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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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France and Germany demanded that Greece decide by mid-December whether it wants to stay in the euro zone, according to Reuters.

Well tough luck because the referendum is set for January.


The BoE buys GBP 1.7bln worth of gilts in the maturity range of 2022-2036, offer/cover 2.21 vs. Prev. 2.71

So now the UK is in trouble uh?


services added 114K of the total 110K jobs, while good-producing jobs subtracted 4K, and manufacturing jobs as a subset declined by 8K.

Ooops... Service jobs are crap... (but don't tell that to Obama)

Spiegel: Greek Exit From Euro Zone Just A "Matter Of Time"; Roundup Of German Press Responses To Referendum

To wit: "Despite its location on France's glamorous Cote d'Azur, Wednesday evening's meeting likely won't be a pleasant one for Giorgios Papandreou. The Greek prime minister is set to meet with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy. None of them, one presumes, will be in the mood to enjoy their enchanting surroundings...Should Greek voters, frustrated by round after round of deep austerity measures, reject the bailout deal, it could result in an uncontrolled national bankruptcy.

Duh.

Charting The Debt Splurge Insanity That Nominal GDP Targetting Would Translate To

The chart below indicates that should the Fed launch on the latest harebrained idea proposed by Goldman, namely to target nominal GDP, it will most likely blow up everything, as the US economy is now about 14.7% below the trendline average, and assuming a catch up to the bubble years through 2016, would mean an 8.6% annualized increase in economic growth, about double where growth has been in the past. How this is possible absent the issuance of an incremental ~10% in annual debt each year (keep in mind we are dealing with Keynesians, where debt = growth) we don't know. Neither does the Fed. So if indeed the Fed wants to revert to trendline, it means that by 2016, US Debt will be greater by an additional $10 trillion over an on top of the $10 trillion increase already forecast by the GAO over the next decade, or, numerically, by 2021, the US would have about $35 trillion in debt, and most likely, well over that amount. Brilliant.

You betcha Ben is insane enough to pull this.


"Conditions in the global manufacturing sector remain broadly stagnant in October. Levels of production & new orders fell slightly over the month, while new export orders declined at the quickest pace for almost two-and-a-half years."

I don't call that stagnant, I call that crashing.


* FED REITERATES `SIGNIFICANT DOWNSIDE RISKS' TO ECONOMIC OUTLOOK
* FED TO KEEP REINVESTING HOUSING DEBT INTO MORTGAGE SECURITIES
* FED SAYS IT'S PREPARED TO EMPLOY TOOLS TO BOOST RECOVERY
* EVANS DISSENTS FROM FOMC DECISION, WANTS MORE ACCOMMODATION
* FED SAYS UNEMPLOYMENT RATE TO DECLINE `ONLY GRADUALLY'

Just as JPM "predicted", we now have our first dovish dissent courtesy of Charles Evans:

* Voting against the action was Charles L. Evans, who supported additional policy accommodation at this time.

Ooops. And now the only thing that MIGHT save the stock market is Ben's conference at 2.15PM...




posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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Banking system, and markets too, don't have much to offer to the real economy of living. They are a kind of economy of their own, but it should be clearly distinguished what is what and how it should be called. Mixing these gamblers with economy of living is very dangerous. It is the last minute to do so once and for all. If some people want to gamble, let them go to Las Vegas and stay there



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Bernanke will talk trash as usual but with a different meaning than the real one, the economy sucks, the futures suck but that is ok because they are working on it.


Then the EU motto is keep borrowing for generations to come because all the ones pushing for debt will be death by then anyway so they will not be here to get the anger of those behind dealing with all the crap.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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* FED OFFICIALS SEE 2011 GDP 1.6%-1.7% VS 2.7%-2.9%
* FED OFFICIALS SEE 2012 GDP 2.5%-2.9% VS 3.3%-3.7%
* FED OFFICIALS SEE LONGER-RUN GDP 2.4%-2.7% VS 2.5%-2.8%
* FED OFFICIALS SEE 2011 UNEMPLOYMENT 9.0%-9.1% VS 8.6%-8.9%
* FED OFFICIALS SEE 2012 JOBLESS ESTIMATE 8.5%-8.7% VS 7.8%-8.2%
* FED OFFICIALS SEE 2013 JOBLESS ESTIMATE 7.8%-8.2% VS 7.0%-7.5%
* FED OFFICIALS SEE LONGER-RUN JOBLESS 5.2%-6.0% VS 5.2%-5.6%

