It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

This is for all the `ufo skeptics` must read

page: 11
29
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 09:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by silver6ix
Yes of course, whatever.


Then I was not substituting one crackpot theory for another, now was I?




posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 10:01 PM
link   
Id call CIA report a crackpot theory, maybe you wouldnt.

Asking the CIA about UFOs is the same as asking Blosson Goodchild or the Prophet of Yahweh about them.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 10:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
And considering Sagan's contributions to science, learning, and the fact he believed there should be serious scientific study of the UFO phenomenon, you might want to reconsider your attacks on him. Especially since he was far smarter and contributed more to the human race than most of can even dream of.


Yeah like his idea to Nuke the Moon to see if they could stir up organic matter




posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 10:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
And considering Sagan's contributions to science, learning, and the fact he believed there should be serious scientific study of the UFO phenomenon, you might want to reconsider your attacks on him. Especially since he was far smarter and contributed more to the human race than most of can even dream of.


Yeah like his idea to Nuke the Moon to see if they could stir up organic matter



Really?



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 10:17 PM
link   
i can see this from both sides of the arguement, but i really do not understand why everybody is obsessed with the alien part.

u.f.o's being alien craft is just one of the possibilities, that dos'nt mean they are. its the same as those who speculate they are space debris or ice particles, they are just possibilities, but nobody knows for sure(unless you have been face to face with an alien that is, but then who would believe them, their word for it will not satisfy sceptics, or if you go into space yourself and took samples of the ice particles, afterall nasa could be covering up so their word for it will not satisfy believers).

my point is saying they are alien craft with no proof, is just the same as speculating they are space debris or ice particles or a man on a hill with a torch with no proof.

both sides do it. both sides speculate in a way that agrees with their already formed belief prior to seeing the information or footage.

both sides are gulity of speculating with no proof.

the only way to know what these u.f.o's are is to investigate what they are.
and admit when you don't have the answers. however the average person does not have the means to do so in a way that they could offer 100% tangible proof.

so some of it is partly trust, and this is where both sides are wary of each other. believers think sceptics are denying the truth, and sceptics think everybody are potential hoaxes, or saw something they just thought was a u.f.o.

neither side is wrong for doing so, but the discussions always end up going around in circles. nothing will change anybodys postion untill we know what these u.f.o's ARE. that dos'nt mean a random guess at what it COULD be.

as for what evidence it would take to convince sceptics? nothing will ever be good enough for all, there are always reasons that can be given not to believe the evidence put forward.

the only way is seeing something unexplainable with your own eyes. i'd imagine it does'nt happen ALL the time, not many see something, going by my own experience. ive only ever seen something once, and i was'nt looking for it, it was by surprise and ive seen nothing since even though i look up all the time since.

but IMO something like that is the only thing that would get people to take the alien possibilitly a little more seriously.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 10:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by silver6ix
Asking the CIA about UFOs is the same as asking Blosson Goodchild or the Prophet of Yahweh about them.


That is a mischaracterization of the purposes of the Robertson Panel. It was not commissioned to satisfy any public curiousity or questions about UFOs. Rather, it was an internal investigation, never meant for public consumption, of whether the phenomenon was a threat to national security. The findings were classified for a long time.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 10:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by silver6ix
Asking the CIA about UFOs is the same as asking Blosson Goodchild or the Prophet of Yahweh about them.


That is a mischaracterization of the purposes of the Robertson Panel. It was not commissioned to satisfy any public curiousity or questions about UFOs. Rather, it was an internal investigation, never meant for public consumption, of whether the phenomenon was a threat to national security. The findings were classified for a long time.


Or maybe it was a faked report released for a purpose internal or external, or a false report designed to pacify politicians like Blue Book?

The point is the report, as is common with anything involving the CIA, is steeped in lies and intrigue. Neither you nor I will ever know the truth or lack of it, in anything coming out of the CIA. The CIA are professional grade A liars, its what they do, like I said, id put as much stock in the Prophet of Yahweh as I would in the CIA and anything that comes from them.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 10:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by zorgon
Yeah like his idea to Nuke the Moon to see if they could stir up organic matter



Really?


Yes and no.

