Girl, 9, jailed after Fort Myers classroom outburst

reply to post by redhatty

Does anyone actually know that schizophrenia cannot be diagnosed in a 9 yr old? The DSM-IV-TR does not allow it. Neither does the ICD 10.

The DSM is merely a guide,not a rule.
And one form of schizophrenia,Schizoaffective Disorder,is diagnosed in childhood and usually before age 13.

reply to post by marg6043


Look, I KNOW that there are ways to get around the medical diagnosis books. Like I said, we KNOW my son is schizophrenic. But the books do not allow for that diagnosis to be made for a person under 18.

The doctors will instead make a diagnosis of extreme bi-polar with psychotic tendencies, hallucinations, etc. which in the end, works out to be the same thing, but with 8-12 ICD 10 codes instead of 1.

And it is so much easier, when the child is in a treatment facility or special needs school to just say schizophrenia, rather than those 8-10 other diagnoses that really turn out to be the same thing.

But legally, schizophrenia cannot be the diagnosis until the age of 18. I know for a fact, I have been living it for years now.

why aren't we just tasing these kids? i mean a little electricity never hurt anyone...maybe pepper spray? wow, seriously folks... there has to be a better way...what do the parents (or parent) do at home? what technique works there? or is there ay technique (or parents at all)?

reply to post by redhatty


I understand, but in my case with that littler girl, when she was put in the classroom the principal just straight told us that she was indeed schizophrenic, so I guess is at the discretion of the school or just the personal preference of the principal on how to tag it, at least in my GA. small town.

I fully understand what you mean.

reply to post by redhatty


Childhood schizophrenia is extremely difficult to diagnose. It takes a pediatric psychiatrist to diagnose it. The ICD 10 is the standard diagnostic, but it doesn't cover every single thing out there. It CAN'T cover pediatric psychiatry nearly as well as adult, because children are so much harder to diagnose.

As for the DSM-IV-TR, it's a statistical manual. Both of these are references, but they won't cover every single situation. Pediatric schizophrenia is diagnosable. Even the Mayo Clinic says that it is, but that it's extremely difficult to. Most doctors won't make the diagnosis because it IS so hard to make.

Diagnostic challenges
Childhood schizophrenia is difficult to diagnose for a number of reasons. Because it's rare, doctors not specializing in pediatric psychiatry may have limited experience with diagnosing schizophrenia in younger people.

Behaviors or thoughts that may appear related to delusions or hallucinations may simply be the product of a lively imagination, especially in younger children. However, these behaviors or thoughts would usually not cause impairment.

Some signs and symptoms of schizophrenia overlap with those of other mental health or developmental disorders. In fact, your psychiatrist will want to rule out these disorders before making a diagnosis of schizophrenia:

Bipolar disorder
Schizoaffective disorder, a condition with some manifestations of both schizophrenia and a mood disorder
Severe anxiety disorders
Severe major depression with psychotic features
Post-traumatic stress disorder
Substance abuse disorders (particularly coc aine and methamphetamine)
Delusional disorders
Medical disorders that affect the brain
Personality disorders
Autism spectrum disorders

www.mayoclinic.com...=tests-and-diagnosis

[edit on 10/18/2008 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by cbass

I understand that the kid probly needs a good ol' arse whoopin' but Arrest???
Come on America you have jumped the Shark. I liked you better when your name was Nazi Germany.

So your solution is to beat the mentally ill and you criticize the Police for doing the only thing they could?

“The girl committed two felonies with victims wanting to pursue charge. There was a long history of attempts to deal with the child through the family and the school. This was the end of the line, and it is a very fine line we walk. Now, she can be mandated by a judge to get the assistance she needs.”

This sounds like the best thing that could have happened. Far better than an "good ol' arse whoopin'". She is not misbehaving, she is mentally ill. She could hurt somebody or herself and does not sound like her Parents are dealing with it.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Zaphod, I really am not trying to get into a pissing contest over it. You can believe what you want.

Until you live it, you can't truly understand. I am an insider looking out, while you are an outsider looking in.

But to bring this back to the article in the OP, your post almost proves that the child was probably NOT clinically diagnosed as schizophrenic, because of the need for pediatric specialist, reluctance of Drs. to make such diagnosis, etc.

If the mother had already been though all the Drs. necessary to get that diagnosis, then it's stands to reason that the child would not have been simply placed in a special needs school run by the state. It also stands to reason that the family would be involved in the VERY necessary counseling, etc.

Again, now that the courts are involved, I hope that both the child and the family can find a treatment facility that will truly help them all.

Who said I was after a pissing contest? I'm simply showing that the Mayo Clinic, one of the most respected clinics in the WORLD says that you can diagnose childhood schizophrenia.

I may not have schizophrenia, but I have known many people that have had it, and have dealt with it. My mother spent years working with people that have it, and I have learned through her experiences, and through the doctors she worked with. I DON'T know what it's like to go through it, but if every single thing I have looked through says that you CAN diagnose children as schizophrenic and one person says you can't, sorry, but I'm going with the doctors. Especially if one of them is something like the Mayo Clinic.

OOPS!
I didn't see that it was a special needs(alternative) school, but, is it for handicapped children or JUST disciplinarian measures, like bad behavior?

The ones I know of, (I thought) dealt with violent and problem children and A LOT of their issues that are too much for them,I think, are solved using disciplinary actions. Boot camp, etc... Is that true?

I still stand with all my other opinions on the matter. Parents need to do WHATEVER it takes to help their special needs children.
If they didn't have a job, medicaid is CERTAINLY available to them for doctors.

Kudos to everyone who responded for thinking through this story. When I saw the title I really thought it was going to be nothing but "ZOMG martial law!!!" posts.

