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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 03:33 PM

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by AuntB

The government probably were able to add some of their own spending on this one to make the numbers look "better than expected"

That has to be it because the DOW futures were down 100 plus but the retail numbers came in and we closed up. The news out of Europe is not good, I those the market would drop 300+ today.

posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 09:42 PM

Again folks, the bottom line is simple: You cannot continually borrow and spend more than you make, yet this is the game that governments have continually played for 30 years, and private businesses have attempted to "lever up" to "take advantage" of this without regard to the mathematical inevitability of this strategy's failure.

More dominoes may be about to fall in Europe. A new selling wave swamped government bond markets on the continent Tuesday, driving yields sharply higher in France, Belgium, Austria and Spain, among others. Despite its AAA-credit rating, France's 10-year bond yield soared to 3.68%, up from 3.42% on Monday and the highest since April. The yield has surged from 2.50% in early September. Belgian 10-year bond yields rose to 4.91%, from 4.59% on Monday.

Looks like the end game is near everybody. Since the Greek Government fell, things have been happening pretty fast now... A slow-moving inevitable economic collapse that is quickening, a death spiral

posted on Nov, 15 2011 @ 09:57 PM
reply to post by TheCoffinman

It is very true, you can not spend more than you make, but so far the US is been one of the few countries that can do this and still get away with it, even with the astronomical national debt we have.

Now when corporations try to do this they do it differently specially investing firms they take the money from one customer to pay another and themselves, so far only a few big firms has been able to do this and still thrive.

But others fail and become scandals, but one thing is for sure all of them play the same gambling game but their investors just rather live in lala land and think that is all good as long as their money is there.

But like the articles said in your links is all coming to an end, like I say corruption started with central banks made a home with Wall street and the fed in the US and then spread to the Experimental EU but eventually will come back home again is just a matter of time.

Meanwhile the EU experiment is now using Dictatorship measures and intimidation to keep the experiment from failing but fail it will.

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:51 AM
Profits protection by all kind of means.

Citigroup Said to Consider 3,000 Job Cuts as Pandit Trims Costs

This may sound ok if the company is suffering problems but when a company post earnings of 74 percent increase in third-quarter profit, you know that theis move to cut 3 thousand jobs is nothing but more greed motivated moves.

The reduction, equal to about 1 percent of the staff, is an estimate and may change, according to the person, who wasn’t authorized to speak publicly about the cuts. Among the jobs eliminated may be 900 from the division that includes the bank’s trading and investment banking operations, the person said. Citigroup, ranked third by assets among U.S. lenders, employed about 267,000 people at the end of the third quarter.

“As part of our ongoing efforts to control expenses, we are making targeted headcount reductions in certain businesses and functions across Citi,” Danielle Romero-Apsilos, a spokeswoman for New York-based Citigroup, said in an e-mailed statement.

I guess the CEOs will keep theri bonuses anyway they can.

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 09:01 AM
And the people spoke, yes in numbers the people in the US can change the system if wanted

(Updates with $4.5 billion in new credit union accounts in the ninth paragraph.)

Yes that is the amount of money that BofA, Citibank, Well fargo and others lost from the bank run because of increases on fees.

The bank to lose the most was BofA.

Is nothing worst than a scorn and unsatisfied customer

Bank of America Corp. retail customers are the least satisfied among clients of the biggest U.S. lenders and the most likely to defect to competitors, according to a Harris Interactive poll.

Nine percent of people with Bank of America accounts were “not at all likely” to continue to use the Charlotte, North Carolina-based lender, the survey, scheduled to be released today, shows. That is triple the rate of JPMorgan Chase & Co. customers and 50 percent more than Wells Fargo & Co.

Bank of America, the second-biggest U.S. lender by deposits, angered some customers when it announced plans to charge $5 a month for debit-card use. The firm dropped the fee this week after JPMorgan, the biggest bank, and No. 3 Wells Fargo abandoned the tactic.

