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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 04:59 AM
Martin Armstrong

The US Great Depression was so bad NOT because of the stock market crash, but (1) the sovereign debt crisis that wiped out savings and reduced capital in the USA contributing to over 3000 bank failures, and (2) the Dust Bowl that eliminated agrarian jobs when agriculture accounted for 40% of the civil work force resulting in the “hobo” lifestyle. It was WWII that provided the “transition” reducing unemployment and transformed farmers into skilled labor. The Great Depression after the Panic of 1857 was followed 4 years later by the US Civil War, which was also the “transition” at that time relieving unemployment.

Today, there is no plan. There is no transition, only austerity. The politicians are doing NOTHING whatsoever for any reforms they reject because it would change the way they have been doing business since WWII. Italy’s debt is bigger than Spain, Portugal, and Greece combined. It is too big to be bailed out and there is no PLAN B to even address what happens if sitting on their hands blows up in everyone’s face? Stay away from ALL government debt! This is a wave of Creative Destruction. We are
in a transition to a completely new world ahead.

"Creative Destruction" - I like this one

edit on 11-11-2011 by DangerDeath because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 08:32 AM
reply to post by DangerDeath

Spears and swords are Das Kapital, not gold.

Well oil is going up because America has two carrier groups and one amphibious landing ship just near Iran and all this talk of bombing Iran around Christmas... even if the world economy is crashing down, and the dollar going up, which should make oil go down... But nooooooooooo....

The new Greek government, led by ex-ECB vice president Papademos, is expected to be sworn in at 1400GMT today

The Italian Senate approves budget measures. According to the PM’s office, Italy’s cabinet will meet on Saturday evening at around 1700GMT, after the lower house votes on a financial stability law

Market talk that the ECB is buying the Italian and Spanish government debt


Merkel's CDU party's general secretary said that the party is poised to back a motion at its annual party congress on November 13th-15th to offer states a "voluntary" means of leaving the Eurozone

Volontary uh? Everybody should leave then...

Meanwhile, Someone Forgot To Invite France To The Party

With Italian bonds giddy at the prospect of changing one worthless political muppet with another, if only for a few hours, and especially with the stern and long overdue assistance of the ECB (we will find out how many bonds Mario Draghi bought this week to preserve the price stabeeleetee next Monday - we expect the SMP cumulative total to pass €200 billion, a number which will delight Germany), it is becoming increasingly clear that France needs to be urgently added to the list of countries eligible for ECB secondary market "sponsorship", because while Italy yields are gapping in, Franch Bund spreads have since blown out back to record levels, following some modest tightening earlier in the morning.


posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 09:11 AM



Europe Warns EFSF Will Not Reach €1 Trillion, EFSF Yields Remain At Record Wides

As Reuters reports, "political turmoil in Italy and Greece is complicating efforts to increase the firepower of the euro zone's bailout vehicle to 1 trillion euros, an official at the European Financial Stability Facility said on Friday. Euro zone countries had hoped to increase the EFSF's lending capacity by December, combining bond insurance with investment vehicles. But after the government in Athens fell and bond markets pushed Rome to the brink of a bailout that the euro zone cannot afford to give, the Luxembourg-based EFSF thinks it may be more realistic to aim for less leverage." In other words: kiss the full capacity bailout goodbye.


posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 11:57 AM
OMG, I really cant belive this market right now. Are people really that short sided and cant see the train coming for them? I mean really?

This is mad!

Some people are saying this is going to be as bad as the great depression. I think its going to be worse. At least people back them knew how to plant and grow there own food, or raise cattle. No body in these big citys know how to do any of that unless its on farmville. back then people drank from wells and river. People cant do that now, you'll get sick

I just dont understand how the markets can be DOOM one day than jump up and down because the latest news header reads "stock gain ground on HOPE that greece can fix its problems".

I just need to know im not the only one that thinks the world and the markets have gone mad. Is it just people dont want to know or think about a total collapse is around the corner because its to depressing?

Its scary how many people are going to be blindsided when the SHTF. I really feel sorry for them.
edit on 11-11-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 12:02 PM




Forbes took a look at US corporate exposure to Europe. GE is on top of their list. They conclude that those companies with high exposure AND a leveraged balance sheet are the most at risk. Well, 27% of GE’s top line comes from Europe. Their debt to capital is 75%.

GE will be in trouble soon enough.

$99 Oil For 11/11/11

"every $1 per barrel rise in oil decreases U.S. GDP by $100 billion per year and every 1 cent increase in gasoline decreases U.S. consumer disposable income by about $600 million per year."

Yep... we already posted that information a few times in this topic already... but good reminder. In other news, this is bullish...
... more dollars around the world, more money for the oil countries to buy US weapons to bomb Iran! Let's forget it criples the middle-class around the world...

IMF Warns Developed World May Fall Back Into Recession

Recovery remains in low gear in major advanced economies with elevated risk of falling back into recession.


reply to post by camaro68ss

Are people really that short sided and cant see the train coming for them? I mean really?

