The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by Rockpuck


A patch work approach with one currency, where bad planning and fiscal responsibility has been ignored.
A level of unification would have to be an advantage, but how you manage that at the moment is beyond me.
nobody wants to willingly take on that mutch debt that they had no hand in making.
as for the US fedral systems can work, but you need to have some sort of consensis with those running
the system, if their is no willingness to negciate in the intrest of the country then the system will
struggle. cheap ploitical wrangalin is the greatest flaw in modern democracises, US, Australia, UK and many
others are afflicted with this cancer.

reply to post by wondera


I'd counter that the greatest flaw of Democracy in the West is Democracy. A Federalist system works best for the System and nothing more.. Governments are animals that only look for themselves, even if it means the suffering and destruction of her own people. Their instinct is natural preservation of power.

Europe could be a massive military and economic power if consolidated.. but you have to destroy culture for Federalism to work there.. they have history. Federalism works in the USA because we have no history.. many states and cities have hardly 150 years of history. This is why the Euro is not working, there is to much cultural differences, to many histories, to many identities. The EU Gov is trying all they can to destroy it.. they import Arabs and Africans and South Americans .. when European nations lose their identity a Federalist system will work. But they destroyed their economy doing it (much as the USA has).. because Keynesian economics dictates there MUST be perpetual growth.

"Perpetual growth" also means growth of population. In Europe, it is now possible only if they import people from elsewhere. Tendency is to grow old with 1-2 children, which also means a different kind of products, more reliable and durable, perfectionist economy. In reality, Chinese cheap stuff is introduced, standard has been reduced drastically and the European ethnic picture is rapidly changing (degrading).

This is all because the concept of "working to earn living" must be preserved and the situation is becoming dangerously ambivalent.

The result is - Europe and Europeans must be degraded from what they have briefly accomplished: high standard and solid products, solid projection of present and future. It is now destroyed.

Ask Greeks, as most drastic example, how that worked for them.

We are all victims of this economic system.
But the system is bigger than us.

reply to post by DangerDeath


Indeed, well put .. who needs the perpetual growth though? Corporations and shareholders .. we, the people, only need a stable system to live our lives happily. We don't need mass expansion endlessly and record corporate profits..

We, the people, us little guys, are not benefiting. They destroy our cultures, our ways of life, our savings, our worth, our sense of security, and everything we built.

reply to post by Rockpuck


You said it, RP!

BTW, what do folks think of the US President's plan (announced yesterday) to invest massively in infrastructure, schools, etc.? Rather positive it seems to me: the right direction, surely. Just far too late.

(When a guy who has maxed out every conceivable credit card talks about investing, you can be forgiven for giving him a funny look.)

reply to post by pause4thought


Is it any different than the last time we spent hundreds of billions building roads?

No.

It's a political farce. And considering how much money it takes to create just one part time job, the amount reduced in the rest of the budget will most likely result in job losses in the over all plan.

reply to post by Rockpuck


There was definitely an element of showbizz about it. At least it had a glimmer of long-termism about it.

But whether it will even get passed - never mind implemented - is another question.

You've got to give the guy credit, though. He is a good performer. In a Tony Blair kind of way.

Isn't it typical, yet it goes "unnoticed", The System is producing barbarians through all history of mankind.
And it is always some "mysterious" place they come from! From the steppe, from the Carpathians, from Baltic swamps, Gobi desert and Mongolia, Caucasus mountains, Arabian desert, Sinkiang, Roman catacombs...

Barbarians (cheap labor, low standard, lots of undernourished children) are coming from all sides! How come?
Some people must have been (intentionally?) neglected.

But don't worry, this time The Healthcare will take care of that

Like it did in Somalia...

For decades the UN has been organizing and "feeding" the hungry, yet situation has never been more drastic.
In reality, they have been producing sweat-shop semi-humans, girls and boys "white" slaves, and... this gets really ugly ... consumers of those.

Immanent cannibalism?