You may think that BofA learn their lesson but that is far from the true as the greedy bank wants to add "other fees", this will push more bank runs and transfers of accounts to credit unions, the people will be the downfall of BofA greed.

Other new fees, including those for checking accounts, may push clients to credit unions, said Carol Gstalder, an executive vice president at Harris Interactive

edit on 16-11-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 09:02 AM
reply to post by marg6043

The whole business seems to be moving towards robotization and automatization. They don't actually need humans anymore. But they won't just say so.

This has nothing to do with their ongoing thievery, of course. It will keep going undisturbed.

Expect pandemonium soon.

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 09:10 AM
reply to post by DangerDeath

That is exactly what I was thinking when the news of Citicorps cuts was been addressed in the news, if the fat rats could just get away with having no humans employed they will just reap more bonuses for themselves at the top.

Greed will be the downfall of capitalism.

Now on another news.

Merkel-Cameron Clash on Taxes, EU Exposes Widening Breach

I see that the UK is not happy with some of the Merkel dictatorship rules and implementations.

Germany and Britain clashed over taxes and the future shape of the European Union, as the euro- area sovereign debt crisis exposed a widening breach between the U.K. and its partners in the 27-nation bloc.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel won’t let the U.K. “get away” with its refusal to back a financial-transaction tax, a top official in her party said today. Hours earlier, British Prime Minister David Cameron rebuffed Merkel’s call for political union in Europe, dismissing it as “utopian visions.”

Somebody needs to take that women out and for good she will be the death of the EUzone and the nations involved, She is becoming worst than Hitler was she is a poison when it comes to the economic health of the EU

“Germany and the U.K. are on a collision course,” Jan Techau, director of the Brussels-based European center of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said in a phone interview. “The clashes we see now about deepening ties in the EU have always been there, but the crisis makes them more visible. Now it’s crunch time.”

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:50 PM
Moody's downgrades 10 German public banks

Moody's downgraded on Wednesday its ratings of 10 German public-sector banks including BayernLB and Deutsche Hypo saying they were now less likely to receive state support if needed.

"The rating actions reflect Moody's assumption that there is now a lower likelihood that these banks would receive external support, if required," it said.

It noted that EU rules restricted support and that Germany had set up a bank resolution scheme.

Nevertheless it said the ratings of the banks, mostly what are known as Landesbanken, still incorporate a high expectation of support as they are ultimately publicly-owned and account for more than one third of lending and deposits.

The actions affected the senior debt and deposit ratings of the banks.

BayernLB and Deutsche Hypo both had their ratings lowered by three notches to "Baa1" from "A1".

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 04:58 AM
US banks are screwed :
Financial Stocks Catching Up To Their Recent Credit Weakness

We have highlighted again and again that the credit market has not been as comfortable as stocks with the US financial sector for the last few weeks and today it seems reality is starting to sink in as BAC trades with $5 handle and $MS a $14 handle back to one-month lows.


Very good news (if it ends up with people going to jail but I'm not holding my breath)

First Felony Charges Brought Against Robosigners

Up until now, fraudclosure and robosigning were both merely civil offenses, and as such the banks were actively doing all they could to bury any and all pending litigation under a large settlement umbrella, wash their hands of the whole affair and move on, with nobody in danger of actually walking the plank and certainly not in danger of going to jail. That has all changed as of now, following a Nevada Grand Jury handing down criminal indictments against two title officers employed by Lender Processing Services Inc. for allegedly directing and supervising a robo-signing scheme, in which documents filed in foreclosure cases were signed without proper legal review, Nevada Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto said Wednesday.

The full indictment is below. Needless to say every single Bank of America in-house counsel is feverishly reading this right now, as the feces just got real for both Brian Moynihan and Ken Lewis.

Yep all the big banks, BAC, JPMorgue, Citi and all are screwed if this goes throught. All of them have committed tens of thousands of felonies.