Not people... MACHINES... computer algorithms... remember, there's not one human trading these days, it's all computers trading headlines.

I remember a few months back, the algorithms traded an Onion article as truth... it crashed the markets for a few hours before realizing it was BS...

I bet if most finance website posted fake stories about S&P downgrading France or the US to junk, the interest rate on their bonds would explode...
edit on 11-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 12:29 PM
Austrian Central Bank Strikes Exotic Deal with PBoC While Entangled in Alleged Kickback Scandal

Based on the excellent long lasting contacts between the People´s Bank of China (PBC) and the Austrian central bank (OeNB), the Governors of the two central banks, Mr. ZHOU Xiaochuan and Mr. NOWOTNY Ewald, today signed an important agreement in Beijing. This agreement enables the OeNB to invest via the PBC in Renminbi-denominated assets.

This is the first agreement of this kind signed by the PBC with a non-Asian central bank, and can be seen as an important step in the good relationship between the PBC and the OeNB.

Italy Or USA - Where Would You Put Your Money?

If you were a medium-term investor, where would you put your money: In a country that hopes things will miraculously improve on its own, or in a country that has realized that reforms are needed and that has shown the willingness to take the painful steps in the right direction?

True dat.

Exclusive - Greece turns to Iranian oil

Greece is relying on Iran for most of its oil as traders pull the plug on supplies and banks refuse to provide financing for fear that Athens will default on its debt.

The near paralysis of oil dealings with Greece, which has four refineries, shows how trade in Europe could stall due to a breakdown in trust caused by the euro zone debt crisis, which is threatening to spread to further countries.

This is allowed by the elite. Give money to Iran is good, it gives them money to finish their nuclear program so there can be war.

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 12:53 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Ahem ...

Fraud Case Rattles Iranian Leader

(Picked from Reinhard)

Iran's Parliament moved against President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's economy minister over a banking-fraud case, only to back off, in a roller-coaster session that showcased the battle between the president and the country's political establishment.

The $2.6 billion fraud case, the largest in Iran's history, has become a powerful vehicle for rivals of Mr. Ahmadinejad to attack his administration.

Iran definitely needs war. Now!

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 02:30 PM

"Sold To You": European Banks Quietly Dumping €300 Billion In Italian Debt

As IFR reports, "European banks are planning to dump more of the €300bn they own in Italian government debt, as they seek to pre-empt a worsening of the region’s debt crisis and avoid crippling writedowns – a move that could scupper the European Central Bank’s efforts to bring down soaring yields.

So,Banks dumb Italian Debt en masse because they don´t want to make the same Mistake twice (the first was Greece) and the ECB buys up everything (the first big sell-off was Wednesday and Thursday,with the ECB intervening Thursday and Friday)...Italy is finished as soon as the ECB has to stop buying Italian Debt because they are out of Money and the EFSF doesn´t really work because noone buys into it...

So,either the ECB stops buying when they run out Money (which could be pretty soon) or they start the Printing Press...

We knew this was coming...

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 03:33 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Volontary uh? Everybody should leave then...

Soooo .. here is the thing about the European Union. There is NO clause in the Treaties that even mention leaving the Union. It's exactly like the United States Constitution ... there is nothing that says a State cannot leave.. but there is nothing that says a State CAN leave.

It was widely assumed by most states that you could leave the Union whenever you wanted... but in some cases with one country leaving it would destroy the Union, for instance if Germany left the Union would collapse.. so it was assumed military force would be used to keep them there..

The people who voted to pass the referendums placing their nations in the EU are complete, and utter, morons.

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 03:35 PM
reply to post by Shenon

Yep... and if they start the printing presses, that screws Germany.

So... nothing has changed this week, Europe is still screwed.

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 03:39 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

When they begin direct debt monetization Germany leave the Euro Zone.

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 03:40 PM

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 03:47 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Got to give them some credit though, they did change a couple of chairs on the deck and the markets turned positive by end-of-week close. Now we wait for next week and the realities of the situation to return in abject horror.

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 03:53 PM
reply to post by Shenon

Interesting article. I recall reading t his week that China exports dropped in October while their imports increased. Those China imports is probably what has provided the US and others with some improved deficit / surplus figures for the month. This will only last as long as China keeps up with the imports, and then......

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 04:13 PM
An interesting article from Bloomberg:

Invisible Run on Banks Becoming Conversation With Italian Yields Above 7%

Italy’s highest bond yields since the birth of the euro are reverberating through the financial system of Europe’s biggest debt issuer, driving lenders to seek record amounts of central bank financing.,,,

The crisis that’s engulfing Italy and other so-called peripheral countries is also spreading to Europe’s richer economies. Credit-default swaps protecting against a French default jumped to a record 203 basis points yesterday, before falling back to 201, according to CMA prices. The Markit iTraxx SovX Western Europe Index of swaps on 15 governments was at 336 basis points, compared with an all-time high 358 on Sept. 23.

More info at link.