The System periodically rots. This is natural moment - it spreads too much, and in a fashion of fractal, in all directions. The time is come for the whole building to be replaced. Now, The System will unleash the "termites", simulate "revolution", while the "most important and evolved" beasts will embark on to some safe places.

The Flood...

Barbarians "flooded" Rome. It really is a trick of perception, no?

reply to post by DangerDeath

Immanent cannibalism?

I hear the G7 is currently at dinner.

(You can draw your own conclusions.)


But your point is well made. When people say things could get ugly - they really have no idea. And little do they suspect how much human misery is the result of deliberate exploitation.

...Which brings us back to the markets:


DJIA: 11013.29 down 282.52 -2.50%

(Small rally taking place just before close.)

Source

Originally posted by Shenon
reply to post by eagleeye2

 

With the SNB intervening and buying Euros en masse to devalue their own Currency,the War already started. After this Currency War comes Trade Wars...and the rest is History,literaly.

reply to post by Vitchilo

 

Thats why i posted this Picture. Greece will default in the next Weeks,if not Days. I´m pretty sure of that...

I just have to quote myself,called it yesterday Sorry,need some Love too...

And now to recap what happened when i was asleep...which is alot. Yay,the World is going down faster and faster

Markets tumble after ECB's Jurgen Stark resigns

World stock markets tumbled after the shock resignation of Jurgen Stark, a key member of the European Central Bank (ECB), provided an unwelcome backdrop to the crucial G7 meeting in Marseilles.

The FTSE 100 closed down 2.35pc, the Dax in Frankfurt fell 4.04pc, and the CAC in Paris was down 3.6pc following the news that Mr Stark, the top German official at the ECB, was leaving due to "personal reasons".

Sources said his departure reflected a deep rift at the heart of the ECB, with Mr Stark opposed to the bank's policy of buying eurozone bonds to support highly indebted countries like Italy and Spain. Mr Stark was considered to be a hawk at the bank, favouring looser monetary policy including higher interest rates.

The news came amid clear divisions in the G7 ahead of the two-day meeting, which began on Friday.

...Christine Lagarde, the head of the International Monetary Fund, said that policymakers in advanced economies should use all available tools to boost growth as the world economy entered a "dangerous new phase".

Source

They can't even hide it now.

www.bloomberg.com...

Credit-default swaps signaled a more than 90 percent probability Greece will default.

Safest bet in town is to hedge that Greece is going to explode .. probably this fall/winter. I wonder how big the derivative market is around Greece, given the massive insurance sales revolving around anything Greek at the moment. Some banks stand to make a massive fortune if she fails .. some others will collapse instantly.

Still ..... from an investment standpoint, it is very enticing to throw some money into Greek bonds .. just for the slim possibility of Greece being alive in a year. 1 year notes today are at 98% .. insanity. If Greece had it's own reserve bank it would be Zimbabwe all over again.

Rumor Files

Sal Catrini to FBN yesterday: Credible sources > global currency intervention this weekend out of the G7 conference (global monetary stimulus). - Video Link @ the 0.32 sec mark.

GL

Piggy backing my previous post.

Morgan Stanley yesterday: There's A Chance of Major Coordinated G7 Intervention As Soon As This Weekend

ZeroHedge this evening:

Here Comes The Non-Boring Weekend: G7 Says "Central Banks Ready To Provide Liquidity As Required"

The G-7 is in full panic mode. The organization for the prevention of harm to the Status Quo was expected to release a communique possibly over the weekend, but the speed with which one was dropped for mass circulation is stunning and confirms that its members are in full meltdown as the weekend comes. It is now certain that the G-7 will attempt some major intervention over the next 48 hours to inject a last dose of hope into capital markets, or else the Monday open will be an epic collapse. - Continues[/ex ]

Got ?

edit on 9-9-2011 by OBE1 because: (no reason given)

Global stimulus package....rumor and more rumors, if you saw a global stimulas package,
It would be the clearest sign that the ...... has hit the fan, and run as fast as you can form
the market. It wont happern, but if it did it would be the ultimate case of throwing good money after bad
If things realy start to fall dramatically watch for chines investement firms to be buying up
great swaths of recsource companies, scoop the pool. it would give them ultimate market
dominace if the markets recover.

reply to post by OBE1 & wondera


It turns out there'll be no global currency intervention / global stimulus package. It looks more like a 'folded hands' policy. But no need to worry as it's a concerted action...


