The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by Rockpuck


Thats a Question i asked myself more and more lately. Why delay the invitable (sp?). It only gets worse the longer you kick the Can down the Road,thats a Fact.

Are they delaying it until all Pieces are in Place? (For a NWO Scenario for example). Are they waiting for something else to happen? (Like a Global Natural Disaster,an Asteroid for example). Are they waiting for someone? (Alien Attack for example). Or are they waiting for the right Time? (If they follow some Guideline or Prophecy,for example)

The first one (waiting for all Pieces to be in Place) is my favoured,and most likely one. But you have to ask yourself,if they didn´t already lose Control of their own Scenario...

What people are trying to do is make an overworked thing work. That will never happen. It has to be abandoned.

Nobody is in control. They only pretend.

You have to be creative, not conservative, in this phase of development.
As a painter and writer, I can tell you - one has to abandon overworked pieces and start from scratch.
It is in the nature of the world/things to go overripe. You can't save rotten apple. You can't use it for anything. Nobody is in control of this. You can't go back in time and make things work - Orwell showed what happens when you insist to the end - repair history as much as you want, you'll be just creating more misery.

Debt economy, based on depleting, never worked. Using promises (bank credits, indulgences) to make the world go ends exactly in what we have now, and it has happened many times in history.

Then, the people "in power" try to save their asses by making everyone accuse everyone else - this means war. The wizards of Oz...

Society is never the solution, society is always in turmoil, always something needs to be done, and never what is done is a real solution. The whole concept of society is wrong. The whole concept of life (because it feeds on life of others) is wrong.

People chose to believe their own ignorance will save them. Oh yeah!

Karl Denninger believes his parrhesia will work. It won't. Telling truth never works. Truth cannot affect people. People are being carried away by a torrent of life, they never pay attention to the ones on the coast. They believe that the goal is somewhere out there, at the open sea. It never occurs to them to go back to the shore.

In 6.000 years of history, there never was a successful government. Never. And yet, people chose to believe that it is possible that the scum (named by Vitchillo) are doing their best. The only thing they are doing is make sure everyone follows them into the abyss. People are conditioned to feel so. People are conditioned to FEEL proud to go and die in trenches of the big war. One such FEELING is enough for a pay for the masses to commit suicide.

Human beings are so cheap. No wonder their world is a cheap, rotten piece of useless mess.

reply to post by Vitchilo

To add to the "liar liar pants on fire" calls Germany is now reported to be working a plan to recapitalize their banks if Greece defaults...

...Remember that we were just told days ago that these banks were fine and needed no capital and in fact calls for more capital by the IMF were officially refused. The same claim has been made about our banks. You were just told officially by Germany that their claim of adequate capital just days ago was a lie as they are now planning to recapitalize the banks. Do you believe our banks are not similarly exposed and also insolvent?

Possibly the only reason it is not all over the MSM is to prevent a run on the banks. Then again, fairly large sums are guaranteed by government-appointed bodies in the case of banks going down, which doubtless also has a calming affect. Of course if hyperinflation did hit, those 'large sums' could turn to peanuts.

Alas, for France... Bloomberg reports that the abovementioned banks "may have their credit ratings cut by Moody’s Investors Service as soon as next week because of their Greek holdings...

... only ``upside`` to this will be the end of the scam. No EFSF. Or they will pin ALL the debt on Germany. And if they do get to do this, when it all collapses, Germany will have the worst depression in history.

Both the German people, and the government, know this. I'd say they would cut loose the weaker economies before accepting that scenario: a two-tier Eurozone.


reply to post by OBE1

No doubt, T. Durdan & Company have a penchant for the dramatic, but with a potential debt downgrade sure to add additional stress to the EU financial system, lets see what happens mañana as overseas markets begin to open.