During the 1950s, the Air Force was considering detonating nuclear weapons on the Moon in a show of force to the Soviets. Sagan was recruited into the project to study how the mushroom cloud and fallout would be affected by the Moon's lower gravity. He suggested if the project were carried out, we would be able to examine the resulting mushroom cloud for any organic material.

While Sagan was part of the project, he was not the one who came up with the idea of detonating nuclear weapons on the moon.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 10:57 PM
link   
Hello Skeptics and Believers....

I was in Auckland New Zealand, when a friend pointed out to me there were some lights in the Sky moving around, I stood in amazement as I watched the most unbeleiveable manouvers were taking place... (Much like that "bog standard" intertwining pinpoints of light interacting UFO's you see on the net...)

I stopped people off the street to look at it, and also got two police officers to look at it.

I said to the police (as they are more verifiable then people off the street...) to ask them that what they were are looking are objects in the sky... Reply : Yes.

Can you tell me what they are ?

Reply : No.

So your'e saying It's a flying obect you cant Identify them ??

Reply : Yes.

Unidentified Flying Object then aye ?

Reply..... : Yeah... I guess....

20 + people from the public, and two Police officers.....

It's nearly enough for me to say Yip, it's real, I've followed the topic almost since I was 14 (34 now) , and yet, I am filled with doubt... I think that they could be Earth Based Technologies, and I also think they "could be" Alien...

I've had three UFOsightings in my life, but I'm still in two minds about who's behind the technology... (Back Engineered Tech or real Alien craft..)

I've also had New Zealand Civil Aviation Staff and NZ Pilots tell me that they have also seens things which they cannot explain.

I WANT TO BELIEVE... I just can't get enough evidence to say YES to all the people that ridiculed me over the years, and say.. HAHA I told you so...

I hope ATS builds that path for me... It's getting pretty close

I Don't necessarly need more proof because I'm a believer that there is evidence "they" are and have been here, and elsewhere for a long time.

(P.S, I'm worried about 2012...)

Thanks for reading this post..






[edit on 19-10-2008 by hmistry]



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 11:00 PM
link   
Some people are so out of touch its humorous and tragic all at the same time ...... keep on posting your arguments to every single alternative opinion that comes out , i guess thats what you do for fun

im not an idiot and telling me i need evidence to believe in aliens is insulting my intelligence , i dont need anyone to tell me what or how to think , especially people who just love to argue but really dont do a damn thing except go in circles.

its almost painful to post on these boards with such idiots abroad , now im just waiting for someone to say im the idiot because i believe i something w/o so called "proof"

just like i cant prove i have a soul , but i know for a FACT that i do and anyone who is dumb enough to deny all the endless possibilites in life can go ahead and jump off a cliff and quit wasting my air , ok ?



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 11:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by zorgon
Yeah like his idea to Nuke the Moon to see if they could stir up organic matter



Really?


Yes and no.

During the 1950s, the Air Force was considering detonating nuclear weapons on the Moon in a show of force to the Soviets. Sagan was recruited into the project to study how the mushroom cloud and fallout would be affected by the Moon's lower gravity. He suggested if the project were carried out, we would be able to examine the resulting mushroom cloud for any organic material.

While Sagan was part of the project, he was not the one who came up with the idea of detonating nuclear weapons on the moon.


Ya, checked it out.

link

Gotta luv the internet age.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 11:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by EliteLegends
im not an idiot and telling me i need evidence to believe in aliens is insulting my intelligence , i dont need anyone to tell me what or how to think


Yes, you are clearly quite mature and have it all figured out.

No one gives a hoot what you believe, as long as you're honest enough to recognize that your beliefs are nothing more than just that. See the difference?



its almost painful to post on these boards with such idiots abroad


I just choked on a bone of irony here.



just like i cant prove i have a soul , but i know for a FACT that i do and anyone who is dumb enough to deny all the endless possibilites in life can go ahead and jump off a cliff and quit wasting my air , ok ?


And there I was believing how intelligent you were. It is quite simply impossible for you to know as a fact that you have a soul. Period. Please learn the difference between belief, faith, and fact, and maybe you'll actually understand what all of us mean when we reference things like evidence and proof.