As always, they are probably overestimating it... by a lot, especially unemployment.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Actually they are lying to the entire nation and people are nothing but bubble heads, the economy is not going to get any better because no politicrap have a solution to the problems in the nation, so in a few months things will be no better than today and the next time the Fed talks about future numbers, they will just pushing a littler bit more down the road in years.

Speculation doesn't work it just screws honest investors.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Yep totally right.

And In The Meantime Back In Reality

China’s Zhu Says ‘Too Soon’ to Discuss Further EFSF Purchases


IIF Sees Euro-Zone Banks Selling Govt Bonds To Meet Capital Targets

Lalalalala
Only bad news for Europe... and that's why the euro is so high.. EU banks are selling their US govt bonds and changing them into euros... but once they have sold them all... bye bye euro.
edit on 2-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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Remember how subprime home loans destroyed the economy? Well say hello to subprime auto loans.


The Next Subprime Meltdown - Securitized Subprime Auto Loans

File this under “Sure, there is no way this will end badly” but there is a new subprime bubble starting to brew. It is not in the housing market, but in the high mileage used car business.

The LA Times has a series going about the business of auto sales. It is a good look at a business that people hate and don’t really think about very much. But in today’s second installment there is a story that has my blood running cold.

It is about the securitization of auto-loans. But not just any auto-loans, loans from what are called Buy Here Pay Her (BHPH) lots. These are lots that sell older high mileage cars to people with really bad credit.

On a credit score report, the top score is 850, anything down to 720 is considered prime credit, at least in the auto world. Most of the people who buy from a BHPH lot have a score somewhere around 520, (the bottom is 300, but no one with that score can finance anything). They can’t get conventional loans and so they turn to this lots to get the cars they need to get to work.

The lots are called Buy Here Pay Here because they typically make the customers return to the lot, bi-monthly, to pay their payments. While these lots do provide a service that is needed it is not all happiness and sunshine as you might expect.

One or two missed payments is enough to start foreclosure at many of these lots (and the car will often be sold to another person), and the interest rates are very high, in the 21% range. The cars themselves are often sold well above the Kelley Blue Book (which of all the used car pricing books is the one that puts the value at the highest).

Which is important, since 1 in 4 of these deep subprime loans fail.

Brilliant.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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MF Global are even worse criminals than we thought they were...

MF Global Client Theft Estimate Doubled To $1.5 Billion?

"As a result of the apparent segregation violations and the suspension of clearing privileges, more than 150,000 customer accounts essentially were frozen on October 31, 2011, of which more than 50,000 accounts were regulated commodities customer accounts. The CME estimates that MFGI’s current segregated funds requirement is approximately $5.45 billion. Moreover, the total amount of MFGI customer segregated funds on deposit at the CME is approximately $2.5 billion, and the clearing-level segregated collateral is approximately $1.5 billion or approximately 60 percent of the MFGI customer segregated funds on deposit at the CME." Doing some quick inverse addition and we get a (w)hole of $5.45 less $2.5 less $1.5 or $1.45 billion. In other words, the theft by MF Global was not stealing hunderds of millions form its customers: it has stolen a whopping $1.5 billion!

So let me get this straight... a PRIMARY DEALER with the FED, directly STOLE $1.5 billion from it's own clients... the criminality just reached a new level... to the public anyways.

EDIT: G20 just announced that ALL AID TO GREECE IS CUT till the referendum...


And Greek PM told that if Greece votes NO that means that Greece will go bankrupt.


EU's Barroso says EU stands ready to provide IMF with more funds

Is this guy NUTS or what?


Latest Italian spread... 436 points...
edit on 2-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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Pressure on Greece ahead of G20

A Greek government spokesman confirmed on Wednesday that the referendum would only ask the public to vote for or against the bailout package, and would not ask about Greece's membership of the euro.

