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You are Dreaming.

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posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:17 AM
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I just wanted to break the news to you in case you didn't realize that life was a dream, and you are the dreamer.

I could be just full of crap, but I'll take my chances that I am right on this one


Enjoy the dream my friends.




posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


If this is a dream what will happen when I wake up?


I disagree. Life isn't a dream. It's more like a joy-ride.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


Let's spin it this way, this is a dream, which lasts a lifetime.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


That's a pretty strong statement to make without providing any kind of defense or evidence in your favor!

Presuming you are correct, how would you explain not being able to fly? If you know it's a dream, why can't you control it so that you can do whatever you want?



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:48 AM
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If this is a dream, and I the dreamer, you are my creation... no?
This
is
a
six
liner.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by Alexander_Supertramp
 


Well, lets not jump to any rash conclusions, I do have evidence that life is a dream. I didn't just jump here per say. If I believed life was a dream, I would simply state in fact that this is a belief. I know it is. So in knowing, that statement is what we will examine.

First of all, I have had dreams which have come true. And that is so old school that I won't worry about it when I say, you are also likely to have had a similar experience with this phenomena.

Secondly, I have also been able to utilize this little skill called dream control, and change a dream with it. You should check it out, it's l33t. I bet you have dream control to. At some level, you do.

Thirdly, it just so happens, that I have had this type of dream control during a dream, that one day later came true. And in having said experience, I have seen the changes happen here.

At a personal level of experience, I have certainly changed a dream, before it came true, and observe those changes as they happened "here".

So to get to some framework of reference, as to how this reality is a dream, and somehow, you, me and all who read this post are also dreaming it...

We need to look at what a dream is.

What is a dream?



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by Haiku
 


Well Haiku,

If that were true, then all of us alleged dreamers are the creators of each other dreamer we encounter. In a relative way, through synchronicity we can quantify this into a potential known.

You will find, there is something called synchronization, where we, as beings who dream, reach a state of unified thought, or unified consciousness. A state where all parts, become one whole.

So in that unified state, yes you are correct. That state has some hip term called oneness. In this universe, there is oneness. Where a part becomes one with a whole.

I can elaborate more if you wish.

You are a part of something that is one.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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A dream? I would have to say that a dream is any particular sense-perception, except pain, which occurs during sleep.

I have had many weird dreams, some of which have indeed come true to a certain extent. As far as controlling them, I have only been able to do so if that dream is repetitive over a period of time. By having the same dream I eventually can control which way the scenario unfolds, but I have never been able to (as far as I can remember) control or alter a new dream.

I'm looking forward to seeing where you're going with this..



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 


I've seen this movie before!

Was called The Matrix


www.imdb.com...



[edit on 18-10-2008 by Chadwickus]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by Alexander_Supertramp
 


I'm simply pointing out relationships, and dreaming has a relationship with who we are as a conscious being.

Let's roll out a few facts about dreaming.

Dreams are thought. If we are to look at matter and conclude that energy and matter are the same, we have to look at a dream, and conclude that thought is the energy.

Thought, an ability that we have as consciousness, as dreamers, to project a reality in the form of thought based language. This expression, this thought can expand into something we call a dream.

So when I say dream, I am really implying thought, but a particular style of thinking, by which your thoughts create the reality of the dream.

That is, thought projects itself from you as a dreamer, into a dreamlike reality you call a dream, however if physics could apply, we need to call the walls, the floor, the matter of what that particular dream appears to be made of, to be nothing more then an advanced form of thinking.

So if thinking creates a dream, and there is a relationship to dreams and thoughts. What is the relationship between the dream, and the dreamer?

Are you creating that dream? Yes/no.

Let's expand on dreaming and say there are some dreams, rather... some thoughts which come true, or become this reality.

Those dreams, or thoughts, are called precognitive dreams.

If you can relate, and follow this train of thought. What is this reality, if we see it first in a dream. In that dream, what is the matter, the energy?

There are some sayings I enjoy.

"For those who dream, there is reality."

