Middle America Nationalism

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posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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Why is it that when I question my government, Mr Bush and the lies of Washington Im labelled unpatriotic? Anti american?

Who has the right to question my love for my country when I question the actions of my government?

I am sick to death of these hypocrites, the vast majority of them from the right, telling me Im un-american because I choose to stand up and question the LIES of the government! Who the hell are you tto ell me Im unamerican? Who the hell are you tell me Im unpatriotic?

I want troops out of this oil war, does this make me anti-american?

I want a change in direction for this nation, does this make me unpatriotic?

I find it real funny that the Republicans act as if their the only damn americans in this nation. The arrogance coming from these individuals is just astounding, and when I hear talk of "individual freedom"or ""pro-american" from the right, it makes me sick to the stomache, because I know damn well thats just a sack of BS.

Anbody including the media who is critical of the right, lets just label them all "liberal media"and turn the other cheeck, because we dont want to listen to the TRUTH. The media aint perfect, but this attitude of getting all worked up and labelling every damn new source besides fox as liberal bias is just pathetic, it really is, its denial at its worst.

So Republicans think their the only damn patriots in this country? Well lets see here:

-Dont question the Republican government or else your anti-american.

-When you oppose the Iraq war, your anti-troops and your anti-patriotic. So I should just sit along and believe in everything the government tells me, so long as their the republicans with "christian" ideals?

-I preach freedom yet at the same I should strip the freedom of CHOICE away from women? All because I have different beliefs, I hold religious beliefs? I should force those beliefs onto others and other than that I should be for freedom?

Folks you know what this reminds me of? 1930s Germany, where you were labelled as a hater of your nation when you questioned the Nazi controlled government.

-In 1930s Germany you labelled a traitor when you questioned the invasion and occupation of Poland, France and other European nations.

SO when I question the government, especially the republican government, Im actually putting down the entire nations? right... so says rightie. So says Joe the fake plumber. So says the McPalin express.

Fighting for freedom in Iraq huh? Thats why I cant question the war huh?

www.youtube.com...
They certainly dont want us there, what makes you think we're fighting for freedom?

WMDs?
www.youtube.com...
www.usatoday.com...
www.cnn.com...

There were no damn WMDs, so why did we still go in there? We had no reason. Oh wait now its regime change? Well why the hell aint we in North korea then, or pakistan, or Sudan? or Burma/Myanmar?? And your tell me Im ant-american, anti-military, anti freedom because I question this war? Because I choose to see the lies?

What Im a socialist because I dont hold conservative values? What are we in the 1960s? Since when did the Soviet Union come back to life? What are we hunting for communists again?

I cant believe that in 2008 I cant question a damn the about the government because rightie says so.

I cannot believe this logic of forcing ones own religious values onto others but at the same time preach freedom.

I cannot believe there is no objectivity left in middle america.... I cannot believe this partisan stance behind its partisan government nomatter what lies may be revealed.

I couldnt give a damn whether your right wing or left wing, I do give a damn when you question my love for this country because I choose to question the lies of my government. I do give a damn when you say your more patriotic because you believe every BS that comes out of fox news. I do give a damn when you question my respect for those men and women fighting in Iraq, because I oppose putting them through harms way in this war of lies.

I well and truly believe middle america has gotten Patiotism confused with nationalism, and if this is the case, if being a patriot is really a nationalist fascist, then DAMN STRAIGHT Im anti-patriotic.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by southern_Guardian]




posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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Wow, great thread man. It's good to see someone with a good head on their shoulders on this site.

It seems like the "Socialists" are the ones to blame for everything wrong on Earth, hmm.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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That is a very good post.

To clear the air, I would be what you call a "conservative". But i think that both political parties are crooked, and cannot follow either. Especially with the passage of the bailout. It smacks of socialism. All i can say is thank God they haven't taken away the 2nd amendment rights yet....we may need to use them one day.

You and i disagree on many points, but i would NEVER call you unAmerican for such disagreement. If we all agreed all the time, it would be an abomination to our Creator.

I hope that others can get what you mean here. As well, i hope you can see the the "mob mentality" present on both sides of the aisle is killing our nation. We can't even TALK to each other anymore without someone starting to call names.

God bless.


[edit on 18-10-2008 by bigfatfurrytexan]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 



Thankyou, it is great to hear this coming from a conservative.

I am sick to death of these nationalists dividing our country, it just makes me sick.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 08:13 PM
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Good post, I'd agree with you 100% though I'm fiscally, but not socially, conservative.

There is such and infantismally huge gap between the people and the government I'm surprised there isn't a larger call for secession if not outright revolution.

I woudl add to your post that I think that we have also confused how we judge our politicians.

