What if you're wrong??

He does show himself to every individual ..it is just that some do not see it ..or they give it a shrug as coincidence ..or they just dont see it period .


NO ONE told me about the Lord and no book was read to me about him ....I saw him when I looked at Nature in Alaska and I swear when I asked who did this ...I heard him say I DID >...I just looked up at the sky and knew who it was .....when I was only about 4 years old ...It was not until later that I learned more .

I know it sounds nuts ..but true ..

reply to post by Simplynoone


No it isn't nuts at all and in fact this experience is more common than people realise.

Looking at anything in the environment such as the Sky is looking at the nearside of the Disc of your Vision that the Universe appears on and on the other side of that disc is the Light in the form of a Disc.

The colour of a clear sky is Blue and Emerald blue around the horizon, and the colour blue in The Matrix identifies an Import program.

This is why in ancient days those who were in the know regarding the Matrix looked skyward when making changes to the program or world.

All the functions and registers in The Matrix are colour coded.

Behind the Blue Mask you call the sky lays another mask that is Black.

Just because no one today understands The Matrix is Not a good reason to reject any knowledge regarding this.

If they do they run the risk of making war with The True Mind or Life.

Not a good war to pick because only one can win, and that is The True Mind or Life ....LOL...

So your experience as a Child was perfectly normal but you cant expect the Dead to understand as they Know Not Life, but only the Primate!

According to the Ancient writings to be dead is to be asleep but I speak of The True Mind and Not the Primate.

Others may laugh at you, but they Laugh in Ignorance of Life or The True Mind.

When the end of their story comes, then they shall sober up and cry out to Life in all manner of ways!

And Life being Full of Love that Primates lack teaches them instead of Condemning, as a Primate would Do....

What if none are correct as god (if he,she,they,it exists at all) is completely beyond the realm of human understanding?
[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Its pretty much inconceivable that we come to the point of "proof" but the thread is hypothetical and I, as a christian, if proven wrong or right would be relieved. There is so much fear towards the unknown, and our only defense is hope and faith. The truth sometimes hurts, but it is eventually more comforting than what you do not know.

reply to post by juveous


I am not trying to appose you thoughts, but I am interested in what you wrote.

Quote:- There is so much fear towards the unknown, and our only defense is hope and faith.

Jesus said "The Fearful shall Not enter."

Why are you or others fearful ?
Who made you feel this way ?
For in Love there is No fear at all!

Faith is Trust!

Not believing in an interpretation or any unfounded belief.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

I believe in God, but I don't believe in the Bible. What happens to me? God goes from intoleranant, eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth in the Old Testement. To a very tolerant, turn the other cheek and love thy enemy in the New Testement.

The Christians have it right though. If they are right then they have led a good life and will get rewarded. If they are wrong then they have led a good life and can die a very happy, guilt free death.

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by juveous

 

I am not trying to appose you thoughts, but I am interested in what you wrote.

Quote:- There is so much fear towards the unknown, and our only defense is hope and faith.

Jesus said "The Fearful shall Not enter."

Why are you or others fearful ?
Who made you feel this way ?
For in Love there is No fear at all!

Faith is Trust!

Not believing in an interpretation or any unfounded belief.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

Fear of death is a very human feeling. Even Jesus was fearful of his being made a martyr.

Jesus on the night of his arrest prayed to God and said that he is frightened and if there was another way please deliver him from this punishment. He went on to say that he gives himlelf completely to Gods will.

I don't know the exact phrasing, but that was the jist of it. Fear is not a sin as long as you trust that God has a plan for you.

I don't know which verse you took your quote from so I can't really comment on the complete text. I do know that in the Bible it says those who die with sin will fear the presence of God and those souls cannot enter. God is a being without sin, therefore a soul with sin cannot stand to be in his presence, therefore will be unable to enter heaven.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by jd140]

Originally posted by jd140

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by juveous

 

I am not trying to appose you thoughts, but I am interested in what you wrote.

Quote:- There is so much fear towards the unknown, and our only defense is hope and faith.

Jesus said "The Fearful shall Not enter."

Why are you or others fearful ?
Who made you feel this way ?
For in Love there is No fear at all!

Faith is Trust!

Not believing in an interpretation or any unfounded belief.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

Fear of death is a very human feeling. Even Jesus was fearful of his being made a martyr.

