If heaven is such a wonderful place...

Then why do we work so damn hard to keep people alive longer ?

There's plenty of stories in the bible of Jesus healing people to keep them alive longer, yet if heaven is such a wonderful place why does he do this ?

Surely quality and longevity of life should not matter if we're going to heaven which is apparantly a wonderful place to be ?

I mean the world we're in now is only the waiting for that better place so why do we fear death so much and try everything possible to prevent people from going there ?

Agreed, another problem for the religious to answer. We don't see people going 'oh! you're dying, that's fantastic news!' (Apart from one case in the United Kingdom with a RC Cardinal if i recall right). If you truly believe it, and i mean REALLY have faith, then surely fear shouldn't be a problem.

reply to post by Discotech


ok, disregarding the afterlife and heaven being not what the popular understanding is....

1) people= lack of faith

2) Jesus did heal, and other things, for the Glory of God.

david

we prolong life because when we get to heaven, we realize we are eternal creatures, we realize we are all a part of gods thoughts, literally, we are god pretending to be tom, jane, and the next guy, we prolong life because life is how we subjectively experience ourself, we purposely make ourself forget that we are eternal when we enter this dimension so the magic of finite perceptions is what it is, magic.
When you think about the afterlife, or when you think about spiritual ideology or philosophy, you might find a greater understanding in eastern teachings, either that or look into gnostic christianity, im not religious, but the texts of the east and a lot of gnostic texts, speak great multitudes of the truth that LOGOS can provide. If youre really curious about these things, I deeply encourage you to dedicate some serious time to meditation or ayahuasca.
see you on the other side...

I see a lot of unsubstatiated claims here, anyone got any proof of their versions of this 'hereafter'?

I'm tried and tested on this ,I know for sure that dying is NOT the worst thing that can happen to you. I'm an atheist and I'm not afraid of death. I don't know what else to say . Terry Shivo comes to mind and the fight of so many faith professing people who wanted to prolong her life at any cost . The same people who equate War with God and who's prescription for every problem a society can have is Kill 'Em ,makes no friggin sense

Originally posted by Venit
I see a lot of unsubstantiated claims here, anyone got any proof of their versions of this 'hereafter'?

The proof doesn't fit into this dimension. The proof lay in experience.

The only faith it requires, is that you have faith in rational thinking, the more of a skeptic you are, the better.

So figure it out, there are many tools here in the earth plane designed specifically for your liberation into understanding what the finite dimension or sense of reality really is.

Partake in an Ayahuasca ceremony or do an extract on phalaris grass or come out to the Sonoran desert and milk a Bufo Alvarius for a smokable version, and then you'll experience all the proof you need. I greatly suggest meditation, but if youre just looking for some quick answers, the plant and or animal teacher is the rout you may want to take.

I dont know how to explain this, but you will experience a reality, that is intensely more complex and "real" than this one, and you will be provided with more proof than you could ask for or handle, but Im telling you this, the proof doesnt fit into this reality/dimension, its nearly incomprehensible when you come back to a finite perception, thus why I suggest meditation if you wish to explore it more in depth after you've been shown the way.

Its exactly like the flatland situation, how a 3-d perception can see everything in the 2-d that someone in the 2-d couldn't understand unless they entered the 3-d and saw it from above, then when coming back to 2-d and attempting to describe it to their other 2-d friends, they cannot because their friends do not have a frame of reference for the 3-d. I dont expect anyone to take any of this on faith, I really REALLY encourage you to figure it out on your own, you will not regret it.

Its not called the spirit molecule for no reason...

reply to post by invisiblewoman


I was one of the people that supported Terri's family in her right to fight for her life. I did not agree with the way her life was put out and I found it to be a selfish act, not an act of mercy.. That would be based on the evidence that Terri WAS responding to her world around her which is something that wasn't being put out in the main stream media sources despite her family's constant pushing for it to be shown to the public.

She had responded PERFECTLY to the commands given to her to show her consent of or lack of constant of being 'let go.' Each and every time, she didn't consent (by manifesting the series of commands given to her) to be let go.

MOST people were basing their opinion of the situation on VERY limited knowledge of the events that were taking place in that room. You were told that she was trapped, yet even in her condition, she was able to show her pleasure toward things she enjoyed before she was in a coma. Most of us are more comatose than she was and yet we don't realize it because we think only in terms of physical function.

So, I supported Terri's right to live as she so chose to do so. I do not support war, but I also choose to see that the negative manifestations in life can reveal the positive aspects with in our own selves if we choose to endure and be patient.

