Al Qaeda..I mean Taliban er..Al Qeada..aahhh whatever. The Muslims are going to kill us all!...

haha..sorry had to laugh at my own headline...

what is the point of such a stupid headline you may be wondering?

to prove a point.

After 9/11, the first thing the government did was declare war on terrorism. That means congress gave us the legal right to invade any country that posed a threat to our nation.

What did the msm propogandize the very next day?

That OBL and Al Qaeda were the perpetrators, correct? We were showered with all the "info" of how these terrorists were organized "evil doers" with extreme resources...ha! Al Qaeda may have existed as a low level religious extremist group with mal-intentions. So, ok gov. you got me (personally i took the bate hook, line and sinker. Joined the military to fight and kill these bastards). Lets get this Al qaeda. Lets get the people who perpetrated the greatest crime on American soil.
Im in.

So after 7 years in this foreign country. What do we have besides a new oil pipeline, more opium fields, thousands of innocent people killed and thousands of our own American flesh and blood spilled?

We have an official statement from the whitehouse saying Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is and was the mastermind of 9/11. Not OBL! And we have 75% of people thinking that the Taliban are the ones who perpetrated 9/11 because fox news uses the names Taliban and Al Qaeda synonimously. The Taliban! WTF government?! WTF!!!??

Can you not get your story straight? Who are we really after? Al Qaeda or the Taliban? Does it even matter anymore?

There is constant rhetoric about how the Taliban is hunkered down in Pakistan and how we need to go in and get them.

Why for Christ sake? We already removed the Taliban from power! Why are we trying to hunt them down? Objective complete!

And when the msm starts talking about Al-Qaeda is doing this, Al Qaeda is doing that, how in the hell do you (msm) know it is Al Qaeda? Did the government tell you? How do they know? Did Al Qaeda tell you? The way they told you after 9/11 then released another video comprehensively denying and condemming the attacks? Are they riding around in their Toyota Tocomas waving Al Qaeda flags? Why have there been multiple reports that Al Qaeda is much of a figment to the governments imagination as peter Pan is to an eight year old boy?

Can you explain yourself government?

It is time you become transparent to the people you are required to protect or be prepared to be removed for false information and putting into harms way our soldiers.

And after this debacle, how in the hell do you expect us to believe you about Iraq, Iran, or any other boogey man you decide to try and thow at us?

You do not have power over us to force your war of ideologies...

-Joe six pack out


[edit on 18-10-2008 by abelievingskeptic]

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


You've pointed out, who was behind it, and your not even aware even still.


I will let you think about it.


It's the one who plays all out all the songs, and we dance to them, your danceing to it again.

7 years on, and 75% are dancing around the truth.


You let yourself be fooled by the real "mastermind"


I'm not going to say anymore

Well, aside from cultural differences, Muslims must fight until all religion is for Allah alone. Anyone can take what they want from that. Try to open a Christian church in Saudi Arabia. No tolerance, whatsoever.

reply to post by mind is the universe


hold on a sec. i have read all the theories about who was behind 9/11 (if that is what you are talking about)

I don't know and in all honesty, I dont believe you can say for absolute certainty either. I have tried breaking it down as logically as possible (all the different theories out there). I believe I have come to the conclusion that al qaeda was in fact behind 9/11. I think the real conspiracies are the ties the cia has with mossad and the ISI and the ties all three have with al qaeda. Not to mention all the financial questions that still lie unanswered.

there are all sorts of questions to those ties.

Im staying away from the conspiracy end of it with my op. my point is the blatant inconsistencies that we can adress now. adress it with the candidates, with our government and even with our media.
\
Instead of concentrating on the things we can not prove. we need to isolate the issue we know we can bring up and really stick it to them.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by abelievingskeptic]

reply to post by dooper


i cant say for saudi arabia in whole, but i know it is not allowed in mecca.

as sad as that is, that makes no bearing on the war on terrorism.

i mean if that is what the war was really about, we should have gone into lebanon, saudi arabia, sudan, libya, jordan, israel half the countries in africa, india, pakistan, venezuela, colombia, argentina, peru, el salvador, cuba and many others..

there is no war on terror.

its a bunch of b.s.

you can see what the b.s. story of "the war on terror" all over the u.s. especially in christians.

a perfect example is how poeple believe obama is a terrorist!..haha maybe a coke head at one point, but a terrorist...no.

this was direct mental warfare on the american/ christian psychy.

its so damn apparent its sickening.

This is what I call "dancing" to the government.


Even your very reply is exactly that. Reading all the conspiracies, taping the media, lip reading the governments, debunking and jumping onto theories.


This is what the government want's you too do.


I say it again now, THINK.......


I know what is, I'm not going to say anything yet

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


Yup, Media is controlled by the government.

So yes your right it's sickening.


People should start thinking, and turn off the T.Vs. If this is what the government play out there like this election stunt.