Jesus on the night of his arrest prayed to God and said that he is frightened and if there was another way please deliver him from this punishment. He went on to say that he gives himlelf completely to Gods will.

I don't know the exact phrasing, but that was the jist of it. Fear is not a sin as long as you trust that God has a plan for you.

I don't know which verse you took your quote from so I can't really comment on the complete text. I do know that in the Bible it says those who die with sin will fear the presence of God and those souls cannot enter. God is a being without sin, therefore a soul with sin cannot stand to be in his presence, therefore will be unable to enter heaven.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by jd140]

Jesus said "No Man hath ascended into heaven, save him who came down from heaven"

How can the Soul go to heaven if it is already there?

The Primate or flesh is on earth.

Jesus said " He who hath found the World, has only found a corpse, and he who has found a corpse is superior to the World!"

It was Not the Christ that was fearful but the body as Jesus said to one of the others on the cross "To day ye shall be in paradise with Me".
But hang on a second the Grave is Not Paradise!.

It was The Carpenter that called out.

It was The Life of God that Raised the Carpenter, who descended into perdition and was raised on the third day.

As you know he said to those who tried him "Destroy this Temple and in 3 Days I shall raise it up again. So the Temple is the carpenter Jesus. So who is "I" well I is the Son of God, Who is the way the Truth and The Life of God The Only begotten Son of God, and is Known as The Man Child.

I had been announced Brain Dead by doctors in 1973 for longer than 30 minutes and I can assure you I don't have to guess what happens in what primates call death, but to me death is a myth introduced by human primates!

So I have been through the first death and as my Lord told me in person Not on Earth I shall remain with his Father for Ever and Not die.

I have also been to the marriage supper and sat with Jesus at his table and ate and drank from the Holy grail. I sat that close I could touch him.

This happened in 1996.

There is still another 1,000 years in front of you before this Program finishes once more as it is Not the only time this program has been plaid.

Proof.... In the Genesis The Lord God tells Adam (A'Dam) and Eve to go forth and multiply and replenish the Earth!

The Word Replenish means........ To fill up again!

This tells You, it is Not The First Time, the Program of Earth has been plaid!

In fact it can Not be numbered how many times this program has been plaid before......

Ground-Hog Day ????? or 7,000 years instead of one day.... LOL.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller



What does that have to do with my answer to your question about what jesus said about fear? I'm not exactly sure what your reply is intended for.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

 

What does that have to do with my answer to your question about what jesus said about fear? I'm not exactly sure what your reply is intended for.

I am not trying to be smart or be a Know it all because that is strictly Not the case.....

I mentioned about the Marriage supper and me having experienced the first death just to let you know I know first hand about these matters....

Where you said Quote:-

[ Even Jesus was fearful of his being made a martyr. ]

This is completely False as there is No such statement in the bible saying by anyone including Jesus that he was or would ever be a martyr.

There are only 3 references in the bible to the word "martyr" and neither of them relate to Jesus at all....

This shows that many do Not understand or read the writings correctly but make their own assumptions... No offence intended here.

The other statement by you Quote :-

[ Jesus on the night of his arrest prayed to God and said that he is frightened and if there was another way

please deliver him from this punishment. He went on to say that he gives himlelf completely to Gods will. ]

This also is completely unfounded, as Jesus Concern was Not about his death!

It was the primate Jesus that was grappling with the notion of the Program structure being turned inside out and what was going to happen to the primate Jesus.

But to understand this you have to understand more about how your world is created.

Again there is Nothing at all in the bible (original Greek and Hebrew text) that says Jesus was frightened of dying or Death.

If you are referring to laying down your Life this does Not mean Dying!

To lay down your Life is to Lay down and Sup with Jesus Christ.

This is a Function to do with The Matrix as I call it.

You can read all about the measurements of the Lattice work of the Matrix in both The Book of Ezekiel and The Revelation of Jesus Christ or as it is called today The Revelation...

You also stated Quote:-

[ I don't know the exact phrasing, but that was the jist of it. Fear is not a sin as long as you trust that God has a plan for you. ]

Oops looks like you are laying down conditions to Jesus Christ, about what should be expected regarding yourself.

I can guarantee he has a plan for you.... But wit is the pan he has for you?

Believing that the tooth fairy is going to give you $ 1,000,000.00 at Christmas won't bring about this for you now will it?