G7 agree to act together on economy but offer no action

Group of Seven finance ministers agreed on Friday to respond in concert to a slowdown in the global economy but produced no concrete action to calm markets spooked by signs of faltering growth and Europe's debt crisis.

"We met at a time of new challenges to ... growth, fiscal deficits and sovereign debt ... There are now clear signs of a slowdown in global growth. We are committed to a strong and coordinated response to these challenges," a communique said after hours of talks between G7 finance ministers and central bankers.

"We reaffirmed our shared interest in a strong and stable international financial system and our support for market determined exchange rates," it said. "We will consult closely in regard to actions in exchange markets and would cooperate as appropriate."

A German government source said talks dragged on late into the evening because France wanted a joint communiqué but others in the meeting felt there was not enough common ground to merit one.
Ministers and central bankers were under pressure to calm the biggest confidence crisis in financial markets since the 2007-8 global credit crunch...

I hate to say it, but it looks to me like zerohedge jumped the gun this time. It sounds more like shrugged shoulders than panic mode. I'm all against throwing good money after bad, but lack of agreement and clear prevarication are hardly going to instil confidence into the markets!

And by ``global intervention`` they mean ``destroy the purchasing power of what's left of the middle-class and rob taxpayers money``.

Screw the G7. All those there are scum. Merkel, Sarkozy, Cameron, Obama, Harper, Noda and Berlusconi. All scumbags. If they all died of a heart attack, the world would be a better place.

An interesting article from KD on Greece :
It's Over

Seriously.

There is persistent chatter about a Greek default over the weekend, which Greece denied, but the denier refused to be named. If it's not true, then put your damned name on the statement or be considered what you are - liars. Greece failed to place their short-term bill rollover. That's a declaration by the market that even for short-term paper the market has utterly lost confidence in Greece and the Euro.

Germany's DAX market relative to the United States just hit a five year low today.

To add to the "liar liar pants on fire" calls Germany is now reported to be working a plan to recapitalize their banks if Greece defaults. This in turn means three things:

* A Greek default is considered credible by Germany and they are taking official actions related to that possibility. So much for the denials.

* German banks (and presumably French banks and all the other big banks too) are insolvent as they are carrying these bonds at well above their actual value in the marketplace. If the bonds were carried at the claimed "loss" values, which is quoted as 50%, then there would be no need to recapitalize them would there? This is an official statement of proof that the banks are lying about asset values and are in fact insolvent.

* Remember that we were just told days ago that these banks were fine and needed no capital and in fact calls for more capital by the IMF were officially refused. The same claim has been made about our banks. You were just told officially by Germany that their claim of adequate capital just days ago was a lie as they are now planning to recapitalize the banks. Do you believe our banks are not similarly exposed and also insolvent? YOU'RE BETTING YOUR FUTURE ON THE BELIEF THAT THEY ARE, SO THIS QUESTION IS QUITE GERMANE AND TIMELY: ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE NOT BEING LIED TO EXACTLY AS WE WERE ABOUT GERMAN BANKS?

Coincident with this hitting the wires there was a massive flow of money into the Japanese Yen - and out of the Euro. A monstrous safety trade - people fleeing the European common currency for what they perceive as a "safe haven." At the same time our markets are down 300 DOW points, the S&P is down 2.5% on the day and more than forty points off the early-morning top -- and there's no sign that things are stabilizing at all.

I said the Euro was going to par, and that might be too conservative. With that our stock market will get cut in half -- or more -- from here and once again the banks, insurance companies and everyone else will start crying poor mouth.

