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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 08:57 AM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Incredible information, then people are asking why is protest in Wall street, nothing but corruption from every where running in this nation rampant. More information to feed the protest.

And the crocks are still free, with the exemption of a very few.

We should not be doing so nice with the protest we the citizens should go out there and do citizens arrest against the crocks and that include all of the crocks in congress also that received money from the bigger crocks in Wall Street.

At the end Goldman Sach still runs the nation, politics and still are number one in Wall Street.

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 09:01 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Indeed. Any great summary by Maddow. Still she doesn't talk about all of it, it would take hours...

German Constitutional Court Halts EFSF Approval, Issues Temporary Injunction On Further Bailout Decisions


Chart Of The Day: Savings Rate Drops To December 2007 Levels

Ooooooops again. And that saving rate is probably lower because people have NO CHOICE...

Chinese vice finance minister said details on the expansion of the European bailout fund is still unclear, adding that purchases of EFSF bonds are not on the G20 agenda. Also, EFSF’s Regling said he does not expect to reach a conclusive deal with Chinese leaders during his visit to Beijing

China shouldn't buy crappy bonds... they will lose their money.

And all the attention is on Greece. Bottom line, GREECE DOESN'T MATTER.

What matters is FRANCE and ITALY... both cannot be bailed out. Italy is on the verge of reaching the point of no return in the bond market... and France is on the verge of getting downgraded. All that is way more important than little Greece that has been in limbo for 2 years.
edit on 28-10-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 09:11 AM
Stock markets rallied yesterday as the European Union Summit notes were released, including the U.S. session, with the S&P 500 jumping 3.43 percent higher.
You may remember that the market also rallied after the U.S. announced its TARP, TALF, and Cash for Clunkers programs. Yet these rallies were unsustainable afterward because the real problems still persisted and they would take time to be fixed.
This is what I suspect will happen with the outcome of the EU Summit. They did use the magic word “trillion,” and so that helped. But let’s look at the details of what the European Union announced.
The two “biggies” were that the EFSF fund would be levered up four to five times to around 1 trillion euro ($1.4 trillion). The other is that France’s President Nicholas Sarkozy may be able to get China to help Europe out — China indicated that it “may” be willing to provide support if certain conditions were met, like contributions from other countries and strong guarantees on the safety of its investment.
There were other things that came out of the EU Summit, such as an agreement that would attempt to bring Greece’s debt-to-GDP ratio down to 120 percent by 2020.
They also agreed to try to raise investor confidence in the banking sector by increasing the capital position of banks to 9 percent of Core Tier 1 by the end of June 2012.
All of this initially sounds good when you hear about a trillion euros being set aside to deal with all of the junk and funk in the eurozone. However, when you realize that they’ll just be putting out an interim report on this by December 2011 which will then be finalized in March 2012, you realize that it will be too little done, too late.
On top of this, some leading indicators are pointing downward for Portugal and Spain right now.
Data released by the ECB shows that M1 deposits in Portugal have fallen at an annualized rate of 21 percent over the past six months. A lot of it happened in September.
Why is that important? That’s the type of “warning flares” that were going off in Greece months before the whole thing blew up in their faces over there.
In light of this, some are saying that the ECB now needs to cut interest rates and that they need to have a quantitative easing program that’s equal to about 10 percent of their GDP.
Therefore, it’s for all of these reasons why I believe that the latest EU Summit has only treated the symptoms of the patient but not the root cause of the disease yet.
You see, Europe has a monetary union but not a fiscal union. That’s a long-term problem.
They also have a divergence going on between the smaller economies and the larger economies. That’s not going to go away.
It’s hard, for example, to set interest rates that are good for Germany and expect them to be great for Greece and Portugal as well.
So I still say that the euphoria that the markets have seen will be temporary and that this rally will fade just like the TARP and TALF rallies faded here in the U.S.
TARP and TALF Didn’t Halt the Market Slide, Neither Will EFSF
I remember when the TARP program was announced on Oct. 3, 2008. The market rose, but then it faded and the downtrend continued. Then on Nov. 25, 2008, the TALF program was announced. The same thing happened. The rally from it faded and the downtrend continued.
From the time the original program was announced, it was another six months before stocks bottomed. Also, from the announcement of the TARP program, it was a year and a half later before the downtrend in the S&P 500 was broken.
So my point is that in the near-term they cause some awesome “short-covering rallies.” But over time, investors realize that the effect of these programs will take time and the euphoria fizzles.
And so it will be with the levered up EFSF program in Europe too. After all, the EFSF won’t even be in full swing until sometime after March 2012. That still leaves a lot of time for countries like Portugal or Spain to unravel between now and then.
So the “risk-on rally” may last a short while longer. But it won’t be long until the “risk-off” trade returns, as investors go back on the defensive.