What you expect will happen shall Not happen and what you don't expect to happen shall happen...

But good to hear your thoughts so keep writing to the thread.

I just hope you are Not offended by my answers...

No Offence is intended, quite the opposite in fact.

If I am wrong about something and you see this then I would expect you to voice your opinions... I am always looking for reproof even if I have to change my thoughts.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

AlexG,

Before I really begin I want to say that the older I get the more atheist (or at least agnostic) I become - so please don't immediately brand me as "just another fuzzy-headed Christian".

Compared to some of the threads I've read on ATS this one is overall very civil in tone and people seem to be trying as best they can to explain their positions clearly. There are relatively few people who seem to be here just to cause trouble and stir up controversy. I suspect that most of the posters in this thread are thoughtful people seeking the truth and I am sure you are one of them.

Originally posted by AlexG141989

It isn't carnal minded thinking, its logical thinking. You wouldn't believe a defendant is guilty if there was no evidence against him would you??? In this case there is no evidence for God, so why would I believe in him???

This is the second post in this thread in which you have mentioned logical thinking. I believe it is important to remember that while logic is a useful tool to assist humans in our thought processes, it is not a way to ascertain the absolute truth of things. Logic has its limits and you are a bit past its capabilities when it comes to matters of faith and truth and love and a whole bunch of other irrational things. For example - I do not love my children for logical reasons. No argument about how our brains evolved to strongly bond with our offspring in order that we would care for them for the extended period necessary for their survival will ever explain how it feels when my daughter squeals my name and runs over to hug my knees when I walk in the front door after work. Logic just is out of its element there. Even if someone formulated a perfectly formed fully self-consistent argument about the nature of my relationship with her - it just wouldn't matter because such a thing isn't useful to me. Truth is bigger than logic and that's all there is to it.

I can't touch, or taste gravity, but there is evidence that it's there. In fact we KNOW that it is there. We can't however say that about God.

As for needing evidence of God's existence in order to believe it - that is unfortunately just not the case. Belief is a choice. If there was incontrovertible proof that the cosmic big kahuna was out there then that choice would be pretty effectively removed from us and we would lose much of our ability to choose whether to believe or not. If the proof was as concrete as you seem to require then only a raving lunatic would be able to disbelieve it. Again - that's just not how it works.

If you dont believe he wont come and dwell with you

Do you not know how childish this sounds???

If by childish you mean foolish, then yes I'm sure that did sound very foolish to you. Please don't succumb to the arrogance of thinking that simply because something doesn't make sense to you, that it therefore doesn't make any sense at all. It's all too easy to criticize things we don't understand as just being foolish.





[edit on 22-10-2008 by total_slacker]

reply to post by total_slacker


Now who in their Right Mind, can question your Thoughts, you have presented so well here?

I will certainly not disagree with you and I only have 4 Grand children.

Wisdom comes with age if we will allow it.....

Jesus said "No Man hath ascended into heaven, save him who came down from heaven"

How can the Soul go to heaven if it is already there?

The Primate or flesh is on earth.

This is a prime example of how Jesus is teaching the same things that Buddha or Krishna teaches.

Let me try to expound. From my experience with eastern teachings/practice, it is that we must over come ego and seek the true self. It is held, that we are really all enlightened "Buddha's" or essences that simply chose to forget.

They method of remembering is a letting go of human perceptions, which is why I believe, in meditation, one is to seek stillness from the human senses and emptiness of the mind so that human or ego based thoughts do not pervade the journey unto realization. The more one becomes accustomed to this state of nothingness, the more the truth reveals itself. You find an inner guide which at first seems like god because it has all the answers, yet you soon realize that this teacher is really you without the mind game of human perception to cloud its vision. It can be looked at as ascending the tree of knowledge unto pure unbiased realization.
Ultimately, you realize you are always in heaven, and to be on earth is a mere act of free will/hypothetical illusion of perception. You realize that your time here whether it be a moment or a century, is all the same, relative, the ego dies, and you are eternally humbled with whatever experience becomes you.

The only difference I can tell is the idea of hell, its different for each person, some believe 3-d is where hell is possible so you can acquire demons here, and some believe hell is a place you go if you dont live right. I look at it both ways, that if you dont live right, just meaning, if you dont question, contemplate and reason until content answers are arrived at for the deepest of questions, then you simply have to try again, this can be looked at as another incarnation into the realm where hell is possible, so in a sense, you go through hells until you finally realize you were in heaven the whole time.