And you know it's real bad when the crooks in chief protects themselves from the other crooks :
Fed To Hike Current Coupon MBS Margins

But the move could provide an extra layer of protection for the Fed against the risk that a dealer bank goes belly up.

Protecting themselves from Jefferies it seems.

Europe is screwed :
Citi Chief Economist Willem Buiter: A Spanish Or Italian Default Could Happen In A Few Short Days

I think we have maybe a few months -- it could be weeks, it could be days -- before there is a material risk of a fundamentally unnecessary default by a country like Spain or Italy which would be a financial catastrophe dragging the European banking system and North America with it.


EFSF Spread Breaks 190bps Record As Europe Opens Weak

EFSF spreads broke 190bps for the first time - clearly signaling the market's perception of the AA/A as opposed to AAA/AA creditworthiness. French spreads traded wide of 196bps (record wides).

Italian spreads are breaking resistance and heading back to the lofty record wides of last week.

Oil skyrocketing to $103 a barrel... probably on Iran-Israel war fears + expectations of QE3.

France-Germany spread broke the 200 points...

Yields in a Spanish auction of 10-year bonds rose to an euro lifetime high of 6.975 percent and the country sold 3.56 billion euros ($4.8 billion).

Don't worry, all is good!


She's so full of it... She supports all of that.

Interest on the French 10 years bonds is at 3.812% and climbing...

Liquidity, Solvency, And Timing

There are clearly liquidity problems again, but they are directly tied to solvency. The Euro basis swap isn't getting worse because US banks don't have money to lend to European banks, they don't want to lend to European banks. Maybe we should be worried the Fed knows something we don't about how bad it is and are trying this ploy again, because it is one of the few things they can do to help Europe?

Europe must be really screwed if even the big Americans banks, backed by the FED don't even want to loan them money...

Italy Opts Not To Release Preliminary GDP Data As It Sets Off To Raise $600 Billion In Debt In 2012

We are trying to decide what is funnier: Italy cancelling bond auctions and telling the world it does not need the cash, even as its Treasury Director tells the world the country will need to raise €440 billion... that's €440,000,000,000 in cash, next year, or that as Reuters reported earlier, the country has simply decided not to issue preliminary Q3 GDP data.

Brilliant. They really want to give confidence to the markets... Not to mention, it seems to me the money needed in 2012 has gone up... last number we had (a week ago at most) was 200 billion euros, not 440! And they say they gonna go austerity? Mwahahahha.

Whatever You Do, Don't Look At The UniCredit Long Bond

But such is life when your equity is €14.5 billion and your total holdings of Italian bonds ar... €40 billion!

Real nice... when you consider they've got 929 billion EUROS in assets...or 1.25 trillion US$... or about 2X the size of Lehman when it blew up...

Juncker is actively trying to kill the EU (good) :
Has Juncker Gone Insane? Eurogroup Head Says German Debt Levels "Cause For Concern"

EU's Juncker says that German debt level is a cause for concern according to a German newspaper - RTRS
EU's Juncker says Germany has higher debts than Spain but 'no-one wants to know about that' - RTRS

Neat. Go Juncker!

California is screwed :


Surprise surprise... NOT.

And of course, french bond auctions today and there was Spain bond auctions too... they asked for 5.85%... and got 6.975%...
I wonder how much the French will get ... UK and US bond auctions too.

And of course, America broke the $15 trillion of debt.
edit on 17-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 05:07 AM

EU's Van Rompuy tells Monti he has full faith in Italy's ability to overcome problems, contribute to stability of EUR

UK Conventional Gilt auction for GBP 4bln, 5.0% 2018 Gilt, bid/cover 1.92 vs. Prev. 1.99

The UK got their 5% but the bid to cover was lower...

EU Task Force says Greece has EUR 60bln of unpaid taxes

German economy minister says Merkel alone in commitment for EU treaty change


German economy minister says opposes ECB buying of sovereign bonds

Well good luck with that.