I agree that at some point in the coming week - or at best weeks - as the full impact of a Greek default comes home to investors, the dams could break. (My only concern was that ZH may have overstated the likelihood of immediate intervention as a result of the G7 meeting.)


reply to post by Rockpuck

My question to the peoples of this thread isn't if when or how the economy will collapse, it's why avoid it in the first place? I simply cannot fathom what they (Government and the ultra wealthy) stand to gain by pushing out the inevitable collapse of the Western financial structure. Even if we assume there is a scheme involved and someone somewhere has the master plan, I still cannot see what would make a latter collapse better than an instantaneous collapse.

I think the more frightening conclusion is that "they" actually DON'T want the system to collapse, there isn't a master plan, and no one has any idea what's happening to the economy. That they truly thought back-stop guarantees, loans, bailouts, and negative interest rates would save the economy...

Presumably (at least most) heads of government are indeed genuinely attempting to fix the leaks. But does anyone who knows anything about Bilderberg really believe the inevitability of a full-scale collapse has not been forseen? Many believe the outcome has been discussed for decades, never mind years. The answer is devastatingly obvious: when the old is destroyed, the new must replace it.

Is anyone in any doubt the eventual solution would be globally-based, as opposed to nation-based?


reply to post by Shenon

Are they delaying it until all Pieces are in Place?.. The first one (waiting for all Pieces to be in Place) is my favoured,and most likely one. But you have to ask yourself,if they didn´t already lose Control of their own Scenario...

Only those who are fully aware of the outcome would be involved in such 'deliberate delays'. For many it could be a mix of sincere concern for their economies and other objectives. Those who see total political unification in Europe as the highest (eventual) goal could well be hoping that something like a two-tier Europe could form a stronger basis for their ends than the current entity, with other nations expected to get their houses in order before rejoining the club. Sarkozy would fit the bill, for example.

Those who are actually planning for an eventual global financial system are in no hurry. Delays are not their concern. The outcome is.


reply to post by DangerDeath

Nobody is in control. They only pretend... In 6.000 years of history, there never was a successful government.

Perhaps that's why the movers & shakers behind Bilderberg believe they can enforce a new paradigm.

This is not new paradigm.
Their idea of ACTION is exactly to let everything go to hell and they seek refuge in Noah's Ark. This never changes.
If we look at history, all those dictators very rarely survive the crap they stood for.

Feudalism never left their minds. This can easily be observed in how big companies, corporations and states behave. In Roman times there were "clients", in feudalism there was "vassalage". The law and rights were all about protecting hierarchical monkeys.
Remember Athens Alliance
en.wikipedia.org...

Pericles wanted to stabilize Athens' dominance over its alliance and to enforce its pre-eminence in Greece. The process by which the Delian League transformed into an Athenian empire is generally considered to have begun well before Pericles' time,[52] as various allies in the league chose to pay tribute to Athens instead of manning ships for the league's fleet, but the transformation was speeded and brought to its conclusion by measures implemented by Pericles.[53] The final steps in the shift to empire may have been triggered by Athens' defeat in Egypt

What they have done in our times, is that there is several "alliances" compensating each other. UN, NATO, IMF, WTF, etc.

They are switching from one to another, buying time (life). Time is life, not money

Personally, I think the biggest trump they have is China. It will be a "surprise" to realize that capitalism actually has Chinese face
When this comes to public minds, the "new paradigm" will be fully effective, and that is - the living standard of the Chinese will be accepted as the living standard of all. This is where the world is going right now. Place your bets while there still is time (life)


And to add, a typical "political factory", from Great Pyramids of Egypt to whatnot of today (9/11 perhaps)

It was from the alliance's treasury that Pericles drew the funds necessary to enable his ambitious building plan, centered on the "Periclean Acropolis", which included the Propylaea, the Parthenon and the golden statue of Athena, sculpted by Pericles' friend, Phidias.[58] In 449 BC Pericles proposed a decree allowing the use of 9,000 talents to finance the major rebuilding program of Athenian temples.[45] Angelos Vlachos, a Greek Academician, points out that the utilization of the alliance's treasury, initiated and executed by Pericles, is one of the largest embezzlements in human history; this misappropriation financed, however, some of the most marvellous artistic creations of the ancient world.[59]

Ok, did Greece is going to take the bailout or not, I mean the death line is going to be on the 14 this month, but 11 billions that has been offered along with the demands is nothing but a bandaid, as Greece debt is over 600 billions dollars.