What do you think they might do behind the T.Vs


I'm going to be reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly slow on this.

I say it again now, THINK.......


I know what is, I'm not going to say anything yet

Im sorry bro. I really do not understand what exactly it is you are trying to get at. A hint maybe

the thing I have found within the deceit of the government is they will take the truth and expand or omit on parts of it, just leading you into whatever objective they are trying to achieve.

its the only way it can work. to get people rallying behind them. they can not outright lie except in very specific instances.

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


Thanks for the post. In response to the OP, you are correct in saying that fundamentally, the the idea of accountibility of the US govt to its people is over. They lie daily. They lied about who they were/are after. They lied about the intelligence. They lied about their ultimate plan (do you remember when, a month or two before the beginning of Iraq, Bush fired his economic advisor when he publicly stated that the war may cost us up to $85 billion? - what are we on - a trillion?) There is no withdrawl strategy because there never was going to be one. Having an enemy that with one car bomb in say, Chicago (cost $20k) costs your country a perpetual war ($500Bilion a year) - wow - they got you over a barrell - this war will never end.

And mindisuniverse, what, you have the answers? If so, don't make people play games and if you don't, stop it. It's silly.

ColoradoJens

[edit on 18-10-2008 by ColoradoJens]

[edit on 18-10-2008 by ColoradoJens]

Originally posted by abelievingskeptic

I think the real conspiracies are the ties the cia has with mossad and the ISI and the ties all three have with al qaeda. Not to mention all the financial questions that still lie unanswered.

Well it's no secret that Mossad and the CIA share intelligence and US does supply alot of money to Isreal. Why? Because they are America's ally in the ME and it is extremely important for the US to have an ally that is at the center of what is going on in the ME. No secret there.

As far as "CIA funding Al Queda" goes, well in the Afghan war against the Russians, it's no secret that America funded and supplied weapons to the Mujahideen. Why? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Also if you can win a war against your enemy without putting any American soldiers on the ground to win it, shouldn't you do it?

The problem that came out of that war is that for the Mujahideen the war wasn't over for them when they defeated Russia. Their fundamentalist ideal is to make the whole world Islam which includes America. In their own words, they only had to defeat two world powers, America and Russia, to accomplish their goal. They thought that defeating Russia was the tougher of the two powers and thought America was going to be easy considering the lack of action during the Clinton and Bush41 years. I mean they bombed a couple of Americas embassies around the world, they bombed the WTC in 93 and attacked an American ship. America's response to these terrorist acts? Send a few missiles. They saw America as weak.

It is also no secret that it is in America's interest to have a stable secure Pakistan that is willing to help fight against the taliban and al queda. The problem is is that that nation is teetering on becoming a failed state where the rule of law means nothing. Along their border there are many of these fundamentalist militants hiding in the mountains. Now America is faced with a difficult decision. Do they take the fight into Pakistan and risk increasing the size of the war to bring it under control or do they try and empower the Pakistani government to do their job (which means funding, sharing intelligence with ISI, etc) and keep American troops out of Pakistan? That is why I do not think that the US will step foot into Pakistan unless that country completely collapses which I don't think will happen any time soon.

This war is unique because it is not against a uniformed army, it is a war against individuals. And given that complexity it is no surprise that innocent people have died like they have in every war in history. While that is a terrible by product of war, one has to ask if a greater genocide is not being averted by taking action against them now before they have the means to really do some damage.

Sorry I went I on a rant here but just wanted to share my perspective and take from it what you will. I agree the media has been terrible at making sense of what is happening half a world away. But then again, that is not their job. Their job is to get ratings. My suggestion to anyone is to listen to long interviews, read books with people who are knowledgeable about what is going on. But most are like me we don't have the time or not willing to take the time as to what is happening out there. Instead most people rely on headlines when they should be looking at history books.

My .02 cents

[edit on 19-10-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke


excellent well reasoned post!..star. and thanks for the contribution.

As I said earlier, much of where the conspiracies are derived from (when it comes to 9/11 and the war on terror) is the fact the government and their mouth piece media are non-transparent.

They confuse people intentionally and detract or add to the truth distorting what it is that people need to know, most likely to save their own glutius.

The reason for the headline I posted is the simple fact that they (media/ gov) now have turned the attention to the Taliban and no longer give a rats behind about al qaeda. I think the number 1 reason is al qaeda is but a fly on the government ass. They dont care about al qaeda because they are insignificant. But if you recall what the government said immediatgely after 9/11 you would find all the lies and exaggerations about al qaeda they spewed upon the public.

I understand they truly are terrorists, and that may be a fitting word, but at the same time the real world actual threat of these people is 0 to nill. And now, to keep a puppet government instilled in a poppy, oil and muslim or "terrorst" rich country they have now shifted the focus to the Taliban, who in reality had nothing to do with 9/11 or terrorism.

sometimes I have a hard time getting my point across, but do you see what I am saying?