German economic minister seems to be the only last sane person in power in Europe.
edit on 17-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 06:41 AM
Futures Tumble, Spreads At Record, Euro Drops On Another Awful Spanish Auction; More LCH Margin Hike Rumors

To summarize: Spain sold €3.56 billion euros of a new ten-year benchmark bond, well below the €4 billion targeted. The average yield on the bond was 6.975 percent, the highest paid since 1997, and almost 2% higher compared to the 5.433% paid on October 20.

The result: Spain Bund spreads are at a record 499 and about to pass 500 bps: the level at which LCH hiked Italian bond margins, and is resulting in another round of rumor of an imminent Spanish bond margin hiked which in turn would lead to more selling of sovereign bonds both in Spain and everywhere else.

French Bund spreads hit a record 202 earlier, a level which will be promptly taken out;

Uh oh...

Spain debt exposition...
Germany : 178B
France : 146B
UK : 101B
Netherlands : 76B
US : 58B
Italy : 32B

It's gonna be real ugly. Those banks don't have the capital to cover the margins hikes so they'll need to sell sell sell.

Fed's Bullard says Europe is too far away to affect American households

Total bull.

Fed's Bullard sees 3-3.5% growth in 2012, warns on Europe

Total bull.

Fed's Bullard says US banks do not have great exposure to Europe, but there are some unknowns

Yeah what's a few hundred billions...

edit on 17-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 07:42 AM
Interesting read.

A few days ago there was a headline telling us that 2.500 American marines will be stationed in Darwin, Australia.

Reinhardt explains what is going on with Australian mining. America is issuing express visas to unemployed Americans to go to Ozzyland and get well paid (for now) jobs.

As for marines, I suppose they're there to ensure it isn't Indonesians or Chinese rushing to this new Eldorado.

Ahahhahah Here it is

A Marine Base for Australia Irritates China

DARWIN, Australia — Fresh from announcing an expanded American military presence in Australia, a plan that has angered China, President Obama came to this remote northern town that will be the base of operations and told American and Australian troops it is “the perfect place.”

“We are deepening our alliance and this is the perfect place to do it,” said Mr. Obama, speaking in a steamy air force hangar to about 2,000 people, mostly Australian troops in green camouflage uniforms but with 55 American Marines salted among them. “This region has some of the busiest sea lanes in the world.”

However, Xins are not enraged with American presence in Afghanistan, where NATO protects Chinese mining operations and railroads

The president said the moves were not intended to isolate China, but they were an unmistakable sign that the United States had grown warier of its intentions.

China has invested heavily in military modernization and has begun to deploy long-range aircraft and a more able deep-sea naval force, and it has asserted territorial claims to disputed islands that would give it broad sway over oil and gas rights in the East and South China Seas.

edit on 17-11-2011 by DangerDeath because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 08:04 AM
reply to post by DangerDeath

How about Australian citizens looking for jobs, what, they are so well off they don't need any jobs? and since when the US is now exporting labor force to foreign countries, what happen to illegal immigration looking for jobs in the US.

I guess we should just now gather the illegals at the border and in the coast of Florida and ship them to Australia for jobs after all the Marines will be protecting their rights to work.

What a joke Globalization has become.
or better yet the desperation of the profeteers.

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 08:08 AM

"As we end today's wars, I have directed my national security team to make our presence and missions in the Asia Pacific a top priority," Obama said. "As a result, reductions in U.S. defense spending will not -- I repeat, will not -- come at the expense of the Asia Pacific."

I wonder, at WHOSE expense will this be?

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 08:16 AM

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by DangerDeath

How about Australian citizens looking for jobs, what, they are so well off they don't need any jobs? and since when the US is now exporting labor force to foreign countries, what happen to illegal immigration looking for jobs in the US.

I guess we should just now gather the illegals at the border and in the coast of Florida and ship them to Australia for jobs after all the Marines will be protecting their rights to work.

What a joke Globalization has become.
or better yet the desperation of the profeteers.

