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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 01:19 PM
Euro zone central banks to swap Greek bonds for new ones

Euro zone central banks agreed to exchange their holdings of Greek government debt for new Greek bonds as part of a second bailout program to help the highly indebted nation, German newspaper Die Welt reports, citing people with knowledge of the matter.

The bond swap will generate a profit, said the newspaper report, because the ECB and euro zone central banks will receive bonds with a nominal value of around €50 billion, higher than their current holdings, and such profit would be distributed to governments via the national central banks. Governments then have the option to channel funds on to Greece.

The operation should be completed by Monday, and will pave the way for the bond-swap deal between Greece and its private creditors. The ECB and Bundesbank declined to comment on the report, which has not been confirmed.


How much would you say €50 billion of Greek debt is really worth?..

posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 09:43 PM
reply to post by pause4thought

Let me get straight, the EU wants other countries to buy bonds from Greece that actually are worthless so they can invest in Greece debt?

I guess somebody is going to work some magic and Greece will turn into gold overnight, or bring the myth of Midascoming to life and Greece will be turn into gold with a touch of a finger.

Or the globalist and profiteers of economies has always been morons and that is why our global economy is in craper, no wonder, right?

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 03:08 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Oh no, you didn't get it. Owning someone's debt actually means you are in charge. This is a true offer of sharing authority and responsibility that comes with it

Authority for sale. That's an interesting concept. Consume your authority now!

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 03:18 AM
Credit Suisse The Sequel: "Probability Of The Largest Disorderly Default Loss In History On March 20 Has Increased"

A week ago we presented an excerpt from Credit Suisse's most excellent piece "The Flaw" - merely the latest in one of the best overviews of the neverending Greek soap opera by William Porter. Yet every soap opera eventually ends. Although when it comes to Nielsen ratings, the denouement is usually a whimper. In the case of Greece, it will be anything but. Yet listening to the daily cacafony of din from Europe's leaders, who are likely more clueless than the average reader as to what is really going on, one may be left with the impression that there is a simple solution to the problem, and Greece may be "saved... in hours." It can't. In fact, as of today, Porter's s conclusion is: "we are left with a sense that the probability of delivering the largest default loss in history in a disorderly way on or before 20 March has increased relative to doing so in an orderly way."

As a reminder, Credit Suisse was the one smart enough bank which chose to completely ignore day to day newsflow out of Greece as it is literally noise with absolutely no signal. Wish we could say the same for FX traders. As such, CS' "view remains that, in any case, the chance of a disorderly outcome after 20 March is high, so to that extent the immediate events are not really central to our view, but of course are fascinating."

Very bullish... NOT.

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 03:34 AM

Europe stocks higher on U.S. data, Greek hopes

I say, what do we people know

European stock markets opened higher on Friday, with investors inspired by upbeat U.S. data the prior day and renewed hopes of bailout progress for Greece.

posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 07:35 AM
reply to post by DangerDeath

I love the way that we the tax payers in the US will help the Greece with a bailout but we are getting nothing for it at the wallet.

Funny, where are the protest? I forgot this is for the common good of all, after all we the tax payer have to save our banks.

Still I find funny also one of the comments in the site you posted, specially the one that refers to hope in a bottle for sale and the comparison to Greece debt, I think it was hilarious

edit on 17-2-2012 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 09:10 AM
88 million out of work and not looking for a job

88 million

That's how many working-age Americans don't have a job and aren't trying to find one. The increase in people dropping out of the labor market altogether skews the otherwise-positive unemployment numbers released last week. While the jobless rate fell to 8.3 percent in January - a three-year low - it doesn't account for this army of nonworking Americans.

So... when do these people rise up and march on Washington DC??

posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 09:42 AM
reply to post by Vitchilo

When their welfare and government assistance runs out, in the US I guess the government is now counting those unemployed that felt out of the unemployment radar but receiving welfare as having a job.

Because after all they are still getting some kind of monetary incentive.
They are getting pay by those that are still paying taxes.

posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 05:11 PM

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Vitchilo

When their welfare and government assistance runs out, in the US I guess the government is now counting those unemployed that felt out of the unemployment radar but receiving welfare as having a job.

Because after all they are still getting some kind of monetary incentive.
They are getting pay by those that are still paying taxes.

Marg I don't think those people are receiving any benefits and hence they are not counted in employment data.

Have a look at these articles as well on the US employment situation:

U.S. Unemployment Increases in Mid-February: Gallup

Big Miss Coming for February Job's Number?

posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 07:37 AM
reply to post by surrealist

Thanks for the links surrealist, remember I am just making jokes at how statistics are done in the US and how the media hype any numbers to make them look better.

posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 10:37 AM
It is Monday and nothing good to say. Checked Zero Hedge, Drudge, the Telegraph and Athens News. It all looks gloomy. I see no positive solution in sight. Oil is headed up and so is the DOW???

posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 11:48 AM
reply to post by AuntB

Don't worry, AuntB, everything is looking peachy:

Stock markets gain on Greek bailout hopes

European stock markets finished higher before a meeting of eurozone finance ministers that many hope will finalise a new bailout for Greece...

The UK's FTSE 100 rose 0.7%, while German and French stocks were also higher. Banks on the continent, which hold much Greek debt, rose - Commerzbank gained 3.6% and Credit Agricole climbed 2.5%.

European banks - including Deutsche Bank and Societe Generale - have been rising on hopes a deal may be reached to keep Greece in the euro. Germany's Dax and France's Cac indexes rose 2% last week, while Italy's main share index was up 1.1%.

Greece's stock market was also higher. It rose 3.4% last week - its fifth week of gains - on renewed optimism of a bailout...


