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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 08:45 PM
China Manufacturing PMI Drops To 32 Month Low

China Manufacturing PMI prints at 50.4, down from 51.2, when consensus was expecting an increase to 51.8. This is the lowest print in 32 months, and the lowest since February 2009....It's bad news and the hard landing is coming.

And the world sayeth "Ouch!"

posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 09:01 PM
reply to post by Rockpuck

You have one thing wrong. The leveraged EFSF is basically just a Promise to pay this Amount if it goes wrong (which it will). Only the Basic Amount of 411 Billions (from 700 Billions or so) is there to bail out failing European Nations.

This Amount is leveraged,but it doesn´t really exists. Its the same Situation that lead to the Crash in 2008. But now its not the Banks who promise to pay out more Money than they actually have if something goes wrong,its Europe and the EFSF who are the ones speculating now.

If i got something wrong,excuse me,its late here (3am) and im tired...

And talking about Lehman...:

Someone Is Going To Jail For This: MF Global Caught Stealing Hundreds Of Millions From Customers?

Federal regulators have discovered that hundreds of millions of dollars in customer money have gone missing from MF Global in recent days, prompting an investigation into the company’s operations as it filed for bankruptcy on Monday, according to several people briefed on the matter.

The revelation of the missing money scuttled an 11th hour deal for MF Global to sell a major part of itself to a rival brokerage firm. MF Global, the powerhouse commodities brokerage run by Jon S. Corzine, had staked its survival on completing the deal.

What began as nearly $1 billion missing had dropped to less than $700 million by late Monday. It is unclear where the money went, and some money is expected to trickle in over the coming days as the firm sorts through the bankruptcy process, the people said.

But regulators are examining whether MF Global diverted some customer money to support its own trades as the firm teetered on the brink of collapse. If that was the case, it could violate a fundamental tenet of Wall Street regulation: Customers’ money must be kept separate from company money.

What happens next? Why customers at all other brokerages, all other exchanges, afraid that their money will suffer the same fate as MF, even if they transact with perfect solvent clearers and agents, will proceed to pull their money, as they know they have nobody to trust but their own prudent and forward looking actions. Which in turn will start the kind of liquidity drain that killed not only Lehman, but froze money markets, and with that brought the complete capital markets to a standstill, only to be thawed after the Fed pledged multiples of the US GDP to rescue Wall Street in October of 2008.

As i said earlier,this could turn into a Lehman 2.0...

posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 09:03 PM
The date for the referendum in Greece? January... yeah, that's late as hell, but you know, people need to be propagandized into doing the ``right vote`` and that takes time.

Panic Behind The MF Scenes As Company Refuses To Disclose Information To Regulators Even In Death

"So far they've been very disappointed with the cooperation in the fulsomeness of records and data from MF," the source said, noting regulators have been working with the firm since late last week. "They were supposed to be able to show us their books and they're supposed to be able to tell us what's what and where their customer funds are and how they've been segregated and protected and to date we don't have the information that we should have," the individual told Reuters." Seriously, as Erin Burnett would say, you are already bankrupt. Just how much worse is it if you even in death you still are hiding secrets? And at this point it should be obvious to everyone: whatever MF is hiding is not something that will hurt it or much less its stakeholders for which the management team obviously never cared one iota.

Who are you protecting? Goldman Sachs? JPMorgan? Yourselves from criminal charges?

This is what you were covering up...
Regulators investigating MF Global

What began as nearly $1 billion missing had dropped to less than $700 million by late Monday. It is unclear where the money went, and some money is expected to trickle in over the coming days as the firm sorts through the bankruptcy process, the people said.

But regulators are examining whether MF Global diverted some customer money to support its own trades as the firm teetered on the brink of collapse. If that was the case, it could violate a fundamental tenet of Wall Street regulation: Customers’ money must be kept separate from company money.

Such a finding would move the discussion from sloppy internal controls at MF Global to something more troubling. While the investigation is in its early days, it raises the specter that regulators could sanction the firm or the employees responsible.

You are covering up a can of worms... Jon Corzine is GOING TO JAIL................. HELL YEAH. (if there is any justice left)

And no sleep for the wicked :
Ugly Close As 30Y TSY Yield Drops Most Since March 2009

At over 4 standard deviations, today's drop in 30Y yields was the highest for a single-day since 3/18/09.

9 days after the bottom of the market at 666.

The yen is back down at 78.20... still way to go to go back to where it was on Friday...
edit on 31-10-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by hawkiye

Right, any actions by the ECB will have a negative long term effect, my point being, the options they continuously choose seem to be the worst options in a list of options. But .. again .. for the 14210480 time on ATS ..

All money has value if someone is accepting it as payment for goods and or services. If I could get someone to take my dirty boxers as payment for something .. it has value.

