School Uses "Guantanamo Bay Style" Isolation Cells to Punish Students

reply to post by machinegun_go_go


Yes, lazy and stupid, impatient and unwilling.

My Mom was a teacher and now my cousin is a teacher. I've been in many classrooms and seen many things. I also went to school myself and I remember ways that I would have liked to be treated, but was not even allowed to espouse to the teacher. Most schools already feel like prison as it is with the exception of a few classes such as P.E., why make the punishment solitary penitentiary when it's already group penitentiary? School is a literal prison of and for the absorption and teaching of "knowledge" for 12 years or more of one's life, and if you don't go to school and they find out, guess what, they force you or your parents go to prison, you go to a foster home, or you go to prison.

Anyhow, I do know what it's like to be in classrooms full of children, and a prepared and well thought out teacher that is considerate, willing, patient, passionate and progressive about teaching, being forthright and being kind, and doesn't mind repeating his or herself, will be a successful teacher. Every child is different, every year. Get to know them, it makes your job easier.

Humor should always be welcomed in the classroom.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by welivefortheson
seems all these punishment tactics are designed to make humans obediant,get them in thier formative years and shape thier minds towards never questioning authority or percieve reality in a way that does not conform to authoritarian control.

...

what better way to control a species than to shape them when thier young disguised as a benifical act.....teaching!

The system really does not work that way at all.

Any disclipline in the manner being discussed here that goes on in school is purely to do with safety and stopping others from learning.

And if you yourself are self-taught - am I correct in thinking you didn't go to school?

In which case, are you qualified to comment upon such issues?

Just a question.

Peace,

MGGG

Originally posted by machinegun_go_go
Forcing procedure down someone's throat. No - we have rules, rights and responsibilities.

The curriculum is set by others. End of. Don't shoot the messenger.

Well, those rules and being responsible to them are taking away the rights of others and it's still considered procedure.

Then an overhaul of the educational system is needed.

By the way, I need the whole incident about the 21 year old female teacher to ever make any type of synopsis about it. So if you could, it would be appreciated.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by machinegun_go_go


I believe our defendant here is now pulling our legs. I guess is nothing more to tell.

Talking about behavior problem If you know what I mean.

You may be right.

I hope so.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by machinegun_go_go]

This is nothing new to me. When I was in school We had a similar room. The rooms were round and the walls were padded with some type of blue padding. No windows at all. One dim light. Not even a chair to sit in. It always reminded me of a room you would find in an insane asylum or something.

It was called "The Quiet Room"

In my child hood I took a couple visits to the quiet room. It wasnt that bad really. I used to just go in there and try to take a nap. Although I was never in long enough to fall asleep.

The room did no harm to me physically, mentally or emotionally. The writing on the walls might have though....

There once was a man from nantucket.......


Dust

reply to post by machinegun_go_go


Well . . . you've already stated your bias previously, so it makes sense you would take exception to the "lazy" comment. My formal education is in Secondary Education and Psychology and I can tell you I've encountered MANY lazy teachers, in my day. Whether it is due to underpay/motivation or stress . . . it exists and many teachers (in the public school system) just don't care. Add the fact that most public school systems feed the teachers the curriculum based on NCLB or standardized testing and I think you can make a pretty easy case for lazy, although I won't catagorize them as "stupid". Private and Charter institutions may be different.

Plus . . . I don't think anyone has a problem with the isolation (time out, detention, et. al). The scary issue here is the set up of the room. An all black room creates an oppressive environment where the child will feel anxiety for no reason, but that's what the school wants to promote. It also drains energy from the "captive". The classic western symbology for black, "death, evil, emptiness, isolation", is also not lost on the subconscious of these kids.

Then . . . you add the classic bright light . . . which, I'm assuming, is not in the ultra-violet spectrum. Incandescent and fluorescent lights have long been proven to drain energy and focus from kids in the classroom. . . . meaning lower scores, less attentive, and more prone to "disruptions". This traditional lighting also has a physiological effect on the student, as well as, the teacher! This is one reason a lot of researchers believe teachers have a multitude of health issues over there tenure.

There is a reason black rooms and bright (artificial) lights are used for interregations and mind control. It breaks you down and turns you into an emotionless drone . . . one that blindly follows orders. IMO, there is no way children should be subjected to this type of abuse!

effects of lighting in the classroom

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by marg6043

 

Forcing parents to get out of work to come and have to pick up their children from school for bad behavior.

Eh. To me, that isnt a solution either.
1. You cant force a parent to leave work. You can call them, but they may not be able to leave
2. Many parents just dont care
3. Many kids dont respect their parents for a lot of reasons, so child is picked up by parent and child could care less what parent thinks or says or does.
4. Many times the parents are the actual problem. Kids being bad because they have crappy parents at home.

