proven and uncontested in any way shape or form.


NOT fact. I was in the military as both an officer and as enlisted, and I can assure you we were not handed non-disclosure agreements in any way, shape or form regarding these matters. You obviously don't understand what need to know means, or how incredibly high up the chain this sort of information would lie.



Now thats funny. Its in your standard contract for all US military personell, next time read the #ing thing before you sign it


ALL military personal are bound by LAW on classified information, im pretty sure 99.9999999999999% of people can confirm that for you very easily. Its hardly a secret, pun intended.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by thrashee

Originally posted by silver6ix
Its not about them lying its about them following orders and adhering to strict and serious agreements on non disclosure of classified data. Any lower ranked person who stumbled across any classified data would be debriefed and reminded in no uncertain terms of their duty and their agreements and in most cases, soldiers follow orders as do most personel within organisations such as the military.


This is laughable. Trust me, if such highly classified information exists, you're not going to have lower ranking persons accidentally "stumble" upon it.

The point you're not getting is how circular and self-supporting your logic is. You have NO evidence for these things, and yet claim that that evidence would be hidden and covered up by the government. Why? Because that's just what the government would do. You're walking both lines of the fence as well. First you want to cite all the "official" people who have come forward and treat their word as the truth, but then you turn around and claim that those who come forward and disagree must be lying because of nondisclosure agreements.




Really? Thats funny because I know of several incidents when classified and sensitive data has been lost on laptops, stolen, left in petrol stations and left on trains. Maybe you live on another planet.

Such highly classified research does exist, doesnt have to be alien but high level classified infiormation exists in ALL military, again any person would know this and only a very pedantic and childish person would try to suggest it doesnt


As for no evidence, the whole plaent has evidence. If a military or unidentified craft crashed on US soil OF COURSE the military would have juristiction and of course it would be classified. It would be dealt with under "national security". Do you know anything about your own country I wonder?

You seriously think if a military or unknown ship crashed in the US it would be handled by the public law enforcement?


Anyone who doesnt understand the very basics of national security and classified information shouldnt bother talking about it.

You know under Reg AR-530-1, you cannot even post information deemed SENSITIVE (which is not classified under national security) on a web blog without being arrested and charged by the military? Again, PROVEN in 2005 during the Gulf war when AR-530-1, was amended to include sensitive information and the rule was enacted.

Go get some facts and then talk.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by silver6ix]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
Now thats funny. Its in your standard contract for all US military personell, next time read the #ing thing before you sign it



Um, I'm referencing any sort of nondisclosure regarding UFO cover ups. As I said earlier, if there really is a UFO cover up, I assure you such a small population of the government would know about it, so my point still stands: you are erroneously trying to use nondisclosure to debunk those officials who have stated there is nothing to it, while you are ignoring nondisclosure for those who state otherwise. The fact that the classified system exists DOES NOT PROVE that there is anything, in fact, to cover up regarding UFOs.

Thanks for trying to inform me about a topic, however, that I'm quite sure you have absolutely NO firsthand knowledge about.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
Really? Thats funny because I know of several incidents when classified and sensitive data has been lost on laptops, stolen, left in petrol stations and left on trains. Maybe you live on another planet.


But I thought this was your grand daddy of all cover ups. Do you in fact know the import of the majority of classified information? Trust me, it's hardly as romantic as you might have everything believe. In a lot of cases I've wondered why it was classified at all.



Such highly classified research does exist, doesnt have to be alien but high level classified infiormation exists in ALL military, again any person would know this and only a very pedantic and childish person would try to suggest it doesnt



It does? And how do you know this, since it's so classified and no one is telling? Your continual reliance on ad homs to bully anyone disagreeing with you is shameful, and does not help your logic.



As for no evidence, the whole plaent has evidence. If a military or unidentified craft crashed on US soil OF COURSE the military would have juristiction and of course it would be classified. It would be dealt with under "national security". Do you know anything about your own country I wonder?


The whole planet is evidence? Huh? Just because you say "ought" and "of course" does not make it fact. You are still relying on conjecture here. Try again with some FACTS.




You seriously think if a military or unknown ship crashed in the US it would be handled by the public law enforcement?



It doesn't matter what I think, nor what you think. I'm concerned with fact, while you are concerned with shouting to everyone, "it's all so obvious, so it must be true."



Anyone who doesnt understand the very basics of national security and classified information shouldnt bother talking about it.


I'm afraid you didn't read what I stated very well before. But that's ok, you're arguing a straw man right now. Have fun with that.



