Girl, 9, jailed after Fort Myers classroom outburst

Sorry but my personal opinion is she does not have schizophrenia. Sounds to me, after reading about her actions, that this is just a kid who acts out and a parant that didn't disipline...rather took her to the doc and the doc gave her a label. Not to mention seen an opportunity to make money on meds.

Being in law enforcement I have dealt MANY times with people who have actual schizophrenia...and NONE of them...acted in this manner...EVER!

Say what you will...but I am going to say her disorderis called: BRAT....not schizophrenia

Originally posted by Clearskies
I think a lot of parents don't want to take personal responsibility for their children's behavior!
If the child had schizophrenia, it was THE PARENT'S responsibility to get her help.

The parents had got her help: the child was in a special needs school and she had been taking medication. You talk about "responsibility" and "behaviour" as if it's the parent's fault.

You can't wait for schools, mayors and government in general to come to you and fix everything.

What? You were expecting the parents to develop a cure for schizophrenia or something? Despite the child being in a special school and also having had drug treatments, you don't think the parents were doing enough?

[edit on 18-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by cbass


This is the result of our own system working against us the citizens and this instance failing our children.

I have witnessed first hand what a child of this young age and younger can do when put it regular classroom in schools that are not prepare to handle children with special needs.

Schizophrenia is ugly and when a child loses control only somebody With enough strength can control, them, they will bite, scream and attack anybody that they see as a danger to them, they will take up running out of control.

But due to again our system, children with special needs have to be able to attend regular classrooms by law.

But no funding is use to cover for the special needs of this children.

Then we are supposed as parents to allow our own "system" to use the "law" against our children when things do not got the way the "system' wants.

This despicable and the mother should sue the state for the lack of support that children with special needs deserve after all the "law" is the one pushing this children into schools and classrooms that can not "handle" them.

This the ugly fact that nobody wants to address.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by marg6043]

[edit on 18-10-2008 by marg6043]

She doesn't just have schizophrenia though. That's just one of the conditions that she has been diagnosed with. My mother worked for many years in a psych ward, and she DID see schizophrenic patients act this way. Most milder cases don't, but some do.

EVERYONE responds to PAIN and the threat of more PAIN.
EVERYONE!!!!! No exceptions. If you use dicipline wisely it will cure all sorts of "disorders".
When I was a kid we didn't get diagnosed, we got the crap beat out of us. And guess what???
IT WORKED!!!!! HA.

Originally posted by cbass
EVERYONE responds to PAIN and the threat of more PAIN.
EVERYONE!!!!! No exceptions. If you use dicipline wisely it will cure all sorts of "disorders".
When I was a kid we didn't get diagnosed, we got the crap beat out of us. And guess what???
IT WORKED!!!!! HA.

Reading your posts I'm not so sure.

I'm not sure whether your parents hit you too hard or not enough.

reply to post by cbass


Everyone? Then how are you planning to beat the hell out of someone like this?

In a discovery that could lead to better painkillers, scientists have identified a genetic defect in children who cannot feel pain. Sound like a blessed way to live? It’s not.

In Thursday’s issue of the journal Nature, scientists who found the gene describe six related children who have never felt pain in their lives because of the very rare disorder. The children come from three families with roots in northern Pakistan.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

A person in 1932 suffering from this defect drove a spike through their hand in a sideshow, and felt nothing. It's called congential insensitivity to pain with anhidrosis or CIPA. These people have been known to bite part their own tongues off because they can't feel the pain from biting it. They break bones and keep walking on them because they don't even know they broke them.

A child in one of these violent episodes like this child may not even feel pain if you smack her. I've met a few people with schizophrenia, and in some of their more violent attacks they didn't know or didn't care that they were hurt.

reply to post by Zaphod58


I think you are grasping for straws here. Yes I suppose you are correct, Not EVERYONE......but in this case, I can promise you that this can all be dealt with and problem solved in one afternoon.
What scares me is all of the adults in this world who were never the beneficiary of a good old fashion ARSE WHOPPIN'.

I can not tell you how many grown men I have had to be the surrogate "daddy" for and fulfill the obligations of the biological daddy or mommy, and measure out a healthy dose of something they somehow managed to go thru their entire childhood without recieving.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Don't make me be your "Daddy".
I already have four children and my hand is getting sore.

reply to post by cbass


I'd love to see you try to deliver an old fashing "arse whoopin" to someone in the middle of a severe schizophrenic episode. Oh wait, that doesn't exist does it, since you claim it can be beaten out of someone. I guess we should just turn you loose on the psych wards of the world and let you go around curing them.

Originally posted by cbass
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Don't make me be your "Daddy".
I already have four children and my hand is getting sore.

What, is that you're answer for everything? Hit it?