Heaven is a matter of perspective should someone so choose to experience fully (without fear of consequence) any physical hell that is put in their path.



[edit on 18-10-2008 by justamomma]

Dying is unpleasant, sometimes painful and disorienting, but necessary for a believer to go to heaven. I think doubt and entering the unknown (human emotions) tend to play a part as well as the survival instinct. Also, being a believer means having hope for living things. If a non-believer is terminally ill, I'd pray for them to live so they'd have more time. For a believer, I pray that their family understands should they be called to go to heaven. I think that many pray for a believer to live so that they can continue being a role-model or influence, but I think God has a way of positioning new witnesses to carry on the role.


[edit on 18-10-2008 by saint4God]

I know how hard it is to witness things like this but after she died they found that her brain was 1/3 the size of a normal human brain she was functionally brain dead the whole time nothing and no one could have improved her condition,sad but true ,she had absolutely no hope of recovery or rehab .Her responses were merely autonomic responses lacking any consciousness.umm

We keep them alive longer because we don't know what their purpose is. We were given this life for something that is beyond our comprehension. To give up on life is to give up on the struggle that is our purpose in life.

But that's not to say that we should be afraid of death. Not at all. We should embrace death, especially when we choose to die for the truth, for freedom and liberty, and for fighting against oppression, tyranny, and evil.

That is why, when they decide to wage war against us, we shouldn't flinch from our chance to stand for liberty and freedom. We should rise up and answer the call, and embrace it, regardless of the cost, even if the cost is our life, because this life is a mirage, an illusion that has become, not a struggle for noble ideals, but of slavery and wickedness and idol worship of money and false power.

All evidence indicates that Jesus Christ was Ceasaron, also known as Esau (Egyptian name for Jesus, meaning son of Isis )
The last Pharoah of Egypt, Ptolemy XV.
The child of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra
(the self proclaimed Virgin Goddess Isis)
The founder of the Holy Roman Empire and the biggest lie ever told.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

reply to post by invisiblewoman


One of my problems with this whole idea that her brain was 1/3 of what we use now is that most likely we use less than those before us. Our intelligence has definately declined. So, by that comparison that is used for Terri, we should ALL be eliminated due to our lack of brain use

If I hadn't seen for myself that she was able to respond specifically to the question over and over in favor of living, then I will admit to having fallen for what I was told through news that has its own agenda for being biased. Have caught myself doing so many times... this just wasn't one of them



[edit on 18-10-2008 by justamomma]

I've sort of found that strange too. Some would rather take round after round of chemo, and radiation, all which really suck, than just go out the natural way. And a good number probably torture themselves this way, and end up dieing anyways, doesn't make sense. A lot of it could be family too, I've read some near death experiences where people feel like they're in heaven, but sort of realize that by going to heaven, they'll leave their children behind so they turn back. I haven't experienced it so I'm not going to try and explain lol.

I think Jesus healed in a way that helped their quality of life, if the condition was chronic maybe he was just trying to be nice so the duration of their stay could be more pleasant, lol. Really though, I think at one point Jesus gives sight to a blind person. This can be understood in a way meaning that he gave spiritual perception to someone, not curing them from physical malady.

heaven is a myth created to control you. do good= be rewarded. if you're a naturally happy person, when you die, your brain floods with serotonin and you experience a euphoric "angelic" death.

reply to post by governmentsecrets


Not everyone believes in the orthodox Christian conception of heaven just an fyi. I'm sorry if you've had bad experiences with organized religion, seems endemic these days.

reply to post by Discotech


Because not everybody is going to Heaven. Do you think that Adolf Hitler, John Wayne Gacy, and Eileen Wuernos are going to heaven? Probably not.

Only 144,000 are going to Heaven anyway.

Many more people are supposedly going to be resurrected on a paradise Earth.

I won't get out the bible right now and look up chapter and verse because whenever religion is brought up it turns into a pissing contest because certain people let there ignorance be the standard by which they cling to no matter what.

And I don't want to argue. I said my piece. Believe what you will. Take care.

yea okay, only 144,000. and who decides them? your god? give it up. you're relying on text written by morons over 2000 years ago. its over. you have no case.

Blueracer, Do you know who the 144,00 even are????

I think I have a better grasp on it than you do.

reply to post by governmentsecrets


If you are certain that you are right then why resort to sarcasm, name calling and insults? What I said about the pissing contest stands.