You know under Reg AR-530-1, you cannot even post information deemed SENSITIVE (which is not classified under national security) on a web blog without being arrested and charged by the military? Again, PROVEN in 2005 during the Gulf war when AR-530-1, was amended to include sensitive information and the rule was enacted.


Again, a straw man. Go read what I was actually arguing before belching up regulations.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by thrashee

Originally posted by silver6ix
Now thats funny. Its in your standard contract for all US military personell, next time read the #ing thing before you sign it



Um, I'm referencing any sort of nondisclosure regarding UFO cover ups. As I said earlier, if there really is a UFO cover up, I assure you such a small population of the government would know about it, so my point still stands: you are erroneously trying to use nondisclosure to debunk those officials who have stated there is nothing to it, while you are ignoring nondisclosure for those who state otherwise. The fact that the classified system exists DOES NOT PROVE that there is anything, in fact, to cover up regarding UFOs.

Thanks for trying to inform me about a topic, however, that I'm quite sure you have absolutely NO firsthand knowledge about.


It doesnt matter WHAT it refers to the documents and information are marked CLASSIFIED and as long as thats the case you are BOUND to adhere to it.

ANY project or information classified under the US classifications system CANNOT be discussed or revealed under law.

Not even by a civil citizen with NO association or contractual agreement, you sitting there at your computer right now are bound to keep national secrets, upheld by your own courts in 2006. You by law cannot reveal or discuss anything marked classified. (US vs Rosen, 2006)

This for the simple means you have the equivalent of the UK Official Secrets Act which binds civilians as well as military


I did not say it proved anything I am answering your childish position that because most people dont comment thats obviously because they are telling the truth, when in fact there is an established and siple reason for why most people would not discuss any classified matter, its called LAW.

You would only get EXCEPTIONs to the rule. (those are the ones you call nut jobs)

As for conjecture, who handled Roswell? Who has handled every suspected UFO or unknown object crash....ohh the military again anyone but a child would know it was a fact.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by silver6ix]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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Im done wasting my time discussing serious matters with a couple of childish people with no knowledge of their own country


Someone who didnt know there was a secrets act and didnt know that the US military has handled every single non civilian crash in US history shouldnt be talking.

I thinkanyone whos ever heard of Roswell or any other major "ufo" crash would know its handled by the military ALWAYS not local police.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by silver6ix]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
It doesnt matter WHAT it refers to the documents and information are marked CLASSIFIED and as long as thats the case you are BOUND to adhere to it.


I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing your position that because of that, anyone in the military or government who says there is nothing to it MUST be lying. They must not, because your conclusion presupposes your whole angle: that there is anything to classify to begin with.

Get it? While your little tirades about how childish everyone is have been entertaining, and while your lectures on the US government have been grandiose, your logic is still flawed.





[edit on 20-10-2008 by thrashee]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
Someone who didnt know there was a secrets act and didnt know that the US military has handled every single non civilian crash in US history shouldnt be talking.


I never said there wasn't such a thing. Again, you misunderstood my point. But lovely how you're trying to spin that now as though I'm the one who is ignorant. Childish indeed.



I thinkanyone whos ever heard of Roswell or any other major "ufo" crash would know its handled by the military ALWAYS not local police.


More bad logic from across the pond. ONE incident does not ALWAYS make, besides which, here again you are presupposing that Roswell was, in fact, a UFO crash.

Try again with more of your brilliant logic.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:53 AM
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Thrashee, grow up, learn some facts and then waste my time.

You have agrued and been shown a mug over and over.

You claimed soldiers werent bound to keep secrets...false.

You claimed there was no evidence of military authority over unknown object crashes or military crashes...false proven in more cases than any person could possibly count.

You claimed I said everyone who ddint come forward was lying...flagrant lie.

Ive said time and time again i dont not believe conspiracy theory, but then again a child wouldnt grasp that, insead they woudl invent, lie and make a fool of themsleves.


Well done, come back in ten years when you are ready. And just to kill it, welcome to the ignore button, ive no more desire to read your stupidity.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by silver6ix]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
You claimed soldiers werent bound to keep secrets...false.


Nope, I hardly said that. Do I need to clarify this again for you, or are you such an adult that you'll simply plug your ears and cry, "I can't hear you"?



You claimed there was no evidence of military authority over unknown object crashes or military crashes...false proven in more cases than any person could possibly count.


Nope, again I did not state that. You have a reading comprehension problem, don't you? I'm sorry, but Roswell is not "more cases than one could count". And besides which, AGAIN, you need to somehow prove these "military responses" were responses to UFO crashes. Good luck with that.

Oh no....did you iggy me? Now who is childish?



