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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Oct, 25 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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Im going to read my tea leaves here and tell you what i think is going to happen.

The Euro Nations cant decide on how to fix this problem. I see France and Germany in back room dealing to get out of the Euro and back into the Franc and Duchmark ( dont know if i spelled that right).

Both countrys will close there banks the same day and make the switch from euros to there own countrys currancy but keep there debts in the Euro. The Euro will crash and France and Germany will be able to pay there debts pennys on the dollar!

This will create a hostile like move but what are these small and over debted countrys going to do? they cant fund a war.

those are my thoughts.

I really dont see any other solution, do you guys?
edit on 25-10-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 25 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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Greek parliament gives final approval on austerity bill

Surprise surprise... not.

Italian government on the verge of collapse... Poor little Berlusconi...


GREEK BONDHOLDER LOSS WILL BE 60%, ANA CITES VERHOFSTADT SAYING

And if that happens, the ECB goes bankrupt, not to mention most french banks (short of another bailout that is).


Charting The Impact Of Eurozone Meetings On The Most Critical European Security

As the following chart from Reuters indicates, annotating the relentless rise in Italian yields (which have about 100 bps in buffer from full out Eurozone collapse: if the 10 Year BTP hits 7.00% it's game over), the half life of the mere meeting in terms of favorable impact is now negligible and in fact, negative. Just like BOJ (and, some would add, Fed) interventions in the market now do more harm than good, so hollow Eurozone meetings without any actual resolution, simply make the Eurozone troubles that much more acute. Keep a close eye on the BTPs. They are already at 6% following last week's tumble first documented on Zero Hedge. If the price drops that much more, that will be it for the EMU experiment.

Because if Italy goes, it's gonna cost at least 2 trillion to save it... good luck with that when they can't even save Greece that is worth much much much less.

Europe is coming to an end. Good. But I bet they try a few last things before the lights go out... like massive printing or forcing an United States Of Europe... which will bring lots of riots of course.



posted on Oct, 25 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Printing is probably the only Solution they have left. The only Question is,what will happen if they start the Printing Presses...

The Collapse of the entire Fiat-System is going to happen anyway. Either trough Hyperinflation,or Sudden De(bt)ath.



posted on Oct, 25 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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As I was reading the link to this "Italy" saga, its also hopes that they can meet their budget. You all know the markets they love to run on hopes and dreams.


Italy budget targets reachable but political unity needed according... to the director-general of the Bank of Italy, Fabrizio Saccomanni, said on Tuesday.


Sooo, yes is hope "before the bankruptcy tunnel"


uk.reuters.com...



posted on Oct, 25 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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Going back to the 1960s, almost every major long term market top looks something like this:



The market has a very impulsive move up, followed by a quick re-tracement to some recently achieved high, then a slow "backwards U" at the new price level.

What's cool about this pattern is that it's followed by an impulsive decline almost every time, whether as a long term top or not. Researching something based solely on a look before a big decline can bias the results, so it's cool that this works on both levels.

So, why do I mention this?

The market right now has a "perfect look" in almost every sector. Silver, Copper, the Dollar (backwards), SP500, etc.. all are at the levels normally seen by a top in this wave structure. It's no coincidence that this is happening a day before major news from Europe.

Based on this and a few other things mentioned on this board recently, it's my opinion that we have now seen or will see shortly (like next few hours, no later than tomorrow) a major market top that will last years. October 24-26 is the date.
edit on 25-10-2011 by CarlosAranha because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2011 @ 06:19 PM
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S&P affirms Canada's sovereign credit ratings at 'AAA/A-1+'

Well that's nice... especially considering all our big banks are very badly capitalized... and that once Europe goes and the US go, our banks go too... and they are worth way more than the GDP...

S&P, full of it, as always.



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 05:03 AM
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Chinese diplomat in Brussels says China supports EU efforts to deal with debt crisis, but there is nothing concrete on investing in EFSF SPV

Awwwwwwwwwwwww ...



According to head of Italian bank foundation association, Italian banks are solid, and do not face same crisis as other European banks

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Liar liar pants on fire. Unicredit for one is bankrupt. Intesa Sanpado is probably on the verge too. Those two banks are worth more than Italy's GDP... so please.

Merkel just keep on being a biatch.

Merkel: No one should take another 50 years of peace in Europe for Granted

Just like tanks will be in the street if you don't pass the bank bailout Paulson uh?? What a biatch.


* MERKEL SAYS JUSTIFIABLE TO MAXIMISE EFSF FIREPOWER
* MERKEL SAYS GERMANY `IS NOT THE NAVEL OF THE WORLD'
* MERKEL SAYS EURO CAN'T BE ALLOWED TO FAIL
* MERKEL CITES 'HISTORIC DUTY' TO PRESERVE EUROPE, EURO

Yes Euro can be allowed to fail. And give me a break historic duty to preserve the EU and the Euro... freaking witch.