"For every dream, there is a dreamer."

"Thought creates reality."

I am open to all manner of discussion on these topics. We can look at thought, and how even right now... thought is creating reality if you will.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 02:32 AM
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I think I understand where you're coming from, but it sounds to me like you are saying that dreams, which are indeed thoughts which the dreamer creates, are thoughts in and of themselves. I may be misreading you and if so please correct me.

Not every thought is a dream, but every dream is a thought. Of course reality is made of thoughts, because without a consciousness to tihnk about reality, there would be reality to exist. But, that doesn't make reality a dream, it makes reality subjective. Each individual interprets particular sense-perceptions in specific ways, unique to him/herself. Dreams are also unique, but dreams are not based in sense-perceptions, dreams are based on reflections of those sense-perceptions.

I could argue that if you had no senses in which to percieve waking reality, you could not dream. You would have no basis of contorting or imagining a difference. For example, if you have never seen an ultra-violet ray with your own eyes, you could not dream of one. Would that not prove that dreams, although thoughts, are nothing but the minds reflection and contortion of what has already been percieved?

Even further, I could say that dreams which fortell the future are not precognitive, but merely coincidence. If you have an average of 3-4 dreams a night over the course of 18 years, thats about 19,710 - 26,280 dreams. Account for all the possibilities of experiences you may have in the future, is it not logical to assume that the probability is high that at least a couple of these dreams will appear as if they came to pass?



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by YouAreDreaming
 



Doesn't this very train of thought terrify you in some small way? It (if you truly believe it) means that you have already willingly hopped out of the driver's seat of your individuality and free thought, and settled into the passenger seat of predisposed 'oneness' where you take on a supporting role in your own life...

I refute no one's thoughts here, but new age type thought is odd to me. However if the theory that we are all connected 'oneness' is correct, shouldn't we fight to break away?



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 02:59 AM
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reply to post by Alexander_Supertramp
 



Here we start to get into the thick of the matter, subjective reality, and objective reality.

Objective reality is also Physical Reality. I am sure you have no problem in your belief and knowledge system to view the matter around you and call it physical.

The second reality, subjective reality is also Non-Physical Reality, as it is composed of conscious thought.

We have two aspects of reality, objective and subjective. Subjective reality is you, it is me... it is everyone reading this thread and beyond who have consciousness.

The way we interface with Physical Reality, is through a mind, which takes physical sensors and transforms energy wave patterns in the form of light, sound, touch, taste, smell... and computes that moment into a holographic projection based on sensory data.

So in fact, this text you are reading right now, is not even the "real" text at all. The light you are seeing, is not really light. The smell you are smelling is not really smell. What you are experiencing, is your mind creating a subjective overview of reality, projecting it outward in an illusion of dimensionality, but the end product of sensory reality, is simply thought.

Subjective reality however, is our true reality. And it is purely non-physical, and of the mind. Reality through the subjective sensory apparatus of our body, is merely a holographic re-creation of translated perceived energy waves.

Reality is a thought based response to sensory data. Our minds give it reality, convince us that the projection of computed sensory data is a correct match for the current frequency pattern the sensory body is interpreting and experiencing.

There is a subjective relationship to this "reality" and thought. And that relationship is, we can only ever touch this reality as a reflection of thought. What we really experience is our minds reaction to sensory data, and a thought induced re-creation of this thing we call reality. We experience our reality through this thought process, as thought. Most people will never even consider or bridge that simple observation, and assume their reality they are experiencing is not the holographic response, you know what I mean.

Now lets start to bridge objective reality and subjective reality through dreaming.

We know that our mind has an ability to re-create reality based on sensory reactions to energy patterns emerging from this objective reality.

We trust that our senses are synchronized with these energy patterns so that in our best ability, the reality we experience as a reaction to this information is as close a match to the energy pattern emerging from physical reality.

When we dream, we also enter a state where by our dreaming apparatus mimic sensory data, to sense and re-create a dream based on the emerging thought waves which then make up the dream reality.

