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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


2018?

I dare to predict that will be sooner than that, Vitchilo, very soon we may see some protest in Germany with the possibility of the people asking for Merkel's head.





posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by pause4thought


While raw data is always very welcome, graphs and charts would also make great additions.



[edit on 17/10/08 by pause4thought]

Mod edit: removed the word "Official" in the title.

[edit on 26 Apr 09 by Gools]


Graphs, charts and for some levity.....





posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Quite likely.. I know if I were German I'd be beyond pissed off.. all this to save one minor insignificant country?

And then there's Greece.. staves off an "official" default for now, but doesn't solve the issue .. in another 2 years they will be back where they started, and the austerity will be intense. Not to mention the massive hit public pensions will take from the "haircut" ..

I predict before Greece defaults the government it's self will collapse under the pressure of the mob.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Greece? France? Portugal? Ireland? What about America?

The US Paper Dump Continues: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund Sells All Of Its US MBS Exposure

Two days ago we noted that foreigners are selling US paper at a record pace, whether to raise capital in a locked out liquidity environment like French banks, or to make a politicial statement, like China. Today we get the first confirmation to this from Norway's Sovereign Wealth fund, best known for its prediction that it would buy and hold Greek bonds in perpetuity back in September 2010.

So what does it do? It proceeds to dump US paper. Mortgage Backed Securities first. Because if it announced that a sovereign wealth fund instead of buying into the biggest ponzi ever, we finally defecting from it, then all bets would be of. Bloomberg reports: "Norway’s $570 billion sovereign wealth fund sold all its holdings in U.S. mortgage-backed securities as part of a shift of its fixed-income portfolio. The fund holds no mortgage bonds issued by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the U.S.-controlled mortgage financiers, and an “insignificant” amount of private home loan-backed bonds, said Yngve Slyngstad, chief executive officer of Norges Bank Investment Management, today in an interview in Oslo. “We’ve reduced our holdings of mortgage-backed securities,” he said. “MBS has been taken out of our internal policy benchmark. This means that we don’t have mortgage-backed securities issued by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae any longer."

The stated reason for the dump: prepayment risk: "The debt was sold primarily because of the refinancing risk, he said. In the U.S., when a borrower refinances a mortgage it can cut short the maturity of the bond backed by the loan and reduce the expected interest over time, so-called prepayment risk." The real reason? Why shoring up capital of course. "The fund held 36 billion kroner ($6.6 billion) in bonds from Fannie Mae at the end of the second quarter and 11.5 billion kroner from Freddie Mac at the start of the year." And with the Fed telling us that almost $100 billion in US bonds and MBS having been sold in the past two months, one can be absolutely certain that i) it is not just MBS and ii) it is not just Norway.


Ooooooooooooops.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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Don't you people understand that consumerism was imposed on many who never wanted it? Now, it is easy to accuse Greeks for not following in line. I think this is a mistake. So, lets kill 'em all, bastards.

The enormous mountain of corruption needs more and more blood to suckle.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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Peace keepers in greece? it's only a thought but what would the greek military do
if their funding had to be cut drasticaly. I think that they would be tempted to side
with the people in a popular uprising. 400 new M1A1 might have been a bribe to keep
them on the side of the govenment. a bribe might be taken and then the bribers head
can be easily removed.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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Good news... US-SKorea FTA might die!

After Seoul loss, GNP pulls back on FTA approval

The Grand National Party’s defeat in the Seoul mayoral by-election has scared the party off from pushing through the Korea-U.S. free trade agreement, and its ratification is more imperiled now than ever.


Go South Korea! Save jobs in your country and in the US!



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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The "Dumb Money" Refuses To Play Along: China State Media Says It Won't Rescue Europe


[...]
As AFP reports, "China’s state media Sunday warned that the country will not be a “savior” to Europe, as President Hu Jintao left for an official visit to the region including a G20 summit. Hu’s visit has raised hopes that cash-rich China might make a firm commitment to the European bailout fund, but in a commentary, the official Xinhua news agency said Europe must address its own financial woes. “China can neither take up the role as a savior to the Europeans, nor provide a ‘cure’ for the European malaise. “Obviously, it is up to the European countries themselves to tackle their financial problems,”
[...]





Full Barroso, Van Rompuy Letter Begging For G-20 Money


With the question of who will fund the majority of the EFSF, or the €560 billion of the €1 trillion, still outstanding, and with China no longer the slam dunk "dumb money" everyone had expected it to be, Europe turns to the next biggest beneficiary of maintaining the ponzi - the entire G20 itself. Below is the letter just sent out from the two Eurostooges in which they make it all too clear that money talks, or Europe walks. "We will implement these measures rigorously and in a timely manner, and we are confident that they will contribute to the swift resolution of the crisis. However, whilst we in Europe will play our part, this cannot alone ensure global recovery and rebalanced growth. There is a continued need for joint action by all G20 partners in a spirit of common responsibility and common purpose." Too bad Bernie Madoff went to jail before he could send out comparable letters to his own investors who by implication would have become "voluntary partners" with a gun to their head.