Being sent home for the day is viewed by most children as a reward not a punishment. How many kids fake illness, or cut class to do exactly that? Boy, If I was a kid today where would I rather be, at school or at home playing video games and watching tv?

Anyway I must be getting old because when I was in school we got sent to the principals office to either be expelled, or have a meeting with the “board of education”. Our board of education had holes in it so it had less air resistance per swing.

Originally posted by marg6043
LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Interesting, I got once a child that was a guard of the state as he was accused of molesting another child when he was 14, I got him at age 16, you know what he did in the classroom? because the law in my neck of the woods said that this children should be given the right to have education in regular classrooms?

He pull his pants to expose himself.

How gentle should I have been to make him feel loved.

I guess you have no seen the ugly side of reality for what I can tell.

I have, and got out of it before it killed me.

Schools of today have to deal with a lot of crap dump on the teachers without asking us if we want it or not.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by marg6043]

you know,i pretty much raised myself with the odd bit of guidance from my father.i was shown no rules,nor was i ordered what to do......instead i was left to learn for myself,to understand the world around me,what is and isnt acceptable, and that i did for when you learn for yourself you gain understanding.....you understand you shouldnt be doing the things you describe.
there is ZERO point in creating rules if people dont understand why they should follow them or why breaking them is wrong.

rules would and should not be needed if people understood why they shouldnt commit certain acts,but they dont for they are so used to be being told what to do they cannot think in a way in which allows them to control thier behaviour.
thus we have a society in which people must be told what to do instead of realising it themselves resulting in people being unable to control themselves and thier actions without being forced to do so.

Originally posted by marg6043
How gentle should I have been to make him feel loved.

Just tell him that's not allowed here. You don't need to freak out or anything. Tell him to pull his pants up, tell him it's not allowed and if he doesn't or if he continues to do it, then you have to write him up, but you have to always communicate as clearly and extensively as possible. Attempting to have children fall in line through using false threats of authentic punishment or using authentic threats of false punishment really achieves nothing but psychological damage for the child and instills in this child those same methods to be used on his or her children if that child should grow up to be a parent (or teacher).

I guess you have no seen the ugly side of reality for what I can tell.

I see the beauty and the ugly, but I appreciate them both.

I have, and got out of it before it killed me.

Schools of today have to deal with a lot of crap dump on the teachers without asking us if we want it or not.

It comes with the job, some people are willing and understand what they're getting into, others don't.

reply to post by solomons path


Well, maybe in the US, but you simply cannot get away with being lazy in this job in the UK. There is too much monitoring go on.

With respect to the psychological effects of the black room and the spotlight. I think it is being used as a deterrent rather than an attempt to condition kids and people are really reading too much into this.

Thanks for the intelligent input though.

Appreciated.

MGGG

reply to post by defcon5


I remember, but in my case back in the days when I was a child the worst thing you could do was to have your parent come all the way from home or work because you were bad in school, it still works here in the south.

I guess times changed and what used to be a mean of punishment is becoming a mean of rewarding in the children's mind.

But then again I grew up when spanking was part of the curriculum.

reply to post by machinegun_go_go


i totaly agree with you mate. when i was i school we had an isolation room to.
it was a succesful deterant. Kids simply did not want to go there during the day so in turn they behaved.

i did find the large mind manipulating machine a bit worrying though.

reply to post by marg6043


marg . . . IMO, the parents are the real issue here. I don't think anyone that was schooled before the eighties, and the onslaught of "every child is a winner" programs, would disagree with the notion that the worst thing to happen was walking through the front door, after a "bad" day at school. As the parents stopped taking an active roll in their childs discipline and education . . . schools became more of a factory. Get the kids in, give them a scantron, pass them regardless of grade, get them out of the system. Unless the parents start objecting to the "shepparding" and withdraw there kids from "traditional" schools (hit the GOVT in the wallet), things won't change (and will probably only become less focused on actually educating).

reply to post by AmbroseRokewood


Now the machine shouldn't be there - I agree with you!!!



reply to Solomons Path

I remember going home after school had phoned about something I'd done - I was always terrified and usually rightfull so. Normally got a grilling.

Nowadays, the parents never believe you...

Peace,

MGGG

reply to post by marg6043


Hey I am in the south too, though I did not go to school here my siblings both did. I think the worst punishment when I was a kid was being embarrassed in front of your peers, today kids seem to think that its cool. Either way though it all comes down to a lack of self discipline on the part of the children. This is not too surprising considering that when we were children we had little to entertain us when bored, and often had to sit through boring things (school, church, plays, etc). Today children are constantly entertained, and though it may make them more intelligent as a whole, it makes them unable to tolerate anything that they lack interest in. Parents today, with most having to both work, give their children instant gratification items to entertain themselves (dvd's, computers, video games, etc) and they never learn to use their self discipline or imagination like we had to. Also, again with two working parents, many children grow up in families where there is no structure, attention, or discipline, and children require all of these, or they will act up to receive them. After all, negative attention is better then none, and often results in discipline and structure, giving them a sense of security.

reply to post by machinegun_go_go


The problem with the "deterant" is that it cause the psychological effects whether they are "intended" or not. Sure . . . kids don't want to be placed in the ISO room, but the reasons why it feels "bad" and not right to these kids is lost on them. I highly doubt a school psych is sitting down with these kids before or after and explaining to them WHY they feel "bad". Moreover, I don't believe any Western country wants kids to understand . . . just makes them cognizant to the mind manipulation going on in our educational system.