We mimic sensory abilities in a dream, to interpret thought waves which emerge in a similar manner, as our physical reality.

In the end, the dream delivers an experience, in a similar manner as this reality, where by we have a wave of information, and translate that information into a subjective view of "reality".

Here is something we can do very easily to prove that our mind creates this reality in a sensory recreation. Simply close your eyes, and the visual reality goes away. Open them and the mind continues to re-create the sensory reality.

Now you said you have had dreams come true, and I guarantee you others here on ATS also have had dreams come true.

As a person who has had these experiences, and through exploration of dreaming from a conscious and lucid perception, I have been able to also realize I was dreaming, be aware that I was dreaming in a dream and have full waking consciousness in a dream reality.

It's called lucid dreaming, conscious dreaming... you already know about it.

Well, precognitive dreaming is a part of the dreaming spectrum, and I have had lucid or cognitive dreams, which occurred in this precognitive spectrum and those dreams have later become my reality here.

Hence, why I say here is a dream. From the anecdotal evidence brought by this experience. Now to further the point, I have changed a dream in this spectrum, and observed those changes happening here.


Imagine being in a dream, fully aware you are dreaming. And taking action, to change the dream by say, inducing a shape on something as a marker.

And what would you say, if in this reality you encounter that dream, and the induced change you made happens here. Does that help bridge the realization and gap between the original dream, and the current manifestation of it, as this reality?

If you could change a dream, and see those changes happen here... what would your conclusion be, about what here is?



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by Haiku
 


Some good points, how can we as individuals be separate and unique when we are part of something that makes us one.

If we are one, lets look at some metaphors in physical reality which help connect the dots to this statement.

Did you know, that the sun is part of you? That water from the earth is also part of you? As an individual, you are made of many, many parts. You are an assembly of atoms, molecules, DNA, cells, advanced cellular groups forming organs, muscles, nerves, skins... and ultimately what you see as yourself, the individual.

However, as individual as you think you are, you are still a part of cellular, molecular and atomic mass. The energy of the sun is also the energy of life, it is the energy the mind is using to project reality internally. We are fueled by the sun, in the form of sugars from plants. So the sun is a part of us, and we are a part of the sun by this synergy.

Well, we are also part of an Earth, which is part of a solar system which is part of a Universe. So, the Universe as infinite as it appears, is the whole of which we are all a part of, and there for one with.

We are individual, but symbiotically linked to everything as a part of everything. You can start to see past the body, and see the universe it is attached too. That is the connection, the oneness.

And as consciousness, I feel we are all connected by these relationships.

I hope that helps. So yes, I have a scary thought that I might actually be only a part of a greater whole. And that all parts of this whole, is everyone else.

Scary, or beautiful depending on how you see the oneness.

I don't think that is new age, I think the illusion we struggle with is that we think we are separate from this universe, and not a part of it. Which is not true.

We are a part of it, as it is a part of us. Unified, connected and a part of.

Correct me if I am wrong in that analogy. Prove to me how we are not a part of it, and how we are separate individuals from it.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:13 AM
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(Edit: This was my original post befor you began to further put forward more ideas into your first few posts and I fell behind due to eating)



First of all, I have had dreams which have come true. And that is so old school that I won't worry about it when I say, you are also likely to have had a similar experience with this phenomena.


Precognitive dreaming isn't really going to be a huge sway for you trying to convince people that 'this' is a dream, as old school as it may be. I've had precognitive dreams many times, but never on a scale bigger than myself and never about anything more than items I have misplaced or obvious outcomes on my daily routine.
I'm curious as to what extent and scale of precognitive dreams you've dreamed up?



Secondly, I have also been able to utilize this little skill called dream control, and change a dream with it. You should check it out, it's l33t. I bet you have dream control to. At some level, you do.


Dream control, by that do you mean lucid dreaming or a conscious dream?
I've had a decent amount of these myself, but never too involving, due to the fact I will wake up within a short time after I have realized that I was dreaming. Again, what extent and scale have they been?