In de olden days, they had insane asylums for the schizophrenic adults. Where did they stick the insane kids? Nowhere, they didn't have kids getting schizophrenia back then. And they probably don't have it now. The previous poster who hinted that these creeping diagnoses are the result of big pharma trying to sell more drugs is probably right.

Given that the kid was already diagnosed with the nonexistant ADHD and ODD 'syndromes,' my guess is they have been doping the kid for years now with ritalin, prozac(now available in a delicious cherry-flavored syrup), and who knows what else. Now add the flouride in the water, the hormones in the meat, the mercury in the shots, the melamine in the milk, the aspartame in the soda, the artificial colors and flavors, and at the same time take away communal play areas and PE at school, and you end up with some whacked-out kids.

As far as the 'triggering' event for this incident goes, it was probably when she found out in a school reading assignment that Prince Charming intends to marry another prince that pushed her over the edge.



[edit on 18-10-2008 by starviego]

reply to post by starviego


Thank you for pointing out the obvious.
Never underestimate Big Pharma. It isn't like Big Pharma would just go away if we all were to get healthy on our own. They would just "diagnose"
some other "disorder" like" CDS "chronic disagreement syndrome".
Oh sure, you haven't heard of it. It is a terrible illness whereby the victim finds him/herself in a state of disagreement with people in their lives.
You can usually spot this in the adolesent years. 9 out of 10 teenagers suffer from this syndrome. Medication is what they need. If your teenager starts dis-agreeing with you to the point where it becomes a problem you might want to get them dianosed!!!ASAP!!!!

OR.......... You could use the cbass tride and true method of parenting...............nahhhh. Get em' on meds!!!

reply to post by starviego

In de olden days, they had insane asylums for the schizophrenic adults. Where did they stick the insane kids? Nowhere, they didn't have kids getting schizonphrenia back then. And they probably don't have it now.

The kids were stuck in with the adults,just as they were in prisons.In poorer countries this still happens.
pb.rcpsych.org...
www.newsweek.com...


And i'll say again,the DSM view is a guide not a rule and its certainly not a law.If it was so the same would apply for every country that has a psychiatric board,but it doesn't.Apart from America,very few countries use the DSM codes.





[edit on 18-10-2008 by jakyll]

Considering all the "poisons" that are put into our food and drink these days,
( i.e. MSG, Aspartame & those caffeine laden energy drinks etc,)
I really wonder about the accuracy of all these diagnoses of some type mental disorder in these kids. The doctors are a part of the problem.
They are afraid to speak out about this because they fear being criticized.
(words from the mouth of my own doctor.)

Their brains are being seriously disrupted and yet it seems that big pharma gets the benefit by creating more drugs to disrupt them further.

We are all just game pieces on the big board of those who rule the world.
Money alone cannot be their motive. They have all of that they could ever want.

Redhatty, schizophrenia is heritable. I take it that your certainty includes this info. Otherwise - take a good hard, serious look at what your son is eating. These neurotoxins that are added to our food can and do wreak havoc on young brains. (as well as old ones)

[edit on 19-10-2008 by OhZone]

reply to post by OhZone


Great point. I am in the process of buying more "natural" foods. I will not let my kids drink anything but water when they are thirsty. No soda, Kool-aid, energy drinks, just plain ol' H2O. And guess what? They love it. They will refuse soda at this point because they are so used to water.
There is no telling what kind of awful crap is in our foods.
Learn to eat whole foods. Little off topic but not really.
Alot of these "disorders" are man made to be sure.

cbass

Though i agree that many drugs used as supposed cures can actually cause problems,and we have all kinds of stuff shoved in our food,i still say your method for handling such people is idiotic and ignorant.

On page 2 i asked you some questions concerning your 'pain' cure,care to answer them?



OhZone

I really wonder about the accuracy of all these diagnoses of some type mental disorder in these kids. The doctors are a part of the problem.

America is the worst for giving children drugs at the drop of a hat,but mental illnesses have been around for centuries and therefore they cannot be totally blamed on the unscrupulous men of the modern world.

reply to post by cbass


you are wrong. i'm sorry to say. i remember contracting encephalitis about 15 years ago. the subsequent infection ate the protein coating off many nerves in my brain, which then short circuited each other. it was a gradual onset, which had the accumulative effect of driving me insane verrry slowly. the more abusive someone was with me, the more suicidal and angry i became. i didn't hit people or spit on them, but i did go right off the edge of the map. in fact i was so distraught from even perceived abuses, that i do believe i made the infection worse with all my depression, anger and worry, none of which are healing emotions to have, but you don't know that when you're going through something like that. all you can feel is pain. so pain is not the answer for a crazy person. it'll just feel like more of the same.

my particular episode ended in a coma, and i had absolutely no idea why it had happened, what was happening to me before i went comatose and neither did my family. people assumed i was being assinine when in fact, i was going completely insane from fever and infection in my brain.

mental health issues are some of the most misunderstood and abused medical problems on the planet.

[edit on 19-10-2008 by undo]

reply to post by undo


O.K., I'll have to do a little back pedding. While I can see that not EVERYONE can benefit from a good arse whoopin, I do believe that there are alot of children that are in need of one before a drug is prescribed or a diagnosis made. Does that make sense? I hope I am allowed to grow from this. I do see your point and thank you for your input.

reply to post by cbass


jail system in the USA is on the stock market ; so the more felons they produce the better the profit of course; they falsely put people in jail for small things that in other countries it is not even a misdiminor, it is the end of the empire... ; they got so far away from people needs that even bush noticed and started driving around DC so people can see that he is real ( not battery president )