The problem is that this time there's no money to bail them out with in the US and as a result if this outcome manifests they will fail. The embedded losses in those institutions on mortgages alone total trillions, which is several times the available debt ceiling and so far beyond the FDIC's reserves that there is no way to cover you, the average person.

Uh oh?
Moody's Downgrade Of French Banks Imminent, Risk Waterfall To Follow?

Alas, for France, which is very sensitive to any inkling it may have a less than sterling rating (due to its sovereign AAA requirement without which the EFSF/ESM falls apart), the luck may have run out. Bloomberg reports that the abovementioned banks "may have their credit ratings cut by Moody’s Investors Service as soon as next week because of their Greek holdings, two people with knowledge of the matter said.

IF they do downgrade the French banks over their holdings of Greek debt, they should downgrade Swiss banks too.

The only ``upside`` to this will be the end of the scam. No EFSF. Or they will pin ALL the debt on Germany. And if they do get to do this, when it all collapses, Germany will have the worst depression in history.

That happens, the collapse is staged and wanted by the elite. Moodys are controlled. They wouldn't do this if they weren't given the order. Warren Buffet controls Moodys. Maybe Buffet is pissed about his BAC money blowing up and he wants to take down Europe so money flows in the US....

My bunker :

reply to post by Vitchilo


Might I suggest a camo paint job for your bunker?

I do have the feeling that we are finally reaching a place where they will either lose control or take control absolutely. I would prefer the former since I would rather face just about anything other than enslavement.

reply to post by pause4thought

No doubt, T. Durdan & Company have a penchant for the dramatic, but with a potential debt downgrade sure to add additional stress to the EU financial system, lets see what happens mañana as overseas markets begin to open.

I assume ZH was reacting to this statement from the official G7 communique: Central Banks stand ready to provide liquidity to banks as required. We will take all necessary actions to ensure the resilience of banking systems and financial markets.

Underpinned by Lagardes' earlier comment regarding "unconventional measures".

World Entering 'Dangerous New Phase': Lagarde
Published: Friday, 9 Sep 2011

Christine Lagarde, the managing director of the International Monetary Fund, warned that the global economy is entering a "dangerous new phase" on Friday, ahead of the G7 summit in Marseilles, France.

She warned that both advanced and emerging economies faced key economic challenges, and that governments must "act now" to stop further contagion.

"Policymakers should stand ready, as needed, to take more action to support the recovery, including through unconventional measures," Lagarde said. - Full Text

The US Fed holds the patent on unconventional measures, and as we know from 2008, our monetary authorities aren't shy about implementing them as emergency stop-gaps, regardless of the negative repercussions for the taxpaying public, and their ultimate failure to achieve longer-term policy objectives.

GL

reply to post by OBE1


We all knew that they were doing nothing but kicking the can down the road. There is no cure all solution to the many different problems plaguing the economies of the World .. eventually, at some point, it will come to a head and will explode with frightening force.

My question to the peoples of this thread isn't if when or how the economy will collapse, it's why avoid it in the first place? I simply cannot fathom what they (Government and the ultra wealthy) stand to gain by pushing out the inevitable collapse of the Western financial structure. Even if we assume there is a scheme involved and someone somewhere has the master plan, I still cannot see what would make a latter collapse better than an instantaneous collapse.

I think the more frightening conclusion is that "they" actually DON'T want the system to collapse, there isn't a master plan, and no one has any idea what's happening to the economy. That they truly thought back-stop guarantees, loans, bailouts, and negative interest rates would save the economy. Of course depending on your own personal views, this scenario is, imo, far more frightening because it gives us nothing to base the outcome off presumptions of their goals. Outcomes from this scenario are completely dependent on spontaneous human nature .. which is the most frightening aspect of all. I'd take control demolition over a spontaneous act of nature to blow our house of cards down. Perhaps that's why they kick the can down the road, they are looking for an out, a way to take the system offline without throwing the entire World into complete chaos.

The wine makes me ramble......