Thirdly, it just so happens, that I have had this type of dream control during a dream, that one day later came true. And in having said experience, I have seen the changes happen here.


You could easily chalk that up to anything from acting on your dream(s) so that they come true, not on a conscience level. Even to some coincidence or misinformation from your dreams, changing small details in your mind so that they apply to the scenario you're currently in.
By "see the changes happen here" do you mean this 'dream' that is reality?



What is a dream?

My opinion is thus, it's nothing more than images, and other constructs of familiar shapes and sounds that you've encountered in your life. But, there is no real definition for what a dream is, just the opinions of the people who attempt to put such a abstract concept like a dream into terms people can understand.


It seems as the more you post on your concept of reality and dreams, the more it seems that you sway yourself away from the certainty you had on your OP and a few other ones.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:37 AM
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Hi Forest,

Thanks for the reply, I'll share my views, and ideas on this topic. All we can do, is exchange information and experiences, and look for commonality between our experiences to understand the relationship between the dream, and the dreamer.



Originally posted by Forest
(Edit: This was my original post befor you began to further put forward more ideas into your first few posts and I fell behind due to eating)

Precognitive dreaming isn't really going to be a huge sway for you trying to convince people that 'this' is a dream, as old school as it may be. I've had precognitive dreams many times, but never on a scale bigger than myself and never about anything more than items I have misplaced or obvious outcomes on my daily routine.
I'm curious as to what extent and scale of precognitive dreams you've dreamed up?


Well, you already have anecdotal evidence of precognition through your own admission that you have had this type of experience. The old school thought is we can't see the future, ever... impossible so precognition based on that thought is false.

However, I will argue as a person who has had precognition, that it is very real. I may not understand it, wanted it, or desire it, but the experience has presented itself for my evaluation.

I have gone very deep with this experience, in my own personal journey to understand it, I have studied dreaming for over 20 years. My experiences with it parallel other peoples experiences. I dream something, it happens later. Sometimes very literal, in that I experience everything in first person, from my perspective in a dream, which later occurs exactly here, and feelings of deja vu, memory of the dream all persist here during that realization and connection.

I went through a period of lucid precognitive dreaming where I attempted to map the dreaming spectrum, as from my experience with dreaming, it seems to be layered and structured in a frequency/density way where certain layers or levels depict a certain aspect of the dreaming spectrum as a whole.

The precognitive layer, or frequency... what ever we can call it, is one of these focal points that I targetted during dreaming.

I mapped layers, induced changes and watched changes happen here, when a dream would later come true.

Now to further some points, not every layer becomes this reality, not every dream becomes reality, and I dream (as do we all) on many layers at once, and it seems our conscious waking mind can only linearly perceive this multi-layered spectrum in parts.

It's like a DVD, where it can have information written on each color frequency from the visual spectrum. Where the DVD reader can read from all colors, our conscious mind likes to read from one color at a time when we dream.

So, my experimentation lead to full spectrum dreaming, with the purpose of changing precognitive dreams. And from that experimentation I will share that I have changed a dream that was precognitive. Those changes did happen here, and more then once.

To put stories to all the dreams and outcomes would take far to long then this summary as there are many.



Dream control, by that do you mean lucid dreaming or a conscious dream?
I've had a decent amount of these myself, but never too involving, due to the fact I will wake up within a short time after I have realized that I was dreaming. Again, what extent and scale have they been?


From general non-precognitive dreams, I can control a dream to be anything I imagine, after all, dreams are thoughts.

In precognitive dreams, I do find that the control changes, there seems to be resistance to dream control, and this could be because at that frequency, many dreamers are present and we create checks and balances. However, if there is a will, there is a way and having full lucid conscious knowing in a precognitive dream ultimately leads to our ability to influence that dream.

I do acknowledge it is very resistant and only slightly responsive to change. It seems like there is a filter, a rule set or a control in place.

Not like the dreams on other layers which simply conform to any thought I have.

That said, I have changed a dream, those changes have happened here. I can get into some evidence later on.