This ISO would have the same desired effects if it was a white, naturally lit room with soft music. Only diffence is it would not turn these kids into obedient zombies, who will only fail to acheive when left to their own devices (University). I just don't think our governments want to matriculate "bright, free thinkers". They want worker drowns, who do just enough to get by and keep their mouths shut while doing it. Why would the system want an educated mass . . . they're harder to control . . . that's the only reason for the room set up. Control.

EDIT - SO true about parents not believing . . "NOT MY kid!!". Today's students are a reflection of the society they grow up in . . . pass the buck, ignore the responsiblity . . . it's always someone else's fault.



[edit on 10/18/08 by solomons path]

Originally posted by machinegun_go_go

Originally posted by welivefortheson
seems all these punishment tactics are designed to make humans obediant,get them in thier formative years and shape thier minds towards never questioning authority or percieve reality in a way that does not conform to authoritarian control.

...

what better way to control a species than to shape them when thier young disguised as a benifical act.....teaching!

The system really does not work that way at all.

Any disclipline in the manner being discussed here that goes on in school is purely to do with safety and stopping others from learning.

And if you yourself are self-taught - am I correct in thinking you didn't go to school?

In which case, are you qualified to comment upon such issues?

Just a question.

Peace,

MGGG

"schooling" has little to do with teaching and has everything to do with shapings the youngs minds towards obedience.

the students are told to utterly accept the authority of thier leader or else they will be punished.they are told what to wear,what they will learn,how to learn it and by when.
they are entrained to accept whatever they are being taught is the truth,that the syllabus is gospel.

no emphasis whatsoever is put upon the individual,upon learning.
if i discovered anti grav tech or instantanious intestellar travel am i rewarded at school?,nope....yet if i nod my head and memorize the syllabus i am a grade A student even though that same syllabus is learned by every other person in the western world.

the only thing you are rewarded for at school is obedience,do as your told and you shine,try to learn for yourself and your damned,you will learn only what your taught.

you could discover the secrets of the universe and it would get out nowhere at school,for its not at the syllabus.if i discovered the secrets of time travel on a morning but arrived an hour late,what do you get...punished!

i did go to school on occasion and found it utterly pointless as i could learn for myself in a much much shorter amount of time that which the education system spends countless time and money trying to get students to learn to no avail.

its a farce,a complete farce...a system designed to force people to accept a view of reality that is acceptable to some or "else".

many countries use education systems to control peoples beliefs,look at the extreme religious schools in pakistan and elsewhere......the communist schooling that taught anything western was evil....and guess what most of the children believe it and grow up knowing no better.....and if you disagreed with what they were teaching......your stigmatized into subordination or hostility.
do you believe its any different in western systems?,it just cant be seen for its what everyones grown up with.....what youve been taught...like them boys in the madrassas.

reply to post by solomons path


Fom my experience of school leadership teams, I really don't think they're thinking that in depth.

Interesting point about the edpsych sitting down with the kids...I think that's a good idea actually - may prevent any issues from forming.

I seriously don't see a conspiracy of 'control' on a wide society wide level here though - because the types of students going in there are not the sort who are going to find themselves in a position to questions TPTB in their future lives if you know what I'm getting at...

I know that sounds a bit like I'm sterotyping...actually, I am...anyway, moving on LOL...

The other thing to consider is that OfSTED - one of the most luvvy duvvy, do-gooder, kid-centric organisations on the planet, don't have a problem with it. The again - if it is to do with mass control...

But then, back to my point about the kind of kids going into these rooms...

Jeez, I'm gonna stop typing for a bit.

Again, your posts are well thought out and intelligent. Nice to have food for thought. Even if I don't agree with all of what you're saying.

Peace,

MGG

I think, if it works, rock on!

I have been too close to pulling out my kids from school because of other kids who need dicipline. The schools hands are tied. They can not suspend kids anymore unless they threaten the life of another. Even then there is a HUGE very public fight about it. SO, while the teachers and administrators tiptoe around these kids, the other children in the classroom get to deal with them while their backs are turned.

If putting them in a room where there is no entertainment, no audience, and no fun colors, and sunshine to fuel daydreams, works??? Why not?

Seems to me this is the only thing they CAN do.