Mario Draghi Says Situation In Italy Is "Confusing And Dramatic" - As Is All Of Europe Today

Merkel Says EU Treaties Must Be Changed, via BBG - this is Germany showing everyone who is boss.

* Not looking for a rerun of Lisbon Treaty changes
* Changes intended to target chronic debt offenders
* Lawsuits must be possible against EU debt offenders
* Too little regulation led to crisis
* Reiterates backing for financial transaction tax, Germany will do ‘everything’ to push EU plan on tax

Merkel Says Will Also Look at Regulation of Hedge Funds

* Says German short-selling ban was successful

When all else fails: use diversion, scapegoat the one you hope to bail you out:

* MERKEL SAYS U.S., JAPAN ALSO SUFFER UNDER EXCESS DEBT
* MERKEL SAYS `EUROPE IS NOT ALONE' IN SHOULDERING DEBTS
* MERKEL SAYS CRISIS `WILL OCCUPY US FOR YEARS'

And when you cut down to the chase, it is really the G20's fault:

* MERKEL SAYS G-20 HAS ROLE TO PATROL EXCESS DEBT AMONG MEMBERS

Merkel is a disgusting witch.

Germany, I hope you give her what she deserves... soon.
edit on 26-10-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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According to a senior EU source, IMF thinks 60% Greek debt write-down is not enough, and it should be 65% or more



Poor little ECB and poor little French banks are gonna go booooooooooom if that materializes... (and it will)



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 08:17 AM
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The global debt was created by the gamblers holding the wealth of nations, now they don't want the rest of the world and citizens to see how the deceiving them, nothing but corruption running nations this days.

Only a revolution of citizens against this corruption can fix the problem, because the corrupted leaders and the ones behind this mess are not going to do it without raping the citizens again and again.

Shame of all the politicians whores under the ruling elite.



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Germany disappoints once again...

Bundestag Passes EFSF As Levered Insurance Policy Motion

* PARLIAMENTARY SOURCE SAYS GERMANY'S BUNDESTAG LOWER HOUSE OF PARLIAMENT APPROVES MOTION TO STRENGTHEN EFSF VIA LEVERAGE
* 503 vote in favor of the measure; 89 voted against, while four abstained in Berlin today - so this is a surprise we take it?

Disgusting really.



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Its getting increasingly difficult to watch this Farce day after day...I´m losing my last shred of Hope that we will get out of this without slowly bleeding to Death first (Hyperinflation)...I prefer a fast Death (Full Crash),thank you very much



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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Yep. I'm sick of their games.


* EU TALKS WITH BANKS ON GREEK BOND LOSSES SAID TO BE DEADLOCKED
* EU TALKS 'PAUSED' ON A DISPUTE ON INSURING RISKS OF NEW BONDS
* EU official says dispute centers on insuring risk of new bonds.
* Involuntary Greek haircuts can’t be ruled out
* EU Said to Consider Limits on EU-IMF Loans in 2nd Greek Rescue

If this can crash the whole thing.... please?



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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Europeans hopes lift Street...




posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by DangerDeath
Europeans hopes lift Street...



Not for long.


* EU Official Says Bank Heads Won’t Be at Summit Table Tonight
* EU leaders may frame agenda for more bank talks on bondholder losses in 2nd bailout
pkg for Greece.
* Says IIF doesn’t entirely represent private banks

And the kicker:

* Says Greek debt swap would take several weeks


Awwwwwwwwwwwww



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 09:33 AM
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well...along with the 'bonds' morphing into Insurance policies as approved by the German lawmakers...

theres this:

www.cnbc.com...

EU Leaders May Give Guarantees to Banks: Draft



Published: Wednesday, 26 Oct 2011 | 7:40 AM ET

By: Reuters





European Union governments may give guarantees to banks seeking funding in order to avoid a credit crunch and to keep them lending to the economy, according to a draft statement from EU leaders who meet in Brussels on Wednesday evening.

The statement also said there was "broad agreement" on bolstering the capital ratio of banks to 9 percent after taking into account the market worth of their sovereign debt holdings, but it gave no overall figure for recapitalising EU banks.

"This quantitative capital target will have to be attained by June 30, 2012,"



this is a redux of the USAs Federal Reserve actions... giving all the banks a guaranteed underwriter via the taxpayers of the European community..

. just more of the same stuff that went on here, like Investor Banks being re-branded bank-holding-companies/ or just utility banks ---
which continue to produce more & more toxic paper which ammounts to individual banks creating money out-of-thin-air instead of only their Central Bank...