No one is denying a possibility. We're just not as quick as you to claim a possibility is FACT without supporting evidence for that. If you don't understand this most basic of principles, I think you're the one wasting your own air.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 11:50 PM
link   
reply to post by EliteLegends
 


Would you like some cheese with that wine
. Your a close minded fool and those are the believers that no one cares about. You refuse to see that there are alternative theories to the alien hypothesis. Stop acting like a child who has gotten his feelings hurt and just leave the discussion if you think we are idiots who don't know what we are talking about. We know where you stand and when we offer other logical possibilities, you cry about us forcing you to change your mind. We never stated once that what we show you are the only answers and that you should believe it. As said before...Stating something is true is not the same as proving it as fact...you only gave us your opinion, which is all ufology is based on right now.

[edit on 19-10-2008 by riggs2099]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:20 AM
link   
Proof is something you have to find for yourself and to do that you have to be willing to look with an open mind and evaluate, not automatically dismiss by the qickest convenient reason.

Proof in terms of physical proof is something you will never have. If an alien ship crashed it would be confiscated by the government. The few ships that might crash arent going to be left to sit in TV studios and you local university or shopping mall. It would be swept up and called a weather balloon and taken for analysis.

If seeing one yourself is the proof, then get off your backside and go look. Take a couple of cameras and a night sight IR filter and go camping or sit on your balcony and film a couple of nights a week. Or just watch the skies.

If thats the proof people need then you can imagine we require 6billion people each to see their own personal UFO, its going to take some time.

Plenty ex astronauts, ex military, ex NASA people have said they have seen them and have stated that the information was suppressed so the fact there is some form of unexplained phenomenon is a no brainer and that becomes more and more apparent even amid the reams of hoaxes.

What they are? Until people start to take the phenomenon seriously and coirdinate a spotting effort start getting high quality professional footage, comparing density, scale, speeds, form shapes, locations, times and patterns we are always going to be chasing shadows.

If they are "alien life" they have no desire to announce themselves and they are going on with whatever it is they are doing irrespective of what we want or think.

If the subject had been taken seriously years ago, then by now we would most likely have good quality professional footage from around the world. Shapes, styles, and timings and be able to study the phenomenon for further patterns and indicators.

One thing is for sure, the science field isnt going to do it so its down to joe public to figure it out. With the internet theres no reason a few thousand people world wide couldnt work together, each filming with quality cameras in their own cities or countries a couple of nights per week. Images could be analysed and verified easily and no time wasted on hoax debunking. Then we might actually start to make progress on this phenomenon and see what the UFOs actually are.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by silver6ix
Plenty ex astronauts, ex military, ex NASA people have said they have seen them and have stated that the information was suppressed so the fact there is some form of unexplained phenomenon is a no brainer and that becomes more and more apparent even amid the reams of hoaxes.


What about all the ex astronauts, ex military, ex NASA people who have said there is nothing to it. Oh riiiiight...they are covering it up....The holey grail of excuses for believers. The believers...only pick and choose what is convenient for them. They believe and use ex...military...etc...but will call another ex military...etc...liars for not going along with thier beliefs.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by riggs2099]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by riggs2099

Originally posted by silver6ix
Plenty ex astronauts, ex military, ex NASA people have said they have seen them and have stated that the information was suppressed so the fact there is some form of unexplained phenomenon is a no brainer and that becomes more and more apparent even amid the reams of hoaxes.


What abouty all the ex astronauts, ex military, ex NASA people who have said there is nothing to it. Oh riiiiight...they are covering it up....The holey grail of excuses for believers.


You know that they are all bound by non disclosure agreements?


Dick Cheyney was once asked whether he had ever been briefed on UFOs his answer was "If I had it would be classified and I wouldnt say anything about it."

Not everyone is going to come forward so you might as well forget that, its the same in standard military cases, political investigations, investigations into corporate corruption so im not sure what you are getting at. Silence under code or rule is a very well established fact.

All you latest post proves is how pedantic you choose to be. If you cant find evidence of people adhering to non disclosure in history as a rule, you really should study more.