So the banks are offering just enough for them to keep making payments no to get them out of debt .

I don't get it.

reply to post by marg6043


well you answerd your own question.The best thing for greece is to go bankrupt ( and when i say for greece i mean the working class like you and me)By accepting this monney they will just need to work harder and longer to pay back the debt,Europe has failed, everyone knew this was gonna fail;

America's economy is failing,so is europe's,its but a step away to a one world economy and currency

reply to post by Cyanhide


I guess they will wait until the last day been the 14, funny that is been so much speculation on what is going to happen that you can not find the truth.

I agree that Greece should get off the EU and work their problems on their own.

I guess something most be going on when on Friday after the Government in Greece announced that they were no defaulting, Germany started to work on Plan B, meaning how to minimized loses after Greece default, so is something going on, but as usual information coming from Germany and Greece is by unnamed sources.

The solution for Greece's problem is in America. As America is moving it's debt limit up, so will Greece.
This is absolutely normal for the system based on the principle of capturing everyone and everything into debt.
The only problem is the fact that debtors are caught in their own cobweb
They'll probably pour more bombs on poor Asians, out of shear frustration...

Originally posted by DangerDeath
The solution for Greece's problem is in America. As America is moving it's debt limit up, so will Greece.
This is absolutely normal for the system based on the principle of capturing everyone and everything into debt.
The only problem is the fact that debtors are caught in their own cobweb

They'll probably pour more bombs on poor Asians, out of shear frustration...

The Greeks would be well advised to heed the experience of the people of Iceland and follow their lead or the international banksters are going to steal their country out from under them (under the guise of a "bailout" of course).

America is not far behind Greece if the fraud psystematically being perpetrated by the IMF is not ucovered and their cohorts, corrupt politicians, are not driven out.

the Nikkei is down 0.63 and the Australian all ords are down 2.7
www.news.com.au...
Today looks likely to be a blood barth. Hoping we all have to swith over to gold as currency
again. Austalia is good at mining. just kidding

Maybe a multi tier system would work better in the euro zone, so
one countrie/ sector could be isolated in times like this.
Australia has a multi-speed ecconomy to perhaps it could work here too


Quick look at gold, another plunge in gold prices then a rally
What is making these gold price plunges
is it a volitile market in panic mode or is it someone getting
rid of vast quantities of gold to increase their liquid assets.
talk of a gold bubble may be the reason people are
getting out in a hurry when they start to see a drop which
would feed on it's self. don't know but i tell you what someone is
making a killing out of these drops.

reply to post by DangerDeath


Well, is no "Really" known for sure how much is the US up to the neck on the Greece mess, but one thing we can count on if Greece default US is going to find out how much of retirement accounts are going to be in precarious situation, it seems that the word Derivatives comes to mind.

reply to post by wondera


If the markets sucks tomorrow, you bet that the pressure will be on Greece to take the bailout, just like the way the markets played with the US tax payer to scare them enough to have the government stealing tax payer to bailout the banks.

Is going to be interesting tomorrow, but if the US markets and the EU stay steady, I think Greece will default.

reply to post by marg6043

The markets HAVE to suck tomorrow... and ALL WEEK... because otherwise Chairsatan won't have the political capital (even if he shouldn't care about that in any decision) to do QE3 on September 20.

And from what I have seen, the SP500 should be at 600-700 now, not 1200.

Well,European Markets open in 20 Minutes...should be fun to Watch..."Let the End Begin"

Whoa,just looked around a little bit,and here on the German wallstreet-online ,the DAX is already down 6,83% in early trading Oh,this is gonna suck big Time today...