Desperate much?



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Shenon
 


I got the feeling Shenon that without China is not going to be a bailout, why because all the reasons that has been posted already before on what China has to benefit from lending money to the EU

Germany can not do this alone, they can not, I truly believer that China is playing the power game, meaning the have the power to bring to the table a set of demands in order for the EU to get their help.

And I believer that at the end if the EU is that desperate they are going to accept the demands.

This is going to get very interesting in the coming days.


The Chinese are experiencing a kind of schadenfreude over this whole thing, secretly enjoying their new power role in international finance as the Europeans go hat in hand to them for contributions for the EFSF. They have said they will contribute but they have also said they want their kilo of flesh: stop complaining about the Chinese currency exchange rates. Fair enough since they fear that it will be perceived as a bailout of the West and that won't be popular with Chinese citizens. They are entirely correct in that assessment.


From one of my previous links, China have something up the sleeve and they are now holding all the cards for the EU.

Still they will be losing big time if the EU goes down, after all the EU are one of their biggest consumers of their crappy goods followed by the US.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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More information on the China EU call for help, things are going to heat up this week

Because the EU were with the hopes that a China would help the bailout the amount has been increased to 1.4 trillions yes things are that bad

So the desperation is mounting.


More information about President Hu’s intentions and the likelihood of China’s investment in the EU bailout fund will probably be attained during the G20 summit this Thursday and Friday. If China decides not to help the EU, European leaders must find other ways of leveraging the bailout fund, and their alternative options at the moment seem quite vague and limited.


So this week is going to be a hot, hot one, I wonder how the markets will take this negative information on monday.

www.huliq.com...


edit on 30-10-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I guess Klauss is getting ready for some serious butt kissing/begging. My guess would be we won't have to wait till tomorrow to find out, usually if the gold/silver markets go ape$h1# sunday evening it's a good indicator what's about to unfold monday.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by ludshed
 


Yes is going to be some butt kissing and begging by the EU and if they are so desperate China will put demands on the table to take a new Role as the Saviour of the world, something that used to be the role of the IMF with the US.

China is no going to get out of this one without some rewards for their efforts.

Incredible how history is unfolding in front of our eyes and many have not clue the impact of all this financial struggle will have in the global markets future with China taking a more center stage in the world.

I truly believer they were preparing for this event and they are ready for it.

Lord have Mercy.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Yes,but China has a few Problems of its own,namely the Collapse of their "Shadow Banking System" - only remember it beeing reported in Germany,and even thats not much. It is basically a Semi-Illegal Banking System that gives Credits to millions of small Companys that produce the cheap things we consume.

Then you have the massive Housing Bubble...or rather "City-Bubble". Remember the Threads about Chinas Ghost Citys?

And lastly,even if China decides to "save" Europe by giving it the Money it needs,its just more Debt that would lead to an even bigger Crisis in the Future.


In my Opinion,China should stay out of it and let Europe fail. It may hurt in the short Term,but its better than trying to save it now which would lead to much more Damage in the long run.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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You probably right Shanon, perhaps all those trillions of dollars that China claims to have the largest foreign reserves in the world $3.2 trillion, this is what is making the EU beg for help they actually believer that China can afford to shed some of those funds.

Can the EU be that desperate?

But when the US housing bubble burst and the markets crash, we found out by "accident" how much China was up to their neck in the US mess, they still denied that they were affected that much, but the Chinese government did bailed out their own banks because after all their banks are owned by the government.

China's Ponzi came to the surface in 2009 but been a communist country they do not let many know about their mess

Perhaps worst than we think, like you said the "shadow banking system" and their 'giant Ponzi scheme' is no just speculation

But why will the EU be counting on them? to write off the debt holdings? I wonder.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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EU knows that the Chinese are basically gamblers in the bone. China will give money if it's not on Friday 13th


We don't know what's really cooking. It's not for us to see, but we know money is a dynamical category. It's not just throw a load of paper bills from one place to another.

Basically, lack of money in EU means social restructuring. What else can it be? What did Mao offer Nixon to take back to America? 20 million Chinese women. The Chinese don't know what to do with the Chinese. They will ask Europe to accept Chinese immigrants. Perhaps, to let them come back to Libya from which they were chased away, but probably much more than that. Cheap labor is a lure for EU equally, they might fall for it. I'm sure this is what EU really wants, but may face big resistance from their own population. Hell, lets hope EU finds a solution and go Chinese for the best of all


In Serbia, 20 years ago, Milosevic did get credits from China, but also some thousands of Chinese moved in. Chinese are investing in Serbia and the salary in Chinese firms is at least 4 times less than Serbian average, which is much below EU average. Go figure...




edit on 30-10-2011 by DangerDeath because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by DangerDeath
 


I can not argue with that, my friend, look what is going on in the US and China, China been invited to the US by States Governors because they are struggling and want China's business but China is not bringing prosperity but the downgrading of salaries and soon the same slave labor conditions that they have in China.