Instead of judging them on how closely they follow the laws of their respective office, we judge "Right and wrong" upon how closely they follow a party line.

Which as you can see has been devestting.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 
I am a conservative, and after 9/11, I supported the actions we took. I don't necessarily support the war in Iraq, but I support the troops. Does that make me unpatriotic?
The Dems have had control of the Congress for 2 years. They bragged that they were going to change everything. What has changed? Does questioning the liberals make me unpatriotic?
I support McCain/Palin because I don't want a our country to become the United Socialist States of America. Does that make me unpatriotic. I volunteer my services at a Free Clinic for people who ar uninsured, and are not receiving welfare, mecicaid etc. I don't have to do this. I do it because I feel it is the right thing.
We don't need another expansion of the welfare state we already have. What we need is are programs that teach people how to find a job, keep a job, manage money(stay away from credit), and how to better themselves.
I worked my way through vocational school, then college. I took out a student loan(which I had really resisted) during my last semester.
That was 30 years ago. Now, it seems that entire post highschool education is financed with student loans.
Instead of blaming the government for everthing(and there is a lot of blame there) let's take responsiblity for ourselves. We have gotten fat, dumb and lazy. As a nation, we thing that someone should take care of us.
If you want government change, vote the sobs out. Run for office yourself. If you want real change, not just the bs both parties are promising, then get off your butt, quit your bitchin' and DO SOMETHING!
In other words, "Lead, follow, or get the Hell out of the way."

d



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
I am a conservative, and after 9/11, I supported the actions we took. I don't necessarily support the war in Iraq, but I support the troops. Does that make me unpatriotic?


Well thats the thing, you dont hear a whole lot of Liberals calling you unpatriotic now do you? You dont have progressives calling you anti-american purely because you supported the decision of the Iraq war. Yet when individuals like myself express disagreement with the war, when we are critical, we're labelled as anti american, anti patriotic.

Look at Joe fake the plumber, the man said he was angry at "those who were putting america down", when asked as to who he was implying he said the Democrats, those on the left and those who have been critical of this administration over the past 8years. I mean that is just disgusting and a pure example of the ignorant nationalistic movement in middle america, your putting america down when you are critical of the lies coming out from your government, from the whitehouse.


The Dems have had control of the Congress for 2 years.


Exactly, 2years, and yet you want to blame them entirely on this current mess we find ourselves in? Plenty of rightwingers appear to do so and keep the republicans and the Bush administration completely out of fault.

No objectivity, blind partisanship, this is what I see in middle america, and this attitude is mostly coming from the right.

I tell ya when clinton had an affair back in 97' the man was up for impeachment charges. I mean after this LIES of this administration and those neocons who have infiltrated the whitehouse, we find all the blame squared on democrats, the "anti-americans".

Ignorance, hypocrisy, blind partisanship. If you folks want to continue to deny deny deny, then this country will never move forward.


They bragged that they were going to change everything. What has changed?


Oh im not blinded by partisanship, this congress has been slack. Although I can you now this fault put on congress and the ass covering of the republicans by righties is just BS. We know full well the extent of this mess and who it falls onto.

Years of Bush vetos and lack of republican cooperation, damn straight nothing has changed.


Does questioning the liberals make me unpatriotic?


Theres no shortage of crightwingers questioning liberals, but where is it that we call you unpatriotic? Where is it that we call you anti-american huh?? Iv never seen this and I can ya all I hear is this coming from the right and it is disgusting.

2003 when those of us were critical of the war, we were called anti-american by the right, NEVER have I seen anybody from the left call the rightwinger anti-american or anti-patriotic. Sure iv hear other unacceptable names, but never those two.

Now tell me is it acceptable for people to call on their fellow countryman like that simply because they dont share the same beliefs?


I support McCain/Palin because I don't want a our country to become the United Socialist States of America.


Funny I heard the same thing in 1992 when Clinton ran. I heard the same thing again in 1996. In 2000 there were echoes of "socialist, communist".

Are we still in the 60s here or something? Has the soviet union reformed? What on earth makes you think this country will become socialist? This is an outdated argument coming from the right and it really doesnt do good to address the REAL issues of today.


Does that make me unpatriotic.


Again howmany liberals called you unpatriotic for your opinions? Then compare that to your fellow rightwingers here and out there.


We don't need another expansion of the welfare state we already have.


The welfare we have is pathetic, the very fact the US has the highest poverty level in the western world proves there is NEED to fix up this welfare system.


What we need is are programs that teach people how to find a job, keep a job, manage money(stay away from credit), and how to better themselves.


And this will be implemented in the welfare system by an Obama adminitration because we all know this administration did BS to implement this system, and the next bush administration will do BS as well.