No the value is an illusion. Debt has no value it is the opposite of value. Just because they trade debt notes for goods and services does not give them value. That is what so many fail to understand you keep assuming if they throw more debt instruments at it that it can be paid off all this does is increase the debt. Nothing ever gets paid off THERE IS NO MONEY in this system it is all an illusion. That is the problem they have to create more debt to expand but it is just a bubble of illusion. That is why it is returning to where it came from; NOTHING! There is no fixing it it's a mathematical impossibility!

In other words if you can get someone to take your dirty boxers as payment for something it does mean they have value it means the person who took them is ignorant and stupid. And most of the world is taking those dirty boxers as so called payment...

edit on 31-10-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 11:01 PM
If ECB cuts rates, I'll Sell Euro/Cad

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 12:20 AM
I think this thing with MF Global is a Shakespeare's play, a theater in theater, like in "Hamlet".

Banks have always used their clients' money as their own as well as their clients' debt as money

In this little Hamletian "reality show" the culprit may even be pinned down, but in the "real" world, the Uncle will still be the king and screwing your dear mother.

The novelty we see now is that Banks are also using political sphere as "hope source of money". Wake up! Election time! Preparations for elections is also used as money generator (it's betting, ya know)

When elections come near, the authorities always "nail down" some culprits to increase their ratings as in "you see, we are doing what we are supposed to do".

This isn't going to destroy markets. On the contrary. Investors will FEEL safer after this

Hm, as for Greek referendum, it's fixed...

edit on 1-11-2011 by DangerDeath because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 12:30 AM
Again we have Madoff Culprit series going on.

Andrew, Ruth Madoff Say They Were Unaware of $65 Billion Fraud

And we also have the Chinese "chasing history"

Chinese Shenzhou craft launches on key space mission

China has taken the next step in its quest to become a major space power with the launch of the unmanned Shenzhou 8 vehicle.

The spacecraft rode a Long March 2F rocket into orbit where it will attempt to rendezvous and dock with the Tiangong-1 lab, launched in September.

It would be the first time China has joined two space vehicles together.

The capability is required if the country is to carry through its plan to build a space station by about 2020.

Why is this important? You see, Europe never managed to do this alone...

(We don't count Russians as Europe, do we

This will allow experiments carried into orbit to be recovered for analysis. The German space agency has supplied an experimental box containing fish, plants, worms, bacteria and even human cancer cells for a series of biological studies.

Good luck to you dear pflanzen, fish, worms, bacteria, cancer cells, Laika and Belka and Strelka

edit on 1-11-2011 by DangerDeath because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:16 AM
Mutiny On The Acropolis

News developing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Greek Health Minister Says Referendum Won’t Happen: Proto Thema
Next up: the army arrives in full party regalia to pay the capital a visit
More resignations defections from Greek ruling part is possible according to an Official


Europe shocked by Greek referendum on bailout deal

Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou has offered voters a referendum on the latest EU deal to rescue the country from bankruptcy, which could lead to Greece's exit from the eurozone and new parliamentary elections.


European leaders reacted with surprise on Tuesday at Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou's announcement of a referendum on the country's unpopular new bailout deal.

Papandreou told parliament on Monday that it would be "a supreme act of democracy and of patriotism" for voters to decide on the fate of their own country.

"We have a duty to promote the role and the responsibility of the citizen," he said.

edit on 1-11-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-11-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:23 AM
I, for one, can't wait to see what happens.

But honestly, I think this is just another stall for time.

I mean to give the people the choice between the two available options, is like choosing if you want to drown or burn to death.

The future of the Eurozone could be decided. It would set a precident for future cases.

By dragging this out for so long, it has given most time to get out of the greece market, which means they won't be able to return to normalcy for very long time. No one is going to want to touch that market.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:29 AM
I thanks all of you that has been working overtime to keep the news in the EU battlezone.

More on the Greek news

Markets across Europe took a plunge at start of trading on Tuesday, as investors worried about what a "no" vote on the referendum could mean for the continent's banks, which hold a significant amount of Greek debt. Deutsche Bank shares were down 6.8 percent Tuesday morning, while French banks dropped 10-12 percent.

So because he wants to used democracy and give the power to the people to decided he is now an irresponsible politician.

"Mr. Papandreou is dangerous, he tosses Greece's EU membership like a coin in the air," said Yannis Michelakis, spokesman for the opposition New Democracy. "He cannot govern, and instead of withdrawing honorably, he dynamites everything."

Now we know that all politicians that goes against the new world order I mean the EU zone are nothing but dangerous.