However, it is widely feared that a 'No' vote could nonetheless force Greece into a chaotic exit from the euro, and spread financial contagion.

Awwwwwww.

Greece's next 8bn tranche of bailout money was approved last week by eurozone leaders, but only for payment in mid-November.

However, Reuters news agency reported a source on the board of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) as saying that the payment will be postponed until after the referendum - something that is not expected until January.

The Greek government has previously stated that it would run out of cash before then to fund its spending - which would include payments on its debts.

Uh oh.
edit on 2-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
MF Global are even worse criminals than we thought they were...

MF Global Client Theft Estimate Doubled To $1.5 Billion?

"As a result of the apparent segregation violations and the suspension of clearing privileges, more than 150,000 customer accounts essentially were frozen on October 31, 2011, of which more than 50,000 accounts were regulated commodities customer accounts. The CME estimates that MFGI’s current segregated funds requirement is approximately $5.45 billion. Moreover, the total amount of MFGI customer segregated funds on deposit at the CME is approximately $2.5 billion, and the clearing-level segregated collateral is approximately $1.5 billion or approximately 60 percent of the MFGI customer segregated funds on deposit at the CME." Doing some quick inverse addition and we get a (w)hole of $5.45 less $2.5 less $1.5 or $1.45 billion. In other words, the theft by MF Global was not stealing hunderds of millions form its customers: it has stolen a whopping $1.5 billion!

So let me get this straight... a PRIMARY DEALER with the FED, directly STOLE $1.5 billion from it's own clients... the criminality just reached a new level... to the public anyways.

EDIT: G20 just announced that ALL AID TO GREECE IS CUT till the referendum...


And Greek PM told that if Greece votes NO that means that Greece will go bankrupt.


EU's Barroso says EU stands ready to provide IMF with more funds

Is this guy NUTS or what?


Latest Italian spread... 436 points...
edit on 2-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)


I'd wager a pretty big chunk of the zero pile of assets I have to my name that MF isn't the only entity with dirty sticky soon-to-be-caughy fingers dabbling in the pockets of the people. My guess is that it's pretty common practice as the financial whores of the world don't much care if they get it lying face down or belly up, just as long as they're grinding one out of the next john to line their pockets.

On the street, they'd be criminals and thrown in the clink.

On wall street, they're glorified, bonused and treated with the nepotism fit for a king's kid.

And they expect the people of Greece to lie back, close their eyes and think of the Queen while they're reveling in the marvels of financial 'jail sex'.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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*SARKOZY SAYS REFERENDUM WILL DECIDE GREECE'S EURO FUTURE

*SARKOZY SAYS REFERENDUM WILL BE AROUND DEC. 4 OR DEC. 5

*SARKOZY SAYS CAN'T HAVE 'PROLONGED PERIOD OF UNCERTAINTY'

*SARKOZY SAYS 'WE ARE READY TO AID GREECE'

*JUNCKER SAYS AID PAYMENT DEPENDS ON GREEK VOTE

They love blackmail...


*MERKEL SAYS GREEK REFERENDUM IS MASSIVE CHANGE OF SITUATION

*MERKEL SAYS FIREWALL MEASURES MUST BE SPEEDED UP

*MERKEL SAYS KEEPING EURO STABLE IS THE PRIORITY

*MERKEL SAYS EU EXPECTS POLITICAL CONSENSUS IN GREECE

*MERKEL SAYS GREECE MUST ACCEPT FULL DEAL TO GET NEXT TRANCHE

Those scumbags are deciding for GREECE...

Greece should tell them to suck it and GREEK politicians will decide when the referendum is done, not some french or german.


*MERKEL SAYS EU PREPARED FOR ANY OUTCOME IN GREECE REFERENDUM

Riiiiight. Total bull.

More :

*It appears there are 10-12 'rebels' in Berlusconi's party, enough to bring the Italian government down

Goooooood.

* Merkel says Greece only gets next tranche of first bail out after Oct 27 deal is fully implemented.

So basically the referendum is worthless?


Anyways, this is all a big distraction. The referendum doesn't matter. Greece doesn't matter. Italy doesn't matter. None of this matters. Why?