I worked my way through vocational school, then college. I took out a student loan(which I had really resisted) during my last semester.
That was 30 years ago. Now, it seems that entire post highschool education is financed with student loans.


Which will be payed back public services and by those students who go off working again. An opportunity for all people across racial, cultural and class lines to have the opportunity for further education. To further educate our work force. If you have an issue with that and you prefer to keep up this corrupt system that did squat over the last 8years, I suggest you reconsider.


Instead of blaming the government for everthing(and there is a lot of blame there) let's take responsiblity for ourselves.


So your saying the issues over the last 8years are not in part by this administration, by the government? Damn straight we should take responsibility, damn straight we should blame others for electing in these idiots but give me break, this has everything to do with the government.


We have gotten fat, dumb and lazy.


Yes and the vast majority of these people are the ones calling their fellow countryman "anti-american, anti-patriot, anti support our troops" purely because they are critical, because they have difference concerns, because they have difference political believes. The vast majority of these people can be found at McCain Palin rallies.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 02:16 AM
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I am a conservative, and after 9/11, I supported the actions we took. I don't necessarily support the war in Iraq, but I support the troops. Does that make me unpatriotic?


That's a bunch of BS victimization garbage right there. Like southern_Guardian said, nobody accused a person supporting the troops of being unpatriotic. You pulled that out of your you-know-what right there.

People like Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, and Patrick Buchanan, all prominent conservatives, say the same thing people like myself and southern are saying. The level of political correctness in this country is out of control. The power elite in the country has created a stranglehold on what being American means to the point close to 90% of people in this country might as well be put in concentration or death camps because, well, we don't fit that mold. We criticize Israel? We're anti-semitic. We disagree with the retarded, psychotic neoconservative policies in place in Washington? We're not patriotic. We think differently from the Republicans in power and plan to vote for someone other than McCain/Palin? We're a "Communist country" and not "real America." Wow, what an awesome way to foster national unity!


Since you had the temerity to challenge us for exposing fascists within our borders, I will counter with a challenge of my own. If you are so desperate to be victimized and called unpatriotic, then we will do just that. We will accuse you of anti-Americanism for your fascist policy views, your support for the dangerous neoconservative agenda in Washington, and whatever else we feel like. However...

If you do not wish to be accused of being unpatriotic, then DO NOT ACCUSE US of being unpatriotic. Don't question my patriotism and I will not question yours. That goes for everyone.

Btw, I am just like John Popper of Blues Traveler. I used to be a bleeding-heart liberal. Until I got a job. I'm very patriotic.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Who has the right to question my love for my country when I question the actions of my government?


Everyone in the US still has the right to question anything and everything you say or think, just as you still have the right to believe in whatever you want. Check out the Bill of Rights under the US Constitution, it's a pretty good read.

The US Constitution:



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


Try and be more positive man. You sound sick inside, let's try to envision a life of love for you.
I never post a problem without a half assed uneducated opinion, for you my friend I suggest going out and feeding some birds. Connect with them and find your inner peace.
You cannot fight hate with hate. I know, I'm a veteran of the USMC and Iraq.
War is retarded. It is. We can acheive so much as a collective if we try to cool off our instinct to kill. We are predator's with 2 eye's facing forward. We must realize that while all life is special, some do not even go there day to day without looking up, or trying to connect with are dual-ality of being Predator philosepher. (I can't spell and that should prove the Marines thing... LOL)
We must break the chain of perpetual hate and I do think you hate many of thoose Middle American's without ever having a solution for the problem of the education/mindwash that is there every day life.

Break free of cycle man
PEace
pS It sounds like you do love the country, and thats a fact



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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Southern, the last thing the perps want is free thinking individuals who exercise their rights. What they want is blind obediance to the system AKA Fascist America. Your right to voice your fears and concerns as the situation is going to get alot worse.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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This is what the PTB wants. A divided America along ideological means. If the country is divided right vs left then the people of the Nation are no threat to the government(PTB). A united populace is very dangerous to the establishment and threatens their agenda.

Church and State should be separate, I still can't believe the amount of racism in the US. Wake up people it's 2008.

Questioning your government should never be viewed as unpatriotic, in fact I would argue it's the peoples job to question their leaders so that they are representing what you want.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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I think Teddy Roosevelt said it best:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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Careful about regionalizing where the problem comes from. There is a lot of ignorance in Middle America, but I've met many more zealous people, both left and right, in Southern California.

Name calling from the left or the right is counterproductive and pointless, no matter who, where or what.