Nick Malkoutzis, deputy editor of the Kathimerini newspaper's English edition, said there were a number of steps yet to be taken before the referendum actually appears on a ballot for Greek voters, such as parliament's vote of confidence in government on Friday.

"There are no guarantees," he told Deutsche Welle. "We have to get to January, when the referendum will supposedly be held, with all the factors remaining the same. By January, everything may have changed."

So, we may see a coup by then with another capitalistic pig politicians pushing the bailout if the people are not careful, or we may see NATO liberating Greece so they can have "true democracy" where the government does all the decisions and keep screwing the people, just like they have right now

Jörg Rocholl, president of the European School of Management and Technology in Berlin, said the referendum was a "very surprising as well as courageous decision."

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Greece has been rocked by protests against government austerity measures"If it doesn't work out - and that's the way it's looking right now, because there is considerable resistance among the Greek populace - it could mean that other countries don't feel obliged to fulfill their promises," Rocholl told ZDF television.

Some eurozone countries could decide they will no longer contribute to the emergency loans paid out to Greece, Rocholl said, possibly meaning that "Greece can't remain in the euro."

A survey showed on Saturday that nearly 60 percent of Greeks view the EU summit last week as "negative" or "probably negative." Papandreou's majority in parliament has dropped to a mere three votes, as some in his ruling Socialist party have defected to the opposition.

So this means for the Euro zone more bad news rather than a relieve before the end of the year.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:32 AM
reply to post by KingAtlas

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!! this news will put the efforts for the EU zone to end the year in a positive side and is not going to happen then the investigation on MF is going to bring some ugly ghost out of some countries involved closets.

And the EU/US corruption zaga keeps mounting, a lot of regular citizens are going to get very angry, this is getting very good.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:38 AM
Wow, just watched the market open... nice and red

It probably is going to get lower over the next couple of days, because there is going to be no good news, anytime soon.

I mean in the next few days Italy should start speaking up. As soon as they announce that..dip... then on friday...non-confedence vote...dip....

Well even commodoties aren't doing good

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:40 AM
reply to post by KingAtlas

Yes, is going be a blood bath in the markets to bad that Halloween is over, because this one is going look like a horror movie on the markets.

I tell you, the corruption running rampant in the EU and US have to come to an end, no more sugar coating and wasting away the wealth of nations so the gamblers can keep gambling with humanity.

But the sad part is that is coming a littler to late.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:49 AM
Wow all the trading is based in long term, like bonds and alot moving to US dollar.

Which says that there won't be very good movement in the markets. The chinese markets want nothing to do with short term deals, they want to go for the long run, which is driving up the price of those bonds and such.

It doesn't look good, because investing in an all long term, really shows what is expected.

If there isn't good movement in the market, it makes it hard for economies to run.

How are the problamatic countries going to do anything when the markets are like this.
They can't...

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:56 AM
Thanks to all of you that have been posting, I appreciate all the information. As someone said above, "Ouch". I would post my thoughts on the situation but I have nothing positive to say.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:04 AM
reply to post by AuntB

You are welcome to add anything that you may find on the topics at hand that has to do with the hot topics in the markets, the Euro zone and Greece but if you find something else just post your hart out.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:07 AM
I think everything is getting pushed back, we won't have a good idea of what is going to happen until after the christmans season.

Also november 10th should be interesting, with the republican event on the 9th.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:13 AM
reply to post by KingAtlas

Oh, things will heat up way before that, see now the Greek politicians are calling for emergency meetings today.

Emergency Greek Cabinet Meeting At 4 pm Local - Early Elections, Referendum To Be Discussed

News is now coming fast and furious, with the latest locus of activity once again Greece, where we learn that there will be an emergency meeting in minutes, at 4 pm local. Dow Jones reports that early elections, and the referendum, will be discussed by the Greek cabinet, according to a government official. Supposedly G-Pap is trying to control the revolt in the socialist party. We fail to see how this is remotely good news, as early elections are merely another form of popular referendum which will simply delay the final outcome of the prevailing hatred toward the bailout, only with it it risks esclating the country closer to outright civil conflict.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:14 AM
Also I just wanted to add, the reason why the GOP event will be so important, there should be some clear ideas of where the cuts are going to be.

What cuts are planned will affect the markets in a heavy way.

No one is going to want t be in a market that is going to be getting huge slashes to it's funding.
Also the other side of the coin is if they plan on a stimulus, infrastructure will go up.

Alot of the candidates aren't exactly clear on where they stand, and if there is some better explanations, then it should help to see what will happen nex year in the markets.

I mean of course, how true are they to their words right.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:17 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Well what I meant was that, the markets will float by on the christmas season. because the markets, especially recently, are based on projected earnings for the quarter.

4th quarter is usually good, mostly because of christmas.

So we will be not hit with the true full impact until after christmas.

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