Kids acting up? Hit them. Mental illness? Hit them. Message board post you don't like? Hit them.

My honest opinion is that you getting beaten by your own parents appears to have left you with a few 'issues'.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


First off, I think you need to take me with a little bit more salt. Life is not as serious as you would like it to be. No my answer for everything is not to "hit it".lol.
I am simply saying that There is not enough discipline in most homes and this girl is clearly a victim of malnourishment of vitamin "D"
DICIPLINE.
Lighten up.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Sometimes people that have no experience with the type of problems children with special needs have can make comments like that.

I spend few years as a teacher witnessing the problems that school faces since the law to allow children with special needs and on state guardianship for bad behavior does to teachers and other children in the classroom.

I have seen from violence, to offensive exposure, to bites, running and screaming you name it.

And more often than not teachers are left alone to deal with this children in the classrooms.

But the law is the law and is all good and dandy.

Some need a good spanking but many needs a school that can handle their needs, but is not funding for them.

reply to post by machinegun_go_go

She is violent, her teachers cannot control her - and I'm sure they try their best with their limited powers. What else can be done?

She is at a special needs school.
These people are not just teachers they are also trained in dealing with the mentally ill.

If there is a student who cannot be controlled then a department such as Lee Mental Health is to be called.But DCF spokeswoman Erin Gillespie said that and other interventions never happened.It has to be asked why wasn't procedure followed.

reply to post by jakyll


Well funding is the problem, when you have what should be qualified personnel be able to handle this type of children needs and they can not then something is missing.

I was trying to figure out if the school she was at was for special needs or not.

Here in my neck of the woods we have to accept this children in regular classrooms as the state have limited access per county for special needs schools.

And while we have a behavioral (without mental incapacitation) school and one for pregnant teens we don't have one for children with mental challenges, this students are incorporate in regular classrooms.

I think outpatient psychology has de-emphasized that there are some people who are not going to function normally in society period, and to attempt to force them to do so is in no one's best interst.

Give you an example, a grocery store I worked at a while ago decided to hire some clinically retarded individuals in order to perpetuate equal opportunities. It was a nice idea on paper but in real life didn't work. They could physically do the job, but had to have someone standing over them, basically making decisions for them. It ended up costing the company more in the long run and was often inconvenient to the customers.

Now I have nothing against these people, most of them were very nice and compassionate, but they just weren't suited for the workplace.

The same may be true of this girl, and others like her, if she's legitimately mentally ill. She may be better served not in school at all but I'm not going to pass judgement on whether it was her parents or the system that "failed" her here.

Wow

Does anyone actually know that schizophrenia cannot be diagnosed in a 9 yr old? The DSM-IV-TR does not allow it. Neither does the ICD 10.

I do know. I have a schizophrenic son who has been in a residential treatment facility since he was 14. But he is only 17 now and while we all KNOW what is wrong, they still cannot diagnose him as schizophrenic because of his age.

schizophrenia usually starts to manifest during puberty, becoming more obvious in early adulthood. I seriously doubt that a 9 yr old is in puberty.

As for the arrest. It was a last choice option. And I personally know how hard it is to make that choice, I've had to do it.

Maybe with the courts help, the mother can get her child into a facility that can truly help. They are not cheap. The one my son is in costs me $5000 a month AFTER insurance.

I hope that the proper help is found for both the family and the child.

reply to post by cbass

EVERYONE!!!!! No exceptions. If you use dicipline wisely it will cure all sorts of "disorders".

You obviously don't know the first thing about mental illness.

How can you discipline someone who isn't even living in the same reality as you??

How can pain cure someone who hallucinates??

How can pain cure someone who suffers from Dementia or Alzheimer's,two illness caused by progressive decline in cognitive function due to damage or disease in the body and aging??

Prolonged childhood abuse is a major factor in causing Dissociative Identity Disorder.(multiple personality) You think suffering more pain and abuse will help these people??

Do you think women who suffer post natal depression should be beaten into shape??

Schizophrenia CAN be diagnosed in children under 13. It's estimated that it only affects one in 40,000 children. It usually is a later onset illness, 15-30 is the most common ages for onset. A child has to have the symptoms for at least 6 months and other disorders must be ruled out before the diagnosis is made, but it CAN be diagnosed.

reply to post by redhatty


Well we have in second grade a girl here in my neck of the woods that was diagnosed as schizophrenic As I was in the classroom doing translations for another student the child had one of her episodes and started screaming, she became violent, bit the teacher and took off running as she screamed that a dog was gong to get her.

The child already had record of her mental illness since very young and other schools could not handle her so they were trying the schools were I was at the time.

Unfortunately after that episode she was take out of the school and to another school she went.

Sad.