It's not about left and right and it's not about Middle America. It's about people getting over their pride and working to better the life of their fellow man.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 02:06 PM
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I share a lot of the feelings of the OPs, we have bad problems, and blind allegiance to a corrupt regime will cause the demise of our country. ....The corporations and their brainwashing that is funded by socialistic fascist government aid is viewed as conservative policy, but we the people are considered the enemy for being aware of this, and voting for representation that will represent us..... It is our patriotic duty to question authority and call for impeachment of those that commit acts of high treason. .... "You are either for us, or against us" I am for us, and against them..... They are the international conglomerates that choose who we vote for, what kind of cars to buy, food to eat, clothes to wear, houses to live in, and so on. It is time to forget the cliches and one liners and look at what our nation has become.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


I so whole-heartedly agree with you! This is my eighth Presidential cycle since I've been old enough to vote, and it is by far the nastiest! I would also have to point out that is mostly from the right. I cannot think of one instance where a liberal has refered to a conservative as unamerican or unpatriotic. I am a moderate, and I have been accused of such things often here by conservatives. And it's not just the conservative base, it's coming out of their candidates and politicians as well! You have Sally Kern from Oklahoma saying that gays are more of a threat to this nation than Islamic fundamentalism, and most recently you have comments from the Vice Presidential Candidate, Sarah Palin, that I found most offensive! I posted this in another thread concerning her remarks at a Greensboro, NC rally:


Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

"We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation."

She continued: "This is where we find the kindness and the goodness and the courage of everyday Americans. Those who are running our factories and teaching our kids and growing our food and are fighting our wars for us. Those who are protecting us in uniform. Those who are protecting the virtues of freedom."


Source.

As someone who lives in an urban area, I find this greatly insulting! Apparently, Palin feels that only those people from small towns and rural areas are the only 'Real Americans'! I spent eight years of my life defending this country, including the freedom of speech she enjoys when she insults those of us who do not have the same 'small town roots' that she has. The McCain/Palin campaign later tried to explain that she was refering to the 'DC' crowd, which is equally insulting to those who live in the nations capital that are not elected officials, but she seriously needs to choose her words more carefully. This is not a quality I'm looking for in the Vice President of the United States, especially since the odds are good that she could be President before the term is up due to McCain's age.

I think this is a prime example why her handlers have not allowed her to hold a press conference yet. When she strays from the talking points, she tends to lodge her foot squarely in her mouth. The scary thing is that I think that this is how she really feels. I have always had the impression that she looks down on us urban folks. We are looking for leaders who are willing to lead us all, not just 'small town' America. Especially since most of the population resides in urban areas. I feel she owes us a public apology for those remarks.


I have been very pleased to read the posts by conservatives here on this thread that don't feel that way, and perhaps most don't, but the ones that are getting all the attention seem to love to beat the 'anti-american' drum on those who do not believe as they do. As I stated before, I've seen it and been a victim of it right here on ATS. I would say to those who say and believe such nonsense: "United WE Stand, Divide WE Fall!" WE means all of us, conservative, liberal and moderate! WE can disagree on issues, but WE are all Americans and WE are all patriots! After the elections are over, if WE don't stand together, WE will all fall, and if WE do, WE have no one to blame but ourselves!


[edit on 19-10-2008 by JaxonRoberts]



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


I couldn't say it better myself. Isn't it sad that people in this country have become so ignorant, to the fact, that they support the government blindly no matter how clearly wrong or how many lies they have been caught in. It's really scary to realize that the so-called "patriotic Americans" and our elected officials turn a blind eye to what we complained about was wrong with the Soviet Union. We were always told that the Soviet Union wanted to spread communisim around the world. So I ask, are we not trying to do the same thing with Bush's doctrine?



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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Its amazing to me the blind patriotism we see in America today. If you arent some war mongering, religious, corporatist then you just arent American. I mean if you question Iraq or any other war you are un American. Now to the op forget the lack of WMDs. We were told that we went to war because of Osama Bin Laden and his terrorist network. Now we find out that Osama had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Dont believe me look at it come from their mouths.





So if Osama didnt do 9/11 who did and why?

Well lets see who has gained the most from 9/11 and that is the defense contractors and the bankers. Who has lost the most? The US citizens through the loss of both lives and our taxpayer dollars. I too am a conservative (Not Republican because the two DO differ) The Republicans used to be conservatives but have since been hi jacked. This is why I want the lesser of the two evils to win and that is the Democrats. My hope is it will wake up the Republicans to look back to their roots and throw out the scum that has Hi Jacked the once great party. The party of small government, individual liberties, no nation building, no intervention, Low taxes, fiscal responsibility you know crazy stuff like that. I WILL NOT vote this year but I am hoping for a victory for Obama. Hopefully this will wake up the Republicans. (Obviously my top choice is Paul but we all know he has no chance)



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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[edit on 19-10-2008 by lightyears]





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