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 09:14 AM
A Brief Guide To The Euro Crisis

Yes people the EU "financial leaders knows that the bailout is a piece of crap and that their financial woes are worst that they are making the people, nations and markets knows".

There are several things that you need to know about the eurozone crisis and Wednesday's Summit agreement:

It isn't over.
The European Monetary Union's (EMU) "architecture" is a failure.
They spent too much and can't possibly repay the debt.
Banks will need to be bailed out.
They will print money.

They know is going to be a failure but they still pushed, so the markets can have a temporarily boost, what a whole bunch of crocks.

A leaked document was released after the last meeting that shows that the EU leaders knows the truth of their financial mess

Last week a leaked confidential assessment of the problem that was prepared by the IMF was published by Linkiesta's Fabrizio Goria. The document revealed the IMF's private assessment of Greece and the requirements for a bailout. We were tipped off to the document by our friends The complete document can be found here.

If this is truth, we have been deceived, the Markets has been deceived

The polices they are demanding on Greece and the ones they EU is taking upon their own nations are all base on assumptions, most of them are nothing but bound to fail even before they take hold.

Here is the problem: they all know that the €440 billion won't be enough. So the French are out raising money from non-EMU members with the hope they can increase the fund from €780 to €1 trillion.

So the only reason they came out with a winner was to run to China and beg for Chinas help.

But this help comes with a sustantial power shift for China, What China doesn't get is that the whole deal is going to fail because the debt in the EU is too big. The debt is going to keep growing and nothing is going to stop it.

Thus their trip to China to beg Hu Jintao for money. The Chinese are experiencing a kind of schadenfreude over this whole thing, secretly enjoying their new power role in international finance as the Europeans go hat in hand to them for contributions for the EFSF. They have said they will contribute but they have also said they want their kilo of flesh: stop complaining about the Chinese currency exchange rates. Fair enough since they fear that it will be perceived as a bailout of the West and that won't be popular with Chinese citizens. They are entirely correct in that assessment.

Some of the bailout will have to be monetized and that is when the crap will hit the fan.

The bottom line is that the Europeans are piling debt on top of debt except that the new bonds will be paid on demand with the sovereign guarantees of EFSF. This is not popular with German and French taxpayers since they will account for almost 50% (48.51%) of the Facility. Add in Italy's 18% and these three countries are on the hook for a potential €530 billion.

You can be assured that ultimately some part of this will be monetized by the ECB.

The EU knows that Greece will never comply with the demands and that they will lose all the funds that have been diverted already into Greece

I have little faith in Papandreou's socialist PASOK government's ability to adhere to the agreement. (See "Greece: The Problem With Socialism.") I feel it may be one, if not THE, stumbling block in this whole eurozone mess.

The ponzi scheme that the EU was built upon is coming down and coming down fast regardless of Chinas help or more bailouts

The EMU is built on a weak foundation. They allowed in countries that according to the Maastricht Treaty were not supposed to run deficits of more than 3% of GDP, yet they all did, even Germany. They allowed their members to spend and borrow without regard to economic reality and now the money has run out. At some point one wonders if Germany will be outvoted and they elect to bail out debt through inflation by printing money.

