The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Yeah, right. What are they doing with all that money?
I'll tell ya.
Manipulating market.

It is a fact that "they" are possessed by that idea. They can't break loose. It's simply just that.
There is absolutely no other reason all this is happening.

People call it "greed". Greed doesn't explain anything because when you say greed it seems like you are in control of it. That's not true. The idea sucks people inside it by the power of vacuum (like vacuum cleaner).

We can watch in amazement how our hand reaches for a chocolate bar - but we cannot stop it.

This world is all a farce and pretense. It cannot be serious despite the "stone faces" telling us situation is grave.

reply to post by pause4thought


Oh sorry that was me and my friends.. I honestly can't count how many bottles we've gone through this summer! I'm glad to have done my part to help our Scottish friends, but I'm a Worldly drinker, and I've helpfully supported Kentucky and Canada as well.

On a gloomier note CDS numbers now place Greek default at 98% today .. meaning by October the Greek economy should be dead. Fear October I tell you..

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Someday after it all crashes down, I suppose we'll find out where it all went.

That money is probably funneled in drug cartels, mercenaries, big corporations so they can sell at below price and destroy competition... and then buy them on the cheap.

Paying bribes. Buying natural resources in third world countries. Etc...

It's all about centralization of power.

edit on 12-9-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

Centralization of power in a form of "power grid". Beats the logic of "centralization", but someone made a thread on this.

I also came to conclusion that Global means Network. It's not pure geometrical forms any more.

planetsave.com...

reply to post by St Udio


Oh, my god, did anybody noticed how the propaganda machine been interview in CNBC were praising the US markets and JPMorgan for been able to stay steady while the EUrozone is falling in chaos with the downgrade of French banks and the Greek imminent default.

What a joke, they were boasting how America's markets seems to be a good example that things can only get better.

Meanwhile BOA is reconstructing to take care of their problem and that is good, even when 40,000 jobs will be lost.

What a rat this big elite people are (priority profits, screw anything else).

reply to post by DangerDeath

I have to disagree here, and why I really want to see a thread someday. Maybe I'll put a day or two into putting one together. It's not the corruption and graft as it's always been. Globally, the cost of goods hasn't really changed much since the 1980's. Not meaningfully when the difference in numbers being tossed around have changed from billions to trillions. It's like comparing a 3. Earthquake to a 9 by saying it's only triple on the scale. The sheer scope of the amounts of money that have come into being then been distributed and vanished into the ether in the last 6-10 years is breathtaking and beyond all comparison in history.

That is what I am really curious about in where it's all gone. We aren't seeing grand projects built or even grand monuments to sheer greed or hubris by the men everyone attributes to stealing the money. As I noted though, it's gone somewhere and if we can't look around and see any apparent change from the world before and after trillions were dumped into it, I have to wonder, Where DID it go???

The economy is about taxing. This is what they are improving constantly. More and more things to tax. Think about it.
They won and now they are reluctant to start a new match. They will cannibalize the people they tax.

Greek Fiasco:

Germany has demanded Greece stick to the Austerity and budget proposals laid out by the EU and IMF or else be left to suffer alone, sacrificing the greek economy as Germans no longer feel bound to save them if they won't save themselves........

Greece's biggest problem? Cheating on your taxes is a national pastime. Athens demanded that power companies place a household levy on the power bills as a way to get people to pay taxes or loose electricity.

The power company said !*&$ you.

They sent tax enforcement out in force, to ensure everyone pays their bills .. but the salarys of tax collectors got cut (specifically their "bonus pay") .. they told Athens !@$! you. Currently, they are on strike as of today.

In the first eight months of the year, the country’s budget deficit was €18.1 billion ($24.7 billion), already exceeding the annual target of €17.1 billion ($23.3 billion). The ministry attributed the bulk of the shortfall to the deeper than expected recession this year — the Greek economy is expected to contract a further 5.3 percent

Part of the major economic contraction came from airport and taxi drivers striking through the heart of the tourist season, turning Athens and other major sites into a gridlocked nightmare lol... so self destructive..

www.washingtonpost.com... cMK_story.html

There is absolutely no pay in hell Greece can get out of this mess, short of a massive infusion of interest free cash. Currently the 10 year notes are at 24%, 1 year notes at 95%

Safest thing for the Eurozone would be to force Greece out of the currency, giving them economic access that a few other non-EU nations enjoy, while leaving their economy to themselves..

Greece's deputy finance minister is saying their funds will last into October. Difficult to see the situation remaining 'normal' till the last Euro drops out of their coffers, though:

European banks rocked by Greek default fears

Fears of a Greek default rocked European banking shares and led to warnings that US stock markets could fall more than 20pc as contagion spreads globally.