... that 9% of fractional reserve has until mid year 2012 to be actual...a lot of jimmy-the-numbers has 8 months to produce results as i see it...
edit on 26-10-2011 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


More delaying Tactics...they are probably going to kick the can down the Road a bit longer,at least til the End of November me thinks.

Don´t want to kill your sick Pet? Wait until it dies,painfully,on its own...

Edit: And HERE we can watch the European Comedy Club Live,and in Color!
edit on 26-10-2011 by Shenon because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-10-2011 by Shenon because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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I found this information quite interesting taking into consideration the newest saga in the EU zone, perhaps one of the main reasons the EU countries can not find common ground on how to tackle their bank problem.

Germany Is Already Printing Money… Deutsche Marks!!!

If this is true then the reason for the delay and pushing for more money is because Germany is not so willing to cooperate.




OK, this is the analysis in the topic.


few are talking about another possibility… GERMANY leaving the EU.

One who is talking about this is Dr Pippa Malmgren, a former economic advisor to George W. Bush and a Director for Deutsche Bank. According to Malmgren, Germany has already ordered the printing of Deutsche Marks in anticipation of a possible withdrawal from the EU.


If this is true then things are worst that we may think, occurs only if they are true without Germany is not going to be any bailout, right?


Malmgren states, "the social contract between Germany's citizens and its leaders preclude (debt monetization) given their history." She adds that, "Germany has already begun to emphasize the need for a new EU Treaty that would compel fiscal harmonization, penalties for those that break the Maastricht Treaty rules and other undertakings that would harden Europe's defenses against economic default risks going forward."


Now the analyst are saying that with this not very much advertised development the Euro is death

But many here with better inside than me has said this already.



Germany is widely held to be the strongest balance sheet in the EU (though even the Head of its Central Bank admits that the country's real Debt to GDP is over 200%).

However, compared to the PIIGS, Germany is relatively rock solid from a fiscal point of view. It's also the largest economy in the EU. So if the Germany pulls out (70% of Germans believe the Euro has no future) then Europe will experience a wave of defaults starting with Greece and spreading throughout the PIIGS.

We're already seeing hints of this occurring. Germany Vice Chancellor, Philip Roesler said on September 11 that Germany won't participate in any more bailouts and that any German politicians who approve more bailouts is committing political suicide.


So the whole analysis is base on this littler fact, Germany is adamant to do anymore bailouts.

Could it be true or just a trick


We also have reports of Sarkozy and Merkel screaming at each other in recent meetings. France has announced plans to possibly nationalize several banks just "in case." And Germany has dropped more than a few hints that it's fed up with the situation


So the Queen of the EU and the Germany leader has been at each other during their meetings, now how come we don't get the juicy details here in the news?

Meanwhile the US economy Killer Greenspan is also predicting the end of the Euro. Yeah that bad.

So, the hints are there, but the markets are not really taking that much of the hints here in the US, but in the EU they are, trouble is brewing in the Queens of the EU paradise



Folks, something VERY bad is brewing behind the scenes. The Sarkozy- Merkel talks, the short-selling bans, the halted stocks, the leveraged EFSF, the hints of QE 3, all of this is telling us that the financial system is on DEFCON 1 Red Alert.


I love the references to DEFCON 1 Red Alert, is hilarious.


www.istockanalyst.com...

If you read the article stay on the first page the second page is just advertisement on how to invest on dark times.


One of the reasons I am a littler bit skeptical about the article itself.



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I don´t really know. There are signs here in Germany that something is brewing regarding a possible Currency-Reform. Since 2010 actually if some Sources are to be believed.

But Merkel is all about "Saving Europe","If the Euro fails,Europe fails" and all that Crap all the Time...I doubt that she has any Clue of what she is doing lately...



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Shenon
 


The way she talks she is trying to keep the status quo by any means she can but what gets me is what she have to gain from all this that will still be profitable for her after she leaves the government.


Still so far for what I have read, the only nation that would actually be unschated by a EU fall out is actually Germany.

How in the heck she got into power in Germany? are the people happy with her?.

It seems a big struggle going on with her and France or be her and the People of Germany.



posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


A Seat in a "United States of Europe" maybe? Schäuble (this senile, crazy old bag we call Finance Minister) said sometime ago that he wants a Seat in Brussels...

I don´t know,there are Polls that showed 90 % or so that didn´t want the EFSF before the Sep. 29 Vote...

You know whats funny? Most,if not all Members of the Parlament today, don´t really understand what they voted on today...but they still voted YES. Because the Boss of the Party said so...

We don´t have a Democracy anymore,we have a Party-Dictatorship.



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