So, they have started another strategy game, and cleaning some pots in USA and Europe, to build new fires and cook their stew elsewhere...

The Eldorado game seems valid to be repeated. Expect The Treasure of the Sierra Madre remake from Hollywood

One thing I don't understand, was it Gen. M. Keltz who called journalists because of an "urge" to talk ????

In addition, Air Force Maj. Gen. Michael Keltz, director of strategic planning and policy for the U.S. Pacific Command, told journalists in a telephone call Wednesday from Hawaii that the United States has based some of its most sophisticated weapons in the Pacific, including squadrons of F-22 fighters and C-17 transport planes.

"The Chinese can squawk about it," said Patrick Cronin, senior director of the Asia-Pacific Security Program at the Center for a New American Security. "But it's not like having an aircraft carrier in the Yellow Sea."

This will win Obama's next elections

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 08:31 AM


Italy has already lost market access... And Monti government won't last till April 2013..

The Technocratic Revulsion Begins: Photos And Video As Thousands Of Italians Protest Monti's "Banker" Government

As Reuters and Corriere report, thousands of Italians took to the streets in several cities on Thursday to protest against what they called a "bankers' government" led by economist Mario Monti, and there were clashes with police. Students in Italy's financial capital Milan threw firecrackers at police trying to prevent them approaching the Bocconi university, which is chaired by Monti and has become a symbol for the new executive of technocrats he has formed to tackle Italy's debt crisis. Police responded by charging the students with batons.

Monti deserves the same fate as Mussolini!

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 08:37 AM
Underground economy???

In another shot at a major problem with the Italian economy, Monti said the use of cash should be reduced to cut an underground economy that accounts for nearly 20 percent of GDP.

People work underground in Italy ???
Send them to Australia, there are new mines opening there, they can work in Australian underground for a change.

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:33 AM
Why America politics is so corrupted, well lets find out, no wonder they are nothing but whores to Wall street as Walls street pimps are making them rich beyond dreams.

While the Middle Class Suffers, Congress is Getting Richer – With Help From Legal Insider Trading

You get rewarded if you work in politics and get to be pimped by Walls street.

While many Americans continue to struggle to save money, members of Congress are getting richer.

A Roll Call analysis of Congress members' financial disclosure forms showed their collective net worth was more than $2 billion in 2010 - a 25% leap from 2008. Minimum net worth in the House of Representatives rose to $1.26 billion, with minimum Senate net worth at $784 million.

With a median net worth of $891,506, Congress members are nine times wealthier than the average American household - and some Congressional leaders are exceedingly richer.

About 11% of Congress has net worth of more than $9 million, landing them in the top 1% of America's wealthy.

And no Inside trading is no really illegal at least for the corrupted politicians running Washignton.

According to a CBS News "60 Minutes" segment that aired Nov. 13, congressional "insider trading" might be a key factor in their financial success. Congress members may be using information gained from their "insider" positions to make highly profitable trades in the stock market.

This form of insider trading may be unethical, but it's also legal.

"This is a venture opportunity," Peter Schweizer, a fellow at Stanford University's conservative think tank the Hoover Institution, told "60 Minutes" correspondent Steve Kroft. "This is an opportunity to leverage your position in public service and use that position to enrich yourself, your friends, and your family."

Ain't this great, America the land of opportunity if you happen to be in the top 1% of crocks in Walls street and political leaders.

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 02:58 PM
Quiet day on this thread. I guess it is the same old going on. Numbers came out this morning, though they look better, all eyes are on Europe. Will they survive their crisis or not, that seems to be what we are all waiting for.

The US market is having another bad day. How low can it go? Just checked and it was down 204. I find it curious that oil is going up and gold is going down. I would think gold would be up.

I watched CSPAN this morning, yesterdays show on Congress members grill Fannie & Freddie executives. It was so pathetically corrupt all I could do is laugh. How many polite ways are there to call someone a thief?

posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 03:00 PM
reply to post by AuntB

Oil is down 3,35%, more than gold.

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