PS In standard examples many of these people would have been called "whistle blowers" and called to give states evidence as key witnesses. Strange that if the information thy "whistle blow" on doesnt suit someones mind, they are automatically liars or cranks

[edit on 20-10-2008 by silver6ix]

[edit on 20-10-2008 by silver6ix]


[edit on 20-10-2008 by silver6ix]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:49 AM
link   
reply to post by silver6ix
 


Could we not say that about your examples. Could they not be part of the governments plan of disinfo. So all ex military who say they is nothing to it...are under the agreement. You have no idea..its only a theory..but since we're dealing in theories...let's say all the ex military that come forward are under orders to spread disinfo. I mean my theory is as valid as yours...because we are only specualting.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by riggs2099
reply to post by silver6ix
 


Could we not say that about your examples. Could they not be part of the governments plan of disinfo. So all ex military who say they is nothing to it...are under the agreement. You have no idea..its only a theory..but since we're dealing in theories...let's say all the ex military that come forward are under orders to spread disinfo. I mean my theory is as valid as yours...because we are only specualting.


No, im speculating you are acting like a child.

Yes ALL military ARE under agreement. Fact, proven and uncontested in any way shape or form.

Again anyone mature or open minded enough would know from history alone that people breaking oath and coming forward or people being shown during investigations to have witheld or been order to withold based on non disclosure is very common.

You know its a crime to disclose classified information now dont you? NO organisation, not police, not army, not military, not navy, will have a huge % of people willing to disclose that information or break that code. Again, common knowledge.

In any situation you would only ever get a few again its been shown time and time again, in wars, in investigations into Gitmo, into a million other scenarios. Official personal in most cases as a rule adhere to their non disclosure agreements and only a very childish person looking for an excuse to fabricate an argument would try to make a case of it.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:58 AM
link   
reply to post by silver6ix
 


Easy...why so serious
No need to get angry...I am just offering speculation. If coming forward with classified info is a crime then why have these ex military personall not been arrested..hmmmm. Probably because there is nothing to it.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by silver6ix
Proof is something you have to find for yourself and to do that you have to be willing to look with an open mind and evaluate, not automatically dismiss by the qickest convenient reason.

Proof in terms of physical proof is something you will never have. If an alien ship crashed it would be confiscated by the government. The few ships that might crash arent going to be left to sit in TV studios and you local university or shopping mall. It would be swept up and called a weather balloon and taken for analysis.

If seeing one yourself is the proof, then get off your backside and go look. Take a couple of cameras and a night sight IR filter and go camping or sit on your balcony and film a couple of nights a week. Or just watch the skies.

If thats the proof people need then you can imagine we require 6billion people each to see their own personal UFO, its going to take some time.

Plenty ex astronauts, ex military, ex NASA people have said they have seen them and have stated that the information was suppressed so the fact there is some form of unexplained phenomenon is a no brainer and that becomes more and more apparent even amid the reams of hoaxes.

What they are? Until people start to take the phenomenon seriously and coirdinate a spotting effort start getting high quality professional footage, comparing density, scale, speeds, form shapes, locations, times and patterns we are always going to be chasing shadows.>>>


You know, some people have been doing this kind of investigation for quite some time. Quite a few statistics exist, based on a number of reports that have been seriously investigated and evaluated. There are many unexplained incidents and recorded data and phenomena. Are they extraterrestrial? Maybe some are; maybe some aren't. I doubt there's a single explanation.

However, any way you look at the phenomena, about 90% of things, such as lights, smears in the sky, glints of sunlight, that people see in the sky are explainable -- they're birds, atmospheric phenomena, aircraft, swamp gas, weather balloons. Twice I saw things I was certain were UFOs, and both times they turned out to be aircraft. In one case it was aircraft flying unusually low with bizarre and non-regulation lights, but clearly identifiable as aircraft. You have to keep an open mind -- yeah, even when the truth is disappointing.

It doesn't matter what anyone "believes." It really doesn't. All that matters is what can be proven. If I believe in Santa Claus, does that mean he exists?






Again, the subject HAS been taken seriously. Take a look at Bruce Maccabbee's web site, for one example. Have you read the work of Jacque Vallee? MUFON continues to do some serious investigations.



new topics

top topics



 
29
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in

join