This is also easy to look at in the sense that, God is all there is, if god or source created everything, then, quite literally, God or source is all there is. We imagine that we are disconnected and create our own labels for things that in turn creates our sense of realities when really, its all going on inside god's head in absolution so to speak.

As far as the after life, I cant speak on that, as Im sure ultimately everything gets cycled back into source, yet I am not sure of what hypothetical hierarchies there may be afterwards, perhaps it is up to our will what we do after this life; after all, we are the source. That is the greatest mystery for me.

Originally posted by psychedeliack

Jesus said "No Man hath ascended into heaven, save him who came down from heaven"

How can the Soul go to heaven if it is already there?

The Primate or flesh is on earth.

This is a prime example of how Jesus is teaching the same things that Buddha or Krishna teaches.

Let me try to expound. From my experience with eastern teachings/practice, it is that we must over come ego and seek the true self. It is held, that we are really all enlightened "Buddha's" or essences that simply chose to forget.

They method of remembering is a letting go of human perceptions, which is why I believe, in meditation, one is to seek stillness from the human senses and emptiness of the mind so that human or ego based thoughts do not pervade the journey unto realization. The more one becomes accustomed to this state of nothingness, the more the truth reveals itself. You find an inner guide which at first seems like god because it has all the answers, yet you soon realize that this teacher is really you without the mind game of human perception to cloud its vision. It can be looked at as ascending the tree of knowledge unto pure unbiased realization.
Ultimately, you realize you are always in heaven, and to be on earth is a mere act of free will/hypothetical illusion of perception. You realize that your time here whether it be a moment or a century, is all the same, relative, the ego dies, and you are eternally humbled with whatever experience becomes you.

The only difference I can tell is the idea of hell, its different for each person, some believe 3-d is where hell is possible so you can acquire demons here, and some believe hell is a place you go if you dont live right. I look at it both ways, that if you dont live right, just meaning, if you dont question, contemplate and reason until content answers are arrived at for the deepest of questions, then you simply have to try again, this can be looked at as another incarnation into the realm where hell is possible, so in a sense, you go through hells until you finally realize you were in heaven the whole time.

This is also easy to look at in the sense that, God is all there is, if god or source created everything, then, quite literally, God or source is all there is. We imagine that we are disconnected and create our own labels for things that in turn creates our sense of realities when really, its all going on inside god's head in absolution so to speak.

As far as the after life, I cant speak on that, as Im sure ultimately everything gets cycled back into source, yet I am not sure of what hypothetical hierarchies there may be afterwards, perhaps it is up to our will what we do after this life; after all, we are the source. That is the greatest mystery for me.

Behold the echo of my own words, but more articulated than my own words.

Truly we are of The One True Mind.

Many refer to the Human Mind but truly the so called Human Mind is Not of the Human but is a Droplet of The true Inner Mind.
When the story ends as to say we merely go to the Outer Mind to observe to merely return to the Inner Mind through another Program of The True Mind.

You are 101% Correct.... All religions tell the same story, if only the Human Primate has the courage to find this out.

Note All the Geometry of The True Mind can be found Not only in churches, but in all temples just displayed in their own cultural approach.

While I was in China for 9 to 10 months, only a short time, but I visited many different temples and shrines and was amazed at the similarities to Christian art, or should I say expressions of the Language of Life or The True Mind in the Form of Geometry.

Originally posted by karl 12
What if Polynesian,Rastafarian or Eskimo religion is the right one?
[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

I'm not particularly worried about Rastafarianism being true. If it is, instead of going to hell we'll just get really high and listen to Bob Marley.

As someone who doesnt believe in god, Id be absolutely chuffed if it were proved he exists. Id happily admit I was wrong, and start giving thanks to god, allah, buddah, or whoever it happened to be.

There would be no hypocrisy or contradiction. I dont believe in god as there is no evidence or proof. If there was, anyone who still didnt believe (not that itd be 'believing' at that point) would clearly be... well... stupid.
(please dont take that out of context and imply im stupid already because theres so much proof already. Im yet to see it.)

Even as an 'Athiest' I can admit Id love for god to exist. Who wouldnt love the idea of living on eternal in some wonderful place, being reunited with lost loved ones etc etc.

Id also love it if middle earth existed and i could chill out with gandalf and aragorn too.