Shh. Don't mention the context —

...Greek stocks lost 52% of their value last year...

(Source as above)

Two of the eurozone's biggest economies have fallen into recession, according to the latest economic figures.

Italy and the Netherlands both saw their economies shrink by 0.7% in the fourth quarter, the second consecutive quarter of economic contraction.

Germany had its first negative quarter since 2009 with a decline of 0.2%, compared with the previous quarter...


— etc., etc. It affects 'confidence'...

posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 01:30 PM
Japan getting worse... everybody seem to have forgotten about them...Japan's GDP is 18 times Greece GDP... but eh, continue to worry about Greece...
Freaking medias won't do their job yet again.

Japan logs record trade deficit in January

Japan posted its biggest ever trade deficit in January, topping the previous record seen during the financial crisis in 2009, Ministry of Finance data showed On Monday, underlining concerns that a persistent trade gap may undermine the country's ability to finance its debt.

The trade deficit stood at 1.475 trillion yen ($18.59 billion), against median market forecast for 1.468 trillion yen, marking a fourth straight month of deficit, as weak global demand and a strong yen hurt exports and robust fuel demand boosts imports.

Japan is so screwed... the only thing they had left... exports... and savings. Well guess what, exports? Down because of weak demand and strong yen. Savings? Going down because population is getting old and there's inflation.

Now if Japan were to blow up tomorrow for example, the MSM and all the ``experts`` will say that ``we couldn't have seen this`` OH REALLY???

And about welfare in the USA...
Report : Millions of jobless file for disability when unemployment benefits run out

The New York Post reported Sunday that as unemployment checks run out, many jobless are trying to gain government benefits by declaring themselves unhealthy.

More than 10.5 million people -- about 5.3 percent of the population aged 25 and 64 -- received disability checks in January from the federal government, the Post wrote, a 18 percent jump from before the recession.

When people can vote themselves benefits, they sure as hell will till the government runs out of other people's money.

posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 01:34 PM
Normally, when you are jobless you are de facto disabled

The question is whether it is a systemic or pandemic disease.
Should they be criminalized or helped. Because, we know from history, it was once a crime to be poor...

posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 01:39 PM
What about Japan? We never discuss Japan. It amazes me how Greece, the whole Euro zone and US economies headline but one never hears much about Japan. Granted they had a huge natural disaster that hurt their economy but Japan is quietly dealing with their economic issues.

Japan reported a record-high balance of trade deficit in January as last year's tsunami combined with floods in Thailand, Europe's sovereign debt crisis, slowing Chinese growth and a soaring yen to leave the world's third-largest economy with its first trade deficit since the last century. Japanese imports last month exceeded exports by ¥1.48 trillion ($18.56 billion), the Ministry of Finance said Monday. Exports fell 9.3 percent because of the disruption of supply-chain processes due to Thai floods, slower growth in China's economy and a weakening euro that made Japanese products more expensive. Imports fell 9.8 percent because of increased demand for energy imports in a country whose nuclear power production levels have yet to recover from the devastating tsunami and earthquakes experienced last spring. Prior to 2011, Japan had not run a trade deficit in 31 years.

It just amazes me the contrast between countries. The citizens reactions to economic issues. Some yell and destroy, claiming they want theirs while unwilling to give, yet another country quietly and steadily works to rebuild.

Credit rating agency Standard & Poor's recognized these issues on a note Monday re-affirming its negative outlook on the country's AA- sovereign debt rating, which suggested it might downgrade the country if it fails to begin balancing its debt load. Japan's current level of national indebtedness exceeds 200 percent of its GDP, the highest among industrialized nations.

And who is the IMF looking to for more funds?????
Japan and China agree to work together on IMF funding requests

The IMF last month said it may need an increase of as much as $600 billion in lending capacity. The US has said it will offer no more financial support to the fund, but Japan and China have expressed a willingness to do so if Europe itself first takes more steps to deal with its problems.

posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 03:35 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

That is so bizarre while I was typing about Japan you were posting about them also. I am glad to see someone else is watching them.

posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 08:01 PM
If Greek vote passes Buy Euro/$
If Greek vote fails Sell Euro/$
the wait is on

posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 08:40 PM

Originally posted by Surfrat
If Greek vote passes Buy Euro/$
If Greek vote fails Sell Euro/$
the wait is on

If there is a vote at all. Could be waiting a while.

posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 10:17 AM
Sooo, the loan sharks did not make an example

Eurozone approves new $173B bailout for Greece

Eurozone finance ministers sealed a deal Tuesday morning for a second bailout for Greece, including €130 billion ($173 billion) in new financing.

The finance ministers from the 17 nations that use the euro, known as the Eurogroup, gave Greece the funding it needs to avoid a potential default next month.

While this new deal provides some short-term relief for Greece, difficult days lie ahead as the government tries to trim debt to 121% of the country's gross domestic product by 2020. Greece's debt now stands at about 160% of GDP.

posted on Feb, 21 2012 @ 10:35 AM
reply to post by DangerDeath

Yeah right... till the new Greek government is elected in April and says WE CHANGE THE RULES!

Anyway, vote tomorrow in Athens.
Same Time, Same Place - Greek Labor Unions Waste No Time In Scheduling Tomorrow's Athens Protest

Starting at 4 p.m., the protest march is scheduled to coincide with a vote in Parliament on an emergency bill aimed at slashing state spending further through cuts to pensions and salaries, to which Greece is bound by its most recent bailout agreement." Parliaments is planning on further spending cuts? To what? Zero? Negative? And one can bet their bottom dollar, the tax collectors, already urged to increase their efficiency by 200%, will be present, and certainly not tripling their work output while peacefully consuming lungfulls of tear gas.

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