U.S. Governors Seek to Attract Chinese Investment


This year, the Commerce Department even launched a national initiative designed to attract more investment in the U.S.

That’s what happens when you systematically destroy your own manufacturing base through failed trade policies – you’re forced to beg others to invest in your economy and create jobs.

A Commerce Departmentreport even went so far as to claim that jobs created through FDI pay 30 percent more, on average, than those created by American companies.

The fact is, however, that foreign companies that create jobs in America generally pay less. Not only do they not pay as well as their American counterparts, they also drive down wages domestically.

In the auto industry, foreign companies have flocked to America in recent years. The result has been lower wages for workers at America’s Big Three automakers, a dwindling market share for Chrysler, Ford and General Motors, and an increase in outsourcing by those companies.


www.economyincrisis.org...

Perhaps that is what the EU wants for their countries too, start selling their nations one piece at a time.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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I definitely think that the old ideas of nations are falling apart. What is necessary for economy is excess and scarcity. Excess of labor, which means cheap labor, and scarcity of goods which means higher price. That is the machine.

The role of America or Europe has changed. Those used to be highly priced places because they used colonialism for cheap labor to pump their richness. Those times are over. Both places are now undergoing pauperization. The rich can do without nations. Therefore, nations will be impoverished. Cheap labor will produce both extravagant and cheap goods.

The problem is purely political. How to do it and not have a revolution at hand?
It is their intention to have recession and depression. It is a game of the rich. They compete among themselves, but they also care about each other. They are a company (com+pane, they share "bread").

They have all the means to do this. They are digging another Channel at Panama. They are buildong another Silk Road. They have captured Gadaffi's Man Made River in Libya. They will grow lots of their genetically modified potatoes in Sahara very soon. But the idea of nations stands in the way. You see the conflict between Israel and Arabs. Israel is an experimental state to prove that desert can be turned into Paradise. Now, it only takes one revolution to change the understanding of people of what their purpose was. Of course, it has been done before. Communist International was not about nations, it was about internationalism. Working class has no nation, it is a "class", defined by its role in production.

I'm afraid the men behind the scenes know all the tricks in the book. North Africa and Near East are smoldering and they will burst into fire storm to burn and mold old social structures and ideas/religions into something even more menacing.




edit on 30-10-2011 by DangerDeath because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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I don't like Soros but sometimes is good to read the what he has to say.


George Soros: Eurozone Deal Will Last One Day to Three Months

I have to agree with this, I give this week to see the whole mess of the bailout to take another meaning, with China stepping back or coming back with a new set of power rules.


George Soros has said that he thinks the Eurozone deal will only last a short time, from one day to three months.

“Veteran investor George Soros has attacked the lack of leadership at the top of the eurozone and said that the new Brussels “deal” to solve the debt crisis will only last between “one day and three months”.


Perhaps his analysis is different from ours here in this forum but he got some good points.


The first being that for all the talk of the “50% haircuts” the actual level of Greek debt is only being cut by 20%. This is because it is only private sector holders of the Greek debt that are being asked to take the haircut. Given that so much of the debt is held by public sector organizations, the total cut in the debt level simply isn’t sufficient to deal with the problem.


Well we "kind of know this already, right?


Yes, as Soros says, the markets have bounced upon the announcement of the deal but this is because almost any deal, news of any deal, would be better than the vacuum and bumbling that preceded it. However, Greece is still insolvent and increased austerity simply isn’t going to make it solvent again.


Ok, we kind of knew this one already, that our markets are run on hopes and what if.


Another way of putting this is that the Fat Lady hasn’t sung so it’s not over yet.


Actually the EU crisis is not over yet is still a lot going on and more to happen in the next few weeks.

www.forbes.com...



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 09:00 PM
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The BOJ just heavily intervened in the yen... it went up a hell lot real fast... ridiculous, it's gonna go back down. The dollar went up...
Yentervention Time

* AZUMI SAYS JAPAN INTERVENED IN THE CURRENCY MARKET
* AZUMI: JAPAN WILL CONTINUE TO INTERVENE UNTIL HE'S SATISFIED
* AZUMI SAYS INTERVENTION WAS DUE TO STRONG SIGNS OF SPECULATION - thank god Mrs Watanabe is not speculating on the short side.

So much for free markets... free markets are for terrorists!

And I present to you what could be the new lehman (even if it's smaller, it could start a chain reaction)..

Clearinghouses, Regulators Told To Prepare For MF Bankruptcy, Risk Off

* CLEARINGHOUSES SAID TO PREPARE FOR MF BANKRUPTCY, WSJ SAYS
* US REGULATORS ALSO PREPARE FOR MF BANKRUPTCY, RESTRUCTURE: WSJ

edit on 30-10-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Well, this great news along with China reluctance to bailout the EU will sure bring the circus Market to a full show tomorrow, darn I can not wait to see what will happen tomorrow.


Who would think that an investment firm dealing with Derivatives will fall into bankruptcy? hum



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