Id like to think the opposite were true too, and that anyone religious would admit that 'that whole religion thing was a bit of a silly story wasnt it?'

Originally posted by Simplynoone
He does show himself to every individual ..it is just that some do not see it ..or they give it a shrug as coincidence ..or they just dont see it period .


NO ONE told me about the Lord and no book was read to me about him ....I saw him when I looked at Nature in Alaska and I swear when I asked who did this ...I heard him say I DID >...I just looked up at the sky and knew who it was .....when I was only about 4 years old ...It was not until later that I learned more .

I know it sounds nuts ..but true ..

I dont find it nutty, and i do respect someone whos found god on their own, and not just because its what mum and dad brought them up to believe.
But can I ask how how you knew which god it was that spoke? Might it not have been buddah speaking?

reply to post by HeHasNoName


It is the Human Primate that has it all wrong.

The Word God, is Not understood by anyone today, in its True Context.

The understanding of God today, is indeed a Strange God, invented by insecure primates and in fact is Not the God of the ancients at all.
but this was predicted in the Book of Daniel.

There at Two Parts !!!

One......"word".... the Word was God, G O D this is a Component of the All.

Two......"Life" and The Life is the Light of Man.

In the original Geek text that the Roman Church Stole the Word "Phos" when translated into English means Sun Light or any other Light from stars Fire and Electric lights etc.

When religious people try to prove the existence of God they can't because they do not Know God or what God is....

Many when talking about The "Word" God are doing so in ignorance as it tells you in their own bible in The Book of Acts, Chapter 17 verses 23 to 34.

"To the Unknown God whom therefore you ignorantly worship him I declare unto you"....... and so on....

They are Not really talking about God the "Word" as this is a Geometric processing Machine... Oops did I just say machine? Yes I did....

But instead, they are Talking about The Lord God, that is the Lord over God, the Geometric Creation Machine.

The Lord God, is the Life and is often given the name Jesus Christ, which is Not a persons name, as Rome would have you believe, but instead Jesus Christ is a State of Office.

The Whole collection of Hebrew and Greek texts actually has nothing to do with the Primates of A'Dam but instead is about the metamorphosis of the Soul which called Man and The Birth of The Man Child which is in fact not a human primate but is a lattice work of Light that is grafted into the Soul....

The "Son of Man" is Not a human Primate but is "The Man Child" revealed in the book of The Revelation.

Human Primates have in fact stolen the Name Man and called themselves man falsely when in fact the primates are of the Family of A'dam.

So no wonder the World is Confused and we have the Roman Empire to thank for this.

Jesus said that the Wicked one would come and Deceive the Whole Earth and this has been fulfilled.

It was The Roman Church that deceived the whole World called Earth.

Now I guess Humankind will call me a Heretic but if it means being called this by knowing "Life" then so be it.

But I refuse to accept the B.S. of Primates on Earth and that includes my own flesh.

I trust and believe in Life, and Not the Flesh and blind reasoning of Primates on the Earth.....




[edit on 24-10-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

Here is a radical thing for a Christian to say: In order for my faith to be reasonable and rational, I must be willing to entertain the idea that I might be wrong. This is summed up in the following statement: Truth is more important than anything I believe.

Just because I sincerely believe something does not mean that I am right. Therefore earnest pursuit of the truth is a higher priority than dogmatic assertion of "MY" reality.

I really, really think I am mostly right. Most of my research bears out what I believe. But it would be presumptuous to say that I cannot be wrong.

What would I do if I found out I was wrong? Adapt - and in a hurry.

Either party would have to accept that knowlwedge and move forward.


I would prefer the fairytale dream of heaven because then we would have no worries, but if god doesn't exist, then....well.....here I come blackness.

I think the majority of people who believe in heaven are afraid of death whether thay admit it or not.


And as for the first reply. Athiests have nothing to lose. Believers do.

reply to post by OuttaHere


I'm not taking issue with anything you've said but it does bring up an interesting question. Why is it that we have this fascination with learning the truth of things? It seems to me that given the choice between an ugly truth and a pretty lie - wouldn't we be ultimately happier with the lie.

In the context of this thread in particular - if the truth turns out to be that we face nothing but an end to our existence and a cold grave, then why not spend our days enjoying the fantasy and live assuming that we have an eternal reward waiting for us at the end of the line?