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 04:17 PM

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 05:55 PM
reply to post by Shenon

Spotlight China: Shipping Downturn; Hong Kong Recession; Credit Squeeze Prompts Suicides; HK Home Sales Fall Over 50%; Factory Closure Wave Looms

Well if this is true, China and the US are lying their butts off.

Bottomless Import Hail Mary Black Hole Uncovered: It Is Hong Kong

A massive spike in Exports to - drum roll please - Hong Kong!!A 76% rise in exports to this once glorious colony. The US trade deficit fell by $1.8bn thanks to a $2.5bn rise in exports (of which $2.03bn was to Hong Kong). Has Hong Kong become the channel-stuffing center of the world? It appears so since China's exports to Hong Kong have remained extremely high.

So... wtf? Me thinks if both aren't lying, then the FED and/or the Chinese central bank are giving lots of money to Hong Kong under the radar to import stuff... so that China and the US can show ``exports`` and when it's in Hong Kong, it's given to people or just stored in warehouses...

Or someone is lying... I'm gonna go with the lying. They are doing channel stuffing...

Channel stuffing is the business practice where a company, or a sales force within a company, inflates its sales figures by forcing more products through a distribution channel than the channel is capable of selling to the world at large. Also known as "trade loading", this can be the result of a company attempting to inflate its sales figures. Corporations have been known to engage in channel stuffing and hide such activities from their investors.

Now it's America doing it on a national level.
edit on 11-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 06:00 PM
They are spreading to Middle Asia. They have already made network of roads and railroads. And who else has access to that? Not Europe...

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 07:24 PM
Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by Shenon

and when it's in Hong Kong, it's given to people or just stored in warehouses...

This "Stored in Warehouses" would make sense if you think about it. Remember that China reduced the exports of Rare Earths over the last few Years,especially this one? And its known that they are buying alot of Gold lately,thanks in part to the Price-Supression courtesy of the US(-Elite)...

It wouldn´t really suprise me to be honest, if they import alot of "certain" things just to store it away secretly, to be used when the Time comes when it is needed.

You could say that they are behaving just like Survivalists,or Preppers,who don´t want their Neighboors to know that they are storing Supplys incase something happens...

edit on 11-11-2011 by Shenon because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 11 2011 @ 09:32 PM
OK, this is not news from the EU but from the corruption going on in our backyards

How JPMorgan Aided and Abetted the Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in U.S. History

I find this information so incredible that at the end is just very much credible and something that we all know is going on.

You know how much America is been screw over when you read articles like this one

Alabama's Jefferson County filed for bankruptcy protection on Wednesday, making it the largest municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history.

But believe it or not, that's not the biggest story here.

The big story is how JPMorgan Chase & Co. (NYSE: JPM) - specifically, JPMorgan's Securities arm - has a filthy hand in the whole Jefferson County saga.

You all know that this started with a county just trying to build a new sewer system that happen to run into a few "billion dollars"
That is when things get interesting

I'm not going to get into how Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (NYSE: GS) got involved in 2002 and ended up being paid some $3 million (some of which it passed along to "consultants") to get in on the deal - which incidentally it ended up doing nothing on, other than participating in a back-door swap arrangement with JPMorgan Securities. Nor am I going to get into Bear Stearns' dealings, nor the small securities dealers who acted as conduits for money being exchanged between JPMorgan and others.

Instead, I'm going to focus on JPMorgan, which ended up constructing the finance arrangements and doing most of bond deals that served to finance the building of the new sewer system - because that's where the story takes a truly ugly turn.

How our own financial institutions are working to help bankrupt counties and perhaps the corruption goes to entire states.

You see, JPMorgan overcharged Jefferson County by some $100 million in fees (according to an advisor subsequently hired by the county) and jointly with its co-conspirators paid out some $8.2 million in bribes.

But what's truly appalling is that JPMorgan actually imbedded the cost of the bribes it paid into the finance deal it constructed.

In other words, taxpayers and bondholders paid the bribes JPMorgan conveyed to get to run the county's financing of the sewer system.

It doesn't end there, either. Before JPMorgan came to run things, some 95% of Jefferson County's debt was in fixed rate obligations. JPMorgan turned that around to the point that the County ended up with some 93% of its outstanding debt being variable and floating rate debt, subject to interest rate hikes.

Interesting right? well is more.

Then JPMorgan created a neat little swap deal so the county was "protected." It didn't work out that way, and interest costs on the county's debts rose as high as 10%.

In the end, JPMorgan admitted no wrongdoing. Yet, amazingly - considering it did nothing wrong - the firm paid some $75 million in penalties to settle a fraud complaint with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

JPMorgan paid $25 million in penalties to the SEC and $50 million to Jefferson County. It also agreed to decline a $648 million "termination fee" that it was due when the county backed out of the swap deal that helped bankrupt it.

No one at JPMorgan went to jail - although others were convicted of conspiracy and fraud, with some folks going to jail for 48 months, 52 months and even15 years.

And to think that this crocks are the ones running our government and paying whores in congress to pass laws in their favors against tax payers and voters.

I say lets burn them all and hang them high.

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