Because they couldn't even sell $3B in EFSF bonds because nobody wants them... and they were planning to sell a trillion of those EFSF bonds... how they gonna do that?
And that is without France being downgraded... which will happen before February I would bet a thousand bucks on that. And Italy needs 300B euros next year just to fund their debt. Good luck with that.
edit on 2-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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Coup de Greece: Papandreou boots military brass

The dismissal of Greece’s top military chiefs has the opposition up in arms. With the Greek crisis worsening by the day, PM George Papandreou has been accused of trying to rein in the armed forces before a potential government collapse.

Nice. They need a military that will follow orders and protect the government from angry people when they cheat on the referendum.


China's vice finance minister says there are still not enough details on expanded EFSF mechanism and cannot consider raising investment due to this


China's vice finance minister says EFSF bonds are already included in China's FX portfolio

Stupid China...
edit on 2-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


the movie '7 days in May just aired tonight on TMC, its a classic...

the greek debacle might just be a variation of that movie depiction of a fizzled out Coup
(but this time in Greece, not in the USA as was the subject of the (not too far fetched) movie---------------------



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by St Udio
 


Well thanks for that, I never saw that movie, I'm gonna correct this tonight...

In other news... epic news....

Game Over Berlusconi? Italian Anti-Crisis Bill Fails

"Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi on Wednesday failed to issue growth-boosting measures demanded by European Union authorities ahead of the Group of 20 summit, raising further doubts about the government's willingness to pass economic reforms aimed at restoring investor confidence in the country."



KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.


Analysts interpreted the meetings as a sign that Mr. Napolitano might throw his support behind lawmakers who have called for a government of technocrats to replace the premier.

Bye bye Berlusconii... if it was up to me, you would be in jail...

This could send Europe over the edge if the spread of Italian bonds break 450 points and the margins on Italian debt are raised... which would blow up most of the banks in Europe.


The end of Europe might be here... finally.
edit on 2-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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The next pivot point for the Euro is 1.31 range.. look for a 4% drop tomorrow



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Lets hope so


Btw is it this one? Bloomberg Italy 10 Year Still at 436...
edit on 2-11-2011 by Shenon because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 08:32 PM
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Putting the thumb screws on the PM of a sovrine nation is not on.
black mailing them so your banks, who invest on their own volition.
a bank rupt greece would set them back a decade or so before it would
returne to some credible state of affairs. but instead they want to enslave
-the greeks with multi-generational debt. in that time growth and prosperity
would be crushed. germany in the 20's and 30's were in the same boat, having
to pay so mutch back in war reporations that the despirate people turned
to a form of govenment which put nationalism first and be dambed to everyone else
the genisis of the natzi regeim had a lot to do with overburdening a country with
huge unpaible debt. let the people have their voice, let them default.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by Shenon
reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Lets hope so


Btw is it this one? Bloomberg Italy 10 Year Still at 436...
edit on 2-11-2011 by Shenon because: (no reason given)

Yep. It opens at 3AM it seems. I think it's 3AM eastern or 8AM German time.

Edit : People in Australia will LOVE this...not.
Aust to boost IMF contribution: PM
Disgusting.
edit on 2-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Yeah I saw a similar article earlier:

'Aussie taxpayers shouldn't have to rescue EU'


THE Opposition today is battling any move by Australia to tip billions into a bailout of struggling European economies.

Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey challenged the suggestion the Government should go further into debt to help pay off someone else's debt.

He said the Europeans should resolve the economic collapse of member nations such as Greece rather than expect "a get out of jail free card'' from other countries.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard is attending a summit of the G20, the world's 20 biggest economies, where a rescue mission by the International Monetary Fund will be considered.

On her arrival Ms Gillard said "Australia is standing ready to play its part in any increase in IMF resources'' -- its cash reserves.


Got to be sure that all areas of the globe are tangled in the Euromess so that when it finally expires, the world can salute the sinking of the ship together.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by surrealist
 


Aussie are gonna be screwed like everybody else... lucky you.

In other news, the EFSF bonds, they are sooooooooooo good that they are trading at ABOVE Germany's bonds. 1.62% more than German bonds actually... for now and it keeps rising.

EFSF FAIIIIIIIIL.




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