France's biggest lenders saw their shares fall more than 10pc amid fears their credit ratings will be downgraded over exposure to Greek debt, while global stock markets dropped sharply.

The FTSE saw £22bn knocked off its value, closing down 85.03 at 5129.62. The Cac-40 in France ended 4pc lower and the Dax in Frankfurt was down 2.3pc after touching its lowest point since July 2009.

In the US, the Dow Jones closed up 0.6pc at 11061.12. It was trading down 0.8pc in the afternoon, with analysts at Bank of America souring the mood further by warning that the S&P 500 – which was 1pc lower at 1145.57 – could fall as far at 910. The warning came as Bank of America announced 30,000 job cuts as it looks to adjust to tough trading conditions.

Market concerns escalated after Germany hardened its tone over bail-out loans for Greece, with Chancellor Angela Merkel backing remarks from her economy minister suggesting that an "orderly default" could no longer be ruled out.

German officials reiterated that Greece must meet bail-out terms to secure the next tranche of loans while the embattled country's deputy finance minister suggested cash could run low from next month. "We have definite manoeuvering space within October," said Philippos Sachinidis when asked how long the government would be able to pay wages and pensions.

BTW, how many are aware that the Greek PM, Papandreou, sold $1.3 billion credit default swap contracts, in December 2009, shortly after coming to power, now worth €27 billion, to his cronies? Greek lawyers, economists, and an MP (during a session in parliament), not to mention the masses, are accusing him of treachery both on these grounds, and over his giving over all Greek assets, present and future, to the Troika (the IMF, the European Central Bank & the EU): the full story. Apparently the terms of the rescue package even include giving over to foreign agencies the right to collect the taxes on the Greek people!

Hoping this won't inflate me own damn ego ..

Filippos Sachinidis's statements confirm previous comments by Greek officials, made on condition of anonymity, that the country had cash for only a few more weeks.

"We have definitely maneuvering space within October," Sachinidis said in an interview on television channel Mega, responding to questions how much longer the government will be able to pay wages and pensions.

Greeks expect to run out of cash in the 3rd-4th week of October unless an 8 billion dollar package is offered to see them through the rest of the year..

www.athensnews.gr...

reply to post by Rockpuck


News is certainly coming in thick & fast!

Here's some more juicy tidbits from the article mentioned above:

The euro dropped to a 10-year low versus the yen and a seven-month low against the dollar as currency traders shifted their holdings to safe havens. The shift to the yen keeps alive the risk that Japanese authorities will follow the Swiss in intervening to weaken their currency.

"With the Swiss National Bank drawing a line in the sand, investors looking to exit the eurozone troubles are seeking the safety of the yen," said Jane Foley, senior currency strategist at Rabobank. The pound fell to a two-month low versus the dollar, with the yield of 10-year gilts hitting record lows of 2.198pc on safe-haven buying.

Markets braced themselves for credit rating downgrades for France's top banks, with speculation that Moody's will lower the ratings on BNP Paribas, Credit Agricole and Societe Generale. Credit Agricole shares fell 10.6pc, Societe Generale slid 10.5pc and BNP was off 12.4pc.

Societe Generale claimed its exposure to periphery eurozone debt was €4.3bn (£3.7bn), a level it labelled "declining and manageable". It said it would nonetheless speed up asset disposals and cut costs to free up capital.

BNP Paribas issued a statement in which it pointed out that Moody's had put French banks on review for downgrade as far back as June and that no rating decision had been "communicated". The bank said it had €3.5bn of exposure to Greek sovereign debt.

According to a report by the Bank for International Settlements, released in June, French banks top the list of creditors to Greek debt, with $56.7bn (£35.8bn) of exposure.

Bond yields for Europe's periphery nations were also hit hard. Italy sold €7.5bn of one-year debt at an average yield of 4.15pc, the highest level since September 2008.

Meanwhile, credit default swaps (CDS) on Greek debt – which measure the likelihood of default – soared to a record 3,650 basis points and Italian CDS broke through the 500 barrier for the first time.

Source

Societe Generale claimed its exposure to periphery eurozone debt was €4.3bn (£3.7bn), a level it labelled "declining and manageable". It said it would nonetheless speed up asset disposals and cut costs to free up capital.

Yeah right. You betcha SocGen is in bigger trouble than that.

SocGen will go bankrupt if they don't get a bailout.

reply to post by pause4thought


US is not far behind with over 45 billion to lose if Greece default and that is just what is counted in the books the rest is many other areas of the Greece economy, this means that the corrupted US financial as usual has done other dirty deals that may no show in the books.

And all those that are invested in Greece say : no biggie, I'm insured with CDS!!

Well guess what... WHO exactly is paying for those CDS? Other bankrupt people?