It's a mess

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 09:17 AM
reply to post by Vitchilo

I wonder why? Vitchilo is because is nothing but a big scam, crocks trying to cover up their own mess, they failed the EU and now they know that no matter what the bailout is going to fail.

I posted the analysis and is not wonder why Germany will hold on the deal.


posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 09:20 AM
reply to post by Surfrat

Is only a matter of time when the Markets caught up with the bailout scam. Just a matter of time.

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 09:41 AM
OK this could be big... there's rumors floating around that France will get downgraded TODAY... after the markets close.

Shall be fun this week-end if that happens (and I think it will)...

For the first time in the modern history of Greece, the President of Greece Karolos Papoulias is forced to leave from the military parade for the celebration of the national day of October 28th!

Hundreds of thousands of people gathered in Thessaloniki, where the celebrations took place, and shouted "TRAITOR, TRAITOR" at the first citizen of Greece. He was forced to leave, stating that a small group ruined today's celebrations.


edit on 28-10-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 11:24 AM
just a heads up about this bi-weekly publication:

We address this European issue, because soon it will debut in the US. The comprehensive policy response, which we have been told existed, really doesn’t exist. We found that out last Friday. All the lies of the past two weeks by various European governments and bureaucrats, as well as Mr. Sarkozy and Mrs. Merkel, were just more delaying tactics to attempt to find a solution to Europe’s financial dilemma. As part of this display of smoke and mirrors, these hopeful signs, generated large gains in US and European stock markets, of course, with the assistance of the “President’s Working Group on Financial Markets.” At the same time as usual gold, silver and commodities markets were attacked viciously. This is how markets and economies are manipulated when in control of our corporatist fascist government.

click link for total 1 page copy

it does a rather bleak commentary on the false illusion of a very got-it-together EU plan to fix the debt issue & the Euro banking system


posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 11:32 AM
reply to post by Vitchilo


I hope thats true

Edit: Even if China somehow gives us the Money,sooner or later its gonna blow up either way. Sooner if Chinas Housing Bubble (or rather City-Bubble...) pops...
edit on 28-10-2011 by Shenon because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Shenon
reply to post by Vitchilo


I hope thats true

PS: Link?

Link when France gets downgraded not before.

S&P Issues Statement On EFSF, Says "Almost Certain" European Governments Would Support CDO

The first kicker in the just released S&P statement on the revised and AAA-rated EFSF is the following: "In our opinion, there is an "almost certain" likelihood that the EFSF's 'AAA' rated member governments would provide timely and sufficient extraordinary support to the EFSF if needed." So, uh, S&P is determining the fate of trillions worth of securities on the basis of a hunch, a whim, if you will. A strong one, but a hunch nonetheless. Swell. And the second kicker: "If we lowered the ratings on one or more of the 'AAA' rated member guarantors, we would also likely lower the ratings on funding instruments that the EFSF had issued before the date of the downgrade, if the lower ratings on the member guarantor were to lead to less than 100% 'AAA' rated coverage for the relevant EFSF funding instrument." This, in the parlance of our times, is known as a springing downgrade, which sets off the kind of cataclysm that only AIG could achieve once the investing community realized it had a rating-based collateral schedule. So once again the fate of the free world depends on FrAAAnce. Swell2.

Considering this press release, it seems France won't get downgraded tonight... not from S&P anyways.
edit on 28-10-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 12:25 PM
reply to post by Shenon

Its rumors that the reason Germany is now re-thinking its role in the bailout is due to the fact that the government is actually scare of the repercussions by the population.

I think they should demand Markel resignation.

It seems that the people still holds power in Germany.