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 02:28 AM
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reply to post by silver6ix
 


silver6ix, it appears that as soon as someone finds a flaw in your logic/argument, you immediately deflect the focus to something else or conveniently ignore it entirely. Perhaps it wouldn't not be so noticeable if you didn't resort to it so often!

Why do all the rebuttals to your posts have stars yet yours don't? Perhaps if anyones been shown to be a mug, it's you! .. I don't know.. just putting it out there mate! The Stars would suggest that thrashee whooped your butt!

IRM



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by silver6ix

Originally posted by thrashee

Originally posted by silver6ix
Yes ALL military ARE under agreement. Fact, proven and uncontested in any way shape or form.


NOT fact. I was in the military as both an officer and as enlisted, and I can assure you we were not handed non-disclosure agreements in any way, shape or form regarding these matters. You obviously don't understand what need to know means, or how incredibly high up the chain this sort of information would lie.



Now thats funny. Its in your standard contract for all US military personell, next time read the #ing thing before you sign it


ALL military personal are bound by LAW on classified information, im pretty sure 99.9999999999999% of people can confirm that for you very easily. Its hardly a secret, pun intended.


Actually hes right there is no non disclosure agreement in the military. However when When reading any need to know information its classified national security which means can be tried for treason. But when you get a security clearance you dont sign anything. And security clearances change all the time mine switched several times without me knowing goes back to that need to know.

So you cant say the only people who have access is a select group either . Sometimes just being in a paticular place gives you a need to know. Security clearances in the military arent complicated you are given secret and it changes when the need arises.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by thrashee

Originally posted by silver6ix
You claimed soldiers werent bound to keep secrets...false.


Nope, I hardly said that. Do I need to clarify this again for you, or are you such an adult that you'll simply plug your ears and cry, "I can't hear you"?



You claimed there was no evidence of military authority over unknown object crashes or military crashes...false proven in more cases than any person could possibly count.


Nope, again I did not state that. You have a reading comprehension problem, don't you? I'm sorry, but Roswell is not "more cases than one could count". And besides which, AGAIN, you need to somehow prove these "military responses" were responses to UFO crashes. Good luck with that.

Oh no....did you iggy me? Now who is childish?

If a ufo crashed it would fall under the jurisdiction of The National Security Agency. The military would not be able to act until receiving orders from the NSA. And now it would fall under the jurisdiction of home land security. But reality is the 1st people on the seen would be the national transportation and safety admin because they would assume its an aircraft. So again your showing a lack of knowledge on government procedures. Military would secure the area and wait until govt sent a representative .



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 02:55 AM
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It would be childish to point the question about the "non-disclosure agreement" as anything related to the National Security is under the Agreement within a military personnel.

So, clearly the evidence of disclosure is related to the national Security as ANY presence of "alien evidence" - because of "alien evidence" can be easy translated to the "russian evidence" for example

So, I do not understand the point of view the "military personnel" who posts here


Just a piece of s**t, a "flame war", usually seemed to be a "forum wars"

If you deny ignorance, you cannot be an ignorant !



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by serbsta
Very nicely layed out, i dont think the question is whether UFO's exist or not, ofcourse they exist, i think the question is who is operating these objects, humans, or extraterrestrials. There lies the question.


I totally agree with you.
Ufo's does not mean ALIENS,there's a big difference you see.
I think none of the skeptics (and i consider myself a skeptic) is deying the UFO phenomenon ,we just dont have no proof at all that the ufo's are of ALIEN origin.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 03:45 AM
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Just because something is shown on a major channel making it into prime time we have to beleive it? They are riding the UFO hype to make a buck as well. It's such a lucrative business. Shame they didn't show the E.T. cereal add just after that report.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by weneedtoknow
This is for skeptics of the et/ufo phenomena you better read and read good because ive had just about enough of you insulting our intelligence!
.
.
.

So yes go ahead.. imature skeptics, take one or two of the words i say.. quote it and try and attack me... but at the end of the day, you know in your heart of hearts that these extra terrestrial crafts DO exist and thats all what matters!


Learn the difference between adjectives and adverbs. (Hint: Good is an adjective, well is an adverb.)
Learn how to spell. (Another hint, immature has two m's and the pronoun I is always capitalized)
Learn the rules concerning punctuation.
You did not silence us, we were to busy laughing at this ludicrous post.

I realize that you are only in middle school, but people will take you more seriously when you spell correctly and learn how to write effectively.

Your immature rant does not prove ANYTHING. When you get older take a Logic course. It will help you to assess evidence and claims. It will also help you form arguments. Take a few science courses as well.

Clear Thinker



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