Let's say Bank 1 has $30 billion in Greek assets... and they gonna lose $15 billion. BUT they have CDS with Bank 2 worth $30 billion.

Bank 2 has almost no liquidity because of the ongoing crisis.

Now Greece goes under... Bank 1 loses $15 billion. Bank 2 has even less money because of the crisis that Greece going under creates. Bank 1 asks Bank 2 for their $30 billion. Bank 2 has got no money.

So result : Bank 1 loses $15 billion. Bank 2 is in big trouble and they owe Bank 1 $30 billion.

Not only that, but Bank 1 not being paid creates another crisis... because investors think... well if they didn't get paid this time... what else have they got CDS on as insurance and who will pay or not those CDS?

So instead of just Bank 1 losing $15 billion, because of CDS, Bank 2 is probably going down, and Bank 1 will lose much more than $15 billion because they have proven to their investors that their whole accounting could be based on BS (which it is).

And guess what people, there's HUNDREDS OF TRILLIONS in CDS.

Dinda tell ya

Italian government 'in bond buying talks with China

www.bbc.co.uk...

The FT reported that Lou Jiwei, the chairman of China Investment Corporation, had met Italian finance minister Giulio Tremonti and other officials in Rome last week.

It added that Italian officials had visited Beijing the week before, and negotiations had also taken place in August.


As well as buying bonds, the FT said the talks also covered investments in "strategic" Italian companies.

It is a natural consequence of creditor and debtor nations, one supporting the other”

Wu Xiaoling, a former deputy governor of the People's Bank of China and now a senior government official, said on Tuesday that Beijing was ready to work with Europe to boost market confidence.

"We will continue to support Europe's measures in maintaining a stable euro," he told the Reuters news agency.

News that China is looking at Italian assets caused US stocks to rebound in late afternoon trading on Monday, cutting their earlier losses.

www.marketwatch.com...

China sees Europe as ‘too important to fail’

Speculation that China may help rescue peripheral European debt markets is consistent with Beijing’s strategic interests in the region and a prudent backstopping of its euro-denominated investments, analysts say.

Same smell
Same KITCHEN

reply to post by DangerDeath


Sooooo, this how China is going to get into the EU bailing out business they are waiting when things get so bad that they will look like the saviors.

Hell why not, they are going to start buying one country at a time.

With all the American dollars and gold they have they can buy Greece.

And make it their summer Island retrieve.

I was just wondering.
at the end of last week we had bad news on a friday so the market fell on the monday and
on the tuesday the market was up and down all day. the same thing happened a couple of weeks
ago. Just an annalogy but it looks alot what surfers do to get extra speed out of small waves,
once the wave becomes to small to get any speed out of it they pump the boad, called "Milking"
If I had lost a lot of money in the first big drop, i'd be buyng of on the way up on any small rise
and selling at the first sign of a drop, it would be hard work but it would still make money.
especially if those shares arn't going to pay mutch of a divid end. you would have to be agile
to do it. most "mom and dad investers arn't. the end result is those who are active and quick
will make lots of money before a chrash.

'We can no longer borrow dollars. U.S. money-market funds are not lending to us anymore," a bank executive for BNP Paribas, who declines to be named, told me last week. "Since we don't have access to dollars anymore, we're creating a market in euros. This is a first. . . . We hope it will work, otherwise the downward spiral will be hell. We will no longer be trusted at all and no one will lend to us anymore."

Don't worry, it's all good! China is gonna save everyone... If they don't China will lose a lot of money. But... it might be better to cut your loses than go full in and lose everything.

Tim Geithner Tells Germany It Has To Sacrifice More Taxpayer Money To Protect The Status Quo
Germany should tell Geithner to go screw a crocodile or something.

China’s banks are better: Here’s why

Commentary: We need to admit that banks and governments are one

www.marketwatch.com...

Interesting article. Just one short quotation, but the rest is also very interesting, if not indicative.

We tend to think of Washington and Wall Street as two separate entities. We think of the latter as private enterprise, and the former as the rule maker.

But with the financial crisis, along with the bailouts and “reforms” that followed, banking and government are more than just intertwined. They’re essentially the same entity. If one falters, so goes the other.

The U.S. banking industry is more like China’s than we want to admit. Except it’s worse. At least China’s managed financial system works in harmony and the centralized decision-making there is part of a bigger plan.

In the U.S. market, there is no plan. Instead, competing agendas of lawmakers, regulators and bankers have ground the system to a halt. Lawmakers want to please the industry as well their own constituents — an impossible task since those interests are by nature opposed. Regulators want to flex their muscle, cover their butts and justify their existence. The bankers just want to make a lot of money.

Comparing America and China, in favor of China, coming to open. Tsk tsk tsk

"cover their buts"

reply to post by Vitchilo


Poor crocodile...