You could easily chalk that up to anything from acting on your dream(s) so that they come true, not on a conscience level. Even to some coincidence or misinformation from your dreams, changing small details in your mind so that they apply to the scenario you're currently in.
By "see the changes happen here" do you mean this 'dream' that is reality?


Let me put an example in place, in some cases during my mapping phase I would induce a shape, like a triangle or square on a surface of a dream using dream control. In a few cases where that dream was precognitive in nature, and I induced said shape... those shapes happened here.

How do you know you are dreaming? You have to prove it to yourself. That is the law of the land. That is what I have done, many times in dreaming. Proven to myself, that it was a dream, by changing it to validate my self-realization. When those changes affected this reality, the purpose of the exercise was proving to myself that "it" was a dream.

At least that is how I stumbled on the reality is a dream realization, by proving to myself during a dream, that it was a dream. The fact that proof occurred on a precognitive dream is why I plunged myself deeper into that madness. Fun times.




My opinion is thus, it's nothing more than images, and other constructs of familiar shapes and sounds that you've encountered in your life. But, there is no real definition for what a dream is, just the opinions of the people who attempt to put such a abstract concept like a dream into terms people can understand.


Perhaps, however having a billion dreams myself, I can tell you that dreams are more then just random images and thoughts, they are a part of who you are, as a conscious reality. They are a part of you.

They are organized patterns of thoughts which convey a non-verbal language. A language where by the reality is the spoken word, not the words spoken in the reality.



[edit on 18-10-2008 by YouAreDreaming]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:41 AM
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It seems to me that this thread is in the wrong topic. To be in a topic that focuses on conspiracies, the OP has not once shown any theory or evidence of any conspiratorial events. Somewhere in the T&C's it's been pointed out that to post in a conspiracy topic, the OP should at least point out some kind of conspiracy inherent in the post.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by Forest
 




It seems as the more you post on your concept of reality and dreams, the more it seems that you sway yourself away from the certainty you had on your OP and a few other ones.


All I can do is just share ideas and experiences. If by making that statement, you are asking me if I doubt that this reality is a dream?

I will answer, this reality is as much a dream, as all the realities I have experienced as dreams. Dreams and reality go hand in hand, however as a consciousness, the relationship is not always apparent. It has taken me a very long time to even accept the notion that this reality could in fact be a type of dreaming.

In the end, at least in my summary of experiences with it, the evidence supporting that it (reality) is a dream, is overwhelming in my life.

There is a big door and bridge that connects reality to dreams, and precognitive dreaming is the key. Take a look at your own relationships with this type of dreaming, and focus you attention on the reasons.

If it is as I say it is, you can direct yourself to the same realizations I have had by having experiences similar to mine. I don't think any of this is unique to me at all. I feel we are all potentially able to raise our awareness to this relationship.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 


The conspiracy clearly is any belief that reality is not a dream. And any attempt to hide that fact.

We know that the elite may already know this information and keep it deliberately hidden from the masses in fear that it may empower us to a level where they cannot control us.

The elite create dis-information to counter this awareness, and what the heck, spray chem trials and use HAARP to technologically suppress this knowledge. We know that the US/China/Russia all have had psychic branches of military research. Psi-Tech, project starman...

China clearly suppresses higher-self knowledge and religious practices such as falun gong. The elite are very much into the occult, although I like to think of dreaming as a natural, not occult process.

We are kept in ignorance, and this may very well be the path to freedom.

Actually, its because of the types of dreaming that I have, that I feel very connected to conspiracy. I have long believed this knowledge is perhaps very ancient and a guarded secret. Our true freedom may only come from unlocking and understanding this mystery.






[edit on 18-10-2008 by YouAreDreaming]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
reply to post by Alexander_Supertramp
 


.... I do have evidence that life is a dream....


Did i heard that sentense again? :LOL: .... last one who started like this didn't provide any single piece of evidence in huge thread ...

So here's your chance .... provide some evidence if you said you have it .... And opinion doesn't count



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