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
The problem that came out of that war is that for the Mujahideen the war wasn't over for them when they defeated Russia. Their fundamentalist ideal is to make the whole world Islam which includes America.

Who actually said this, I want names, I don't want the BS you hear from the T.V. Who are these fundamentalists. I want you to specifically state and tell me where you got's the information.

In their own words, they only had to defeat two world powers, America and Russia, to accomplish their goal. They thought that defeating Russia was the tougher of the two powers and thought America was going to be easy considering the lack of action during the Clinton and Bush41 years.

Again I'm having a problem with this BS. Who is they, and who told you "they" said this

Just give me your sources. Then we can both discuss the reality here. Right now and to the point those towers was struck is 7 years of utter lies and fantasy made up by the American government

Just OBSERVE them. They have not given ANY concrete proof it was Al quieda. Even if it was them, the Government helped them indirectly for a fact.

I.e. Supplying them weapons, and funding the terrorist organisation for years, reason not relevant right now, the fact is the American government gave them the power. CIA have a history of creating terrorist organisations and setting up wars. Creating fear within America about Russia. It's well documentated.

Second fact. George behaviour was not any way shape logical, rational or genuine when he was sitting in class. I will speak about this in more detail in a separate post. But the point is, none of the government official information on 9/11 does not fit logic or give any defenate answers to what REALLY happened that day

Even 7 years on, they continue to behave like "tip tow around the event"
The government beniefeted from 9/11. Should we dicuss this all out now, why not. Ask me why I think that...

I mean they bombed a couple of Americas embassies around the world, they bombed the WTC in 93 and attacked an American ship. America's response to these terrorist acts? Send a few missiles. They saw America as weak.

Who actually bombed, if you know please tell me. America weak, did you ask the terrorist's that they thought America was weak?

It is also no secret that it is in America's interest to have a stable secure Pakistan that is willing to help fight against the taliban and al queda.

That is not correct, given the evidence of America's interest in the last 8 years. That is a discipicable and ignorant thing to actually say. America does NOT pratice stability nor abroad.

The problem is is that that nation is teetering on becoming a failed state where the rule of law means nothing.

CIA carried out these regimes in many countries, where they will eventually fall unstable or civil war breaks out. Then America comes in "like oh I'm going to save the day"

Do you honestly fall for this crap.................... Open your eyes.

Along their border there are many of these fundamentalist militants hiding in the mountains.

Oh did you get in there and meet them? Let's be real here seriously. You are completely sucked into the media nonsense, its unbelievable and at the same time not surprising.

Now America is faced with a difficult decision. Do they take the fight into Pakistan and risk increasing the size of the war to bring it under control or do they try and empower the Pakistani government to do their job (which means funding, sharing intelligence with ISI, etc) and keep American troops out of Pakistan?

Acting with agression and retailating to violence to the aggressor, means you have lost control.

Ever think of it, you should try think about it.

That is why I do not think that the US will step foot into Pakistan unless that country completely collapses which I don't think will happen any time soon.

When has America ever stopped to actually think that, ever?

This war is unique because it is not against a uniformed army, it is a war against individuals. And given that complexity it is no surprise that innocent people have died like they have in every war in history.

War is not unique. These wars that your pointing out are created by our governments, If you want to say that is unique go ahead. But it's pretty obvious what the goal is, with these "unique wars"

You haven't got it yet.

I agree the media has been terrible at making sense of what is happening half a world away. But then again, that is not their job. Their job is to get ratings.

The media's job, is to make money. Government controls them, therefore it's about money. Enough of it to go around, and all the insane news is on the television, I can see it. So I turn it off.

My suggestion to anyone is to listen to long interviews, read books with people who are knowledgeable about what is going on. But most are like me we don't have the time or not willing to take the time as to what is happening out there. Instead most people rely on headlines when they should be looking at history books.

You forgot about looking at ourselves too,that is important also. When we are in a crisis, we never look at what we do that might affect these situations. Be aware of what we are doing and let's not always point the finger everytime, instead of always looking for answers from another person. Ask people in the situation what THEY think, and what do you THINK of the situation then. How does it affect you.

The government, is not a person, it is not there for you, it is not giving your answers to benefet you, they give out answers to benifet them,





The government is that "other" person that are not facing the crisis we are forced to deal with. Stop depending on governments for the answers. They lie and lie and create these situations


Like 9/11.... People I will put my views more and more as time goes on, as to why I feel they are ultimatley the ones behind 9/11. But People need to start asking the questions, what if, what if they are behind it.

People don't want to think, so they continue the next 7 years of conspiracy, and so on. Still left with no answers and I wonder why

I would like to hear from you though, no matter if we dissagree on our pooint of views.

I have one very simple question:
If 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi Arabian and the other 4 were Egyptians; all affiliated with Taliban which came out of Pakistan, then why did we attack Afghanistan?