It seems that 9/11 anniversary really was a mark for markets to go down!
It is a political factory and it is used as a display.

Even when ostrich is down, its legs are still running. This automatism was meant to keep the illusion going.
Since 2008, markets seem to reflect the price of gold - that's why the numbers are twice + those in October 2008. Markets did not grow. In best case, markets are stagnating. But its over now.

Politicians pretend they want to go back in time, when everything was much better and nicer, people fall for that projection. Or they don't - nobody really cares. Consumer's mind is a mind of an addict. We all know what an addict is capable of doing. Hallucination and damage.

An example of mass hallucination:

www.cnn.com...

Reports of air passengers acting suspiciously on two flights prompted authorities Sunday to scramble fighter jets on the 10th anniversary of 9/11.

One passenger stayed 20 minutes in toilet. Another waited 20 minutes before entering toilet...

Living a hallucination:

A heavy security presence permeated lower Manhattan on Sunday, the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, as authorities continued their search for possible plotters of another terrorist strike.

www.cnn.com...

Information considered credible but unconfirmed

Credible but unconfirmed!

This really sounds scary

In the meantime, markets look like this:

nikkei -2.30%
hang seng -4.00%
sp asx -3.50%
ftse 100 -2.35%
cac 40 -3.60
dax -4.00%

euro 1.35

dow jones indices in red


After G7 meeting, we have Germany hoping for Greek default. French banks are going down because of that. Both French and German banks are involved in creating Greek situation. I think it was all planned. It is not possible they didn't know it would come to this.

Funny how even CNBC is now publishing articles saying that DOW 3000 is possible...

Dow Could Crash to 3,000 in 2013: Author

The recent gyrations in global stock markets are just the beginning, says U.S.-based economist and author Harry Dent, who believes the Dow will fall below 10,000 in the near term before crashing to around 3,000 in 2013.

Has CNBC finally lost their ever lasting bullish (more like bull#) sentiment for the DOW?

reply to post by Vitchilo

Okay, I don't know which is worse here. The fact NBC is running a doomsday story like this or the fact the article would seem to be contradictory at the same time. On one hand they describe a true doomsday scenario for those "rich people" who also happen to actually hire people in the world....by saying the DOW may crash to 3000. Then toward the end, they suggest staying OUT of Gold and Silver to invest more heavily in Dollars. Wow..... Did someone not take their medication before writing that NBC story today? I've heard of hedging a story, but this is just plain ADD on their part.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well they got to keep everyone out of gold and silver, doesn't matter if it contradicts the story!

And if the DOW really goes to 3000, things will go feral and it won't matter if you got gold and silver. Better have lead and food.

Update : it's all good, Greece 1 year bond just passed 106%!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

Okay, I don't know which is worse here. The fact NBC is running a doomsday story like this or the fact the article would seem to be contradictory at the same time. On one hand they describe a true doomsday scenario for those "rich people" who also happen to actually hire people in the world....by saying the DOW may crash to 3000. Then toward the end, they suggest staying OUT of Gold and Silver to invest more heavily in Dollars. Wow..... Did someone not take their medication before writing that NBC story today? I've heard of hedging a story, but this is just plain ADD on their part.

They are trying to hide the obvious by making it obvious, only can't avoid the ugliness. If they sell gold persistently, dollar will get stronger (already is FX 77.35). Market numbers are tied to gold. If gold goes down market numbers will go down. Not necessarily the market itself. This would be more about recalibration.

So they have decided that dollar stays the global currency...

This would hopefully reverse the inflation that has already accelerated.

Another question is whether they have enough strength to do this, after all the sexing up

Since industry has been outsourced elsewhere, what can America have in its sleeve? Some new, revolutionary technology?

Replicators?
Or, simply, the might of its weapons?

reply to post by DangerDeath


So here's something I'm confused about. If the Dow goes down to 3000, wouldn't that signal deflation instead of inflation, meaning that gold & silver would probably follow it down? In that case, it would probably not be a good idea to hold gold & silver.