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 12:42 PM
I love the way the news and internet sites are looking at the "good news from the EU zone" and the boost to the gambling casing in the US (I mean the markets)

Europe Tries To Kick The Can Down The Road But It Will Only Lead To Financial Disaster

Have you heard the good news? Financial armageddon has been averted. The economic collapse in Europe has been cancelled. Everything is going to be okay. Well, actually none of those statements is true, but news of the "debt deal" in Europe has set off a frenzy of irrational exuberance throughout the financial world anyway. Newspapers all over the globe are declaring that the financial crisis in Europe is over. Stock markets all over the world are soaring. The Dow was up nearly 3 percent today, and this recent surge is helping the S&P 500 to have its best month since 1974. Global financial markets are experiencing an explosion of optimism right now. Yes, European leaders have been able to kick the can down the road for a few months and a total Greek default is not going to happen right now. However, as you will see below, the core elements of this "debt deal" actually make a financial disaster in Europe even more likely in the future.

The Coming Derivatives Crisis That Could Destroy The Entire Global Financial System

The derivative crap is still going strong and with no signs of stopping adding to the same mess that created the market crash in 2008, but this time the Gamblers holds the power to push the Markets buttons at will

Most people have no idea that Wall Street has become a gigantic financial casino. The big Wall Street banks are making tens of billions of dollars a year in the derivatives market, and nobody in the financial community wants the party to end. The word "derivatives" sounds complicated and technical, but understanding them is really not that hard. A derivative is essentially a fancy way of saying that a bet has been made. Originally, these bets were designed to hedge risk, but today the derivatives market has mushroomed into a mountain of speculation unlike anything the world has ever seen before. Estimates of the notional value of the worldwide derivatives market go from $600 trillion all the way up to $1.5 quadrillion. Keep in mind that the GDP of the entire world is only somewhere in the neighborhood of $65 trillion.

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 12:44 PM
What would obviously happen has now happened...

The Global Moral Hazard Dawns: Merkel Says "It Must Be Prevented That Others Come Seeking A Haircut" As Ireland Cuts GDP Forecast

Just about 48 hours after it was duly noted as the greatest threat to the Eurozone in the post bailout world, Germany finally grasps the enormity of what global moral hazard truly means. As we said before, the biggest risk facing Europe, and by that we mean undercapitlized French banks (all of them) obviously, is not Greece or what haircut is applied to the meaningless €100 billion in Greek debt when all the exclusions are accounted for. It is what happens when everyone else understands they now have a carte blanche to pull a Greece at will. And while until now we had some glimmer of hope there was a behind the scenes agreement for this glaringly obvious deterioration to not manifest itself, Merkel just opened her mouth and proved our worst fears wrong. As Reuters reports, "Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Friday it was important to prevent others from seeking debt reductions after European Union leaders struck a deal with private banks to accept a nominal 50 percent cut on their Greek government debt holdings. "In Europe it must be prevented that others come seeking a haircut," she said." Too late, Angie, far, far too late. Because, just as expected, here comes Ireland and literally a few hours ago, launched the first warning shot that will imminently lead to what will be demands to pari passu treatment with Greece.

Why shouldn't indebted countries in Europe say Greece got a rebate on their debt, so they want one too? I mean, it's basic human behavior... People act like children, even when they are adults. They see someone getting a free pass, so they want a free pass too, doesn't matter the implications.
edit on 28-10-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 01:04 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

And the Markets boom yesterday is covering up the worst of what Americas economy is actually looking like

The New Reality For U.S. Cities: No Money For Street Lights, Roving Packs Of Wild Dogs And Open-Air Drug Markets

If you want to know what the early stages of an economic collapse look like, just walk around some of the downtown areas of our major cities.

Today, nearly all large U.S. cities are either flat broke or they are on the way to being flat broke. Yes, New York City and Washington D.C. (and a few others) are still doing fairly well, but for most U.S. cities economic reality is catching up with them very quickly.

