It is disgusting, and this is something rightwingers have been throwing around for years.

How the heck can you support individual freedom and thinking, bi-partisan unity and religion if your going to call every person anti-american because they dont support your wars, because their critical of your party and because they stand for their own beliefs, not necessarily some fake rightwing pastor and "evangelical" who tells you that God told Bush to go to war.

Its hypocrisy, its disgusting and last but not least, its unpatriotic in itself.

Patriotism is flawed by nature because it denotes taking a "side". Two countries can be patriotic and yet at war.. which one is right? Two political parties who are divided, using patriotism as a motto is flawed as well. Patriotism to your country over your religion and vise versa were the original meanings of a patriot or a non-patriot. To love and defend your country regardless and to no end. Add in ethics and theories and you are diluting the true meaning of love of one's country. Define for me what acts are patriotic? Putting out the flag? Voting? Arguing ideology for the good of mankind? Benevolence? Charity? I believe you can love your country with out doing anything at all, but what constitutes a true patriot?

I could ask you the same question about Obama supporters. They seem unwaivering as well. Don't both parties want what they think is the BEST for this country? Could people actually sit down and go through the fine points without attacking each other? No one is a fortune teller and can tell you certain things will happen. In hindsight sure. Bush made mistakes. Does that mean this Republican will too? most likely, but you don't know the circumstances that might play out if a Democrat won either. You didn't get to see a Democrat handle 9/11. Why are people so angry? Don't we want either one to be successful? Each party thinks their ideologies are better for the country. Look at the issues not the party or the person... look at the ideas they put forth. Look at their records and history. Vote from there.

Seagrass how can anyone look at anything they say when everyone lies to us now days ...They lie ..the media lies ...everyone is lieing .

Not one of them for the last 16 years has told us anything that is the truth.
Daddy Bush lied everytime he said read my lips .
Clinton lied about everything too ........I didnt have sex with that women ..(Oh my gosh)
Bush lied everytime he opened his mouth .

I mean what do we do ..go with the one who is the worse liar or the best ?

Originally posted by seagrass
I could ask you the same question about Obama supporters. They seem unwaivering as well.

About Obama I don't know, I'm talking about the republican party compares to the democrats. Democrats kept losing all the time. Jay Leno always makes jokes about that, quite funny ones.

Don't both parties want what they think is the BEST for this country?

I don't think so, both are selfish, it's just lately, republicans are far worse than the democrats.

The dual party "system" is a big mistake.

I agree it is a mistake, It has turned into a football game or wrestling match instead of "balance" as it was intended. Complete with tshirts, and next there will be body paint.
The Democrats won with Clinton, he wasn't perfect either. The government is lied to by the higher rings. It's a trickle down. We don't trust our government anymore, but that shouldn't mean we can't trust most of our people, or the smaller people in government. Everyone speaks of civil war being the only course, but we could never win a war with the weapons they have today. We made our country strong and big and powerful, and with that power comes corruption when used in the wrong hands. It happens with people too, because we are human. We abuse our power when we don' t know how to handle it. But that doesn't mean you can't love your country and the people in it. Try to find some balance. Each one makes the whole, and only together can we change it. We do need reform in our government. Our economy is important too, but we can do with less, we have before, and we were happier then. No one will listen to the arguments if it is only for a "win". Once the game is over in November, perhaps people will actually start "talking" again.

It's not just everybody isn't perfect but they're a bunch of liars. My biggest problem with the republicans is that they always run on the basis that they have higher moral ground, things like religion, patriotism/nationalism, abstinence, pro-life, when it's all empty rhetoric. Republican don't do what they preach, they have double standard when it comes to moral value.

I mean democrats are about environment, the economy, it's not about morals, if they're inconsistent about them, well it's bad, but republicans are far worse, they're inconsistent in practicing christianity, and in patriotism.

What kind of patriots are more pro-big business than pro-the common people?

If it's about who "lie less", it's definitely the democrats. But who wants a government that "lie less", that's just pathetic. Obama and Ron Paul do seems like a different candidate, but personally, I don't trust anyone, who knows. I just don't want another hypocrite republican in the white house. Those are moral and religion values that the republicans are monkeying around, and those means a lot to me.

Morals and religion aren't what I consider to be Republican only policies. Republicans as I was taught are Less Government first. Republicans don't want Government deciding how to run a farm, how to run your business, how to do most everything. Republicans see Democrats as wanting more government. Government handouts. Medicare, Welfare, Nationalized government run Healthcare. Republicans are afraid of Obama, because they think once he gets in there he will make this country RUN by government. This is the biggest difference I see in the parties. There are Republicans I know who have had to register Democrat in order to get a teaching job, due to Unions. There are state run agencies who do not want to hire you unless you are a Democrat. Democrats act as if they are "concerned with the welfare of all" and they want the government to run all the little agencies that help take care of those people. It is seen to be a "city" concept. More government funded parks, transportation, bridges, etc. Republicans who feel they should take care of their own land, own business, own cities, don't want to have to pay taxes for the building of those large city concepts. Here in Portland Oregon, they get funding for Trams that only are used for medical people to ride back and forth from their special parkades. Those are the kinds of things that make Republicans mad. Republicans are usually not in the big cities. Oregon for example is a Blue State only because of Portland and Eugene. The REST of the state is highly Republican. I think this is the biggest wedge in the parties. County vs. City.
Here is another example of how Republicans view Democrats.... After Katrina, the people were complaining about FEMA. In the country when we have a bad storm, we get together and sand bag, we clean up the mess ourselves, and when it's over, we decide how much we can fix ourselves before we turn a claim into the insurance company. We don't expect the government to bring helicopters in and save us. But also in the country we aren't heavily dependant on aid when things go bad. I'm not saying our floods are as bad as Katrina was, but the idea is what I am trying to get across to you. What republicans see is Democrats whining about wanting their handout from the government. That FEMA wasn't big enough or organized enough for their benefit. I know plenty of "Modern Republicans" who don't want Roe vs. Wade overturned. I know plenty of anti religious (anti organized) republicans.
I am a moderate. But I know plenty Right Wingers. I have to listen to them often, and sometimes daily. This is just what I have noticed over the years as the biggest problem.
You act as if Sarah Palin and McCain have this in the bag... The polls don't say so.. but do we trust the polls? Sarah is popular. She is a fresh face and some of the Republicans are just very happy to have some pride again, as many were/are very disappointed in Bush.

Originally posted by seagrass
Morals and religion aren't what I consider to be Republican only policies.

To you it's not their only policies but to me it's their MAIN policies, just I have stated, abstinence, pro-life, anti-abortion, etc.

And they are MONKEYING around with moral values and I will not accept that. The republican party should be hold accountable and I don't believe, not even a little, that McCain is different from his party.

As for the democrats, it's not like they'll win because they're the better party, it's just that they're the less evil of the two and especially since democrats run on economic policies.

edit: fix format error

[edit on Sat, 18 Oct 08 by Jazzyguy]

Give me an example for understandings sake. What have they changed? Abortion is legal. Abstaining from what? Sex? Who can't have sex? Teenagers?