Right now, there are a number of major cities that are so broke that they cannot keep the street lights operating. Down in St. Louis, parents in some areas are carrying golf clubs with them as they walk their kids to school in order to fend off roving packs of wild dogs. In other major U.S. cities, open-air drug markets conduct business without fear. All over the United States, cities that used to be clean and prosperous and full of hope are now being transformed into post-industrial wastelands. We are certainly not in "Mad Max" territory yet, but it doesn't take too much imagination to see where all of this is headed. ets

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 01:51 PM

Heil Merkel!
I bet that pic is illegal in Germany.

"Adolf Merkel": Presenting The Greek Gratitude For The 50% Debt Haircut

reply to post by marg6043

From your article :

But it is not just Detroit that is having a major problem. Over in Highland Park, Michigan the majority of the street lights have been repossessed because the city was not keeping up with the electricity bill.

Now that's freaking epic.
I often talk to my dad about all these things and it's getting so surreal he won't believe me most of the time... I bet he won't believe me on this one.

edit on 28-10-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 01:57 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

That picture is the bomb, I tell you, our nation have to be that screw when street lights are repossessed.

posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 04:25 AM

Labour row grounds Qantas flights

The Australian airline Qantas is to ground all international and domestic flights with immediate effect due to an industrial dispute.

Chief executive Alan Joyce called his decision "unbelievable".

The airline has been hit by a series of costly strikes.

Baggage handlers, engineers and pilots have been involved in the action which the company says is costing A$15m (US$16m) a week.

Relations between the unions and Qantas management started deteriorating in August after the airline announced plans for restructuring and moving some operations to Asia.


The restructuring is expected to mean the loss of 1,000 jobs from its 35,000-strong workforce.

The Australian minister for transport, Anthony Albanese, said the government would take action to intervene in the dispute.

"We are very concerned about Qantas' actions, of which we were notified only mid-afternoon, with no advance notice from Qantas at any stage," he said.

"The government is making an urgent application to Fair Work Australia [an industrial court] to terminate all industrial action at Qantas. This will be aimed at both actions by unions and by Qantas management."

Well, yeah. Corporations are not working in the interest of people. Good morning governments

posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 05:06 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Imagine a hard winter for the US. Every broke cities won't laugh if we end up with the same winter as last year.

Heck, we are still paying for the 500 cm winter we had in 08 via our municipal taxes. I don't know the numbers for a city like Boston but we are talking millions more on budgets that aren't calculated if its a bad winter with alot of snowstorms.

posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 07:56 AM
Let the propaganda begin :

Europe at war 2018

German troops storm Greece. Putin's tanks crush Latvia. France humbles the British Army. Unlikely, yes, but as Angela Merkel says euro meltdown could endanger peace, a historian's imagination runs riot...

For by February 2012, it was terrifyingly obvious that the latest eurozone package had failed. In Greece, protests against the government’s austerity measures had turned into daily running battles, while much of Western Europe had now sunk back into recession.

A month later, after an angry mob had invaded the Greek parliament itself, Greece announced it was withdrawing from the euro. Almost overnight, the European markets were hit by the biggest losses in financial history.

As law and order collapsed on the streets of Athens, France and Germany sent in 5,000 ‘peacekeepers’ to restore calm. But when they came under attack from petrol-bomb throwing demonstrators, it was clear that more drastic action might be needed.

Meanwhile, the Greek collapse was sending shockwaves across Europe.

With the markets turning their attention to Italy, and Silvio Berlusconi’s beleaguered government struggling to maintain order, Europe’s fifth largest economy was suddenly at risk.

Ridiculous, but still funny read if you like this kind of stuff.

Funny thing about this is that a part of it will happen for sure... the ``deal`` won't work. Greece will fall. Italy will fall. Europe will fall... but it won't lead to massive war in Europe... not between countries anyway.
edit on 29-10-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 11:55 AM
reply to post by eagleeye2

Get ready becasue this winter is going to be very cold, Winter 2011-2012 Forecast: Another Brutal One

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