The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by getreadyalready


YTD the indicies are on average still up 2-3% The market has simply corrected its self in the face of low economic growth. Corporate profits are still strong, so there is no reason for the markets to dip that low (imo?) except on the outlook of no economic growth. But regardless, even with no economic growth, corporate profits are still high.

The volatility is very concerning though. I have friends who are panicking because their retirement accounts have dropped -25% in two weeks..

If people get freaked out, and they start pulling money from the markets like in 08-09 there will be serious ramifications in the markets.

reply to post by pause4thought


Yes, if we got back in this thread we find those posts that were talking about who the shadow investors putting overnight money in the markets were, I think it was big companies and wealthy investors trying to keep their own investments from failing, many got their money back thanks to the bailouts.

For some reason this is just like a repeat, but I could be mistaken, we all know that our markets are nothing but a manufacture sense of wealth supported by manipulated interest rates, it took trillions of fake money to make the nation look like back in order after the last crash.

But sadly it was all artificial, we never recovered from that crash and it just been carried over to the next and been linked to a global market everything will come down like a domino effect.

Let see how much more money is under the sleeves of those that will have the most to lose and let see how long they will keep injecting the markets before government intervention.

Then we can say is just like an old record playing, over and over again until is nothing left to hear.

The bailouts did their job, the wealthiest kept their wealth the poor and working class got the short end of the deal, how much more can we take before taking to the streets.

Things are going to be very unpredictable in this nation when it comes to public satisfaction.

But then again elections year is coming and perhaps this is all "strategy" after all we the voters and tax payers are nothing but been played by those that are in power.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Like I say in my previous post, I think that so call "economic growth" is fake, our government has a history is lying to the public with manufactured numbers.

The so call profits are been kept while the unemployment keeps raising because to keep profits companies are not hiring.

Still unemployment numbers in this nation are not to be trusted when it comes to the government as they are doing anything they can to manufacture and sugar coat them.

reply to post by Rockpuck


You might be right. There seems to be HUGE rally to end the day!

I agree with Marg though, I think this is all manipulation and the true 'correction' will be much larger and sustained.

Of course, it won't need to correct if inflation catches up with the bubble. Instead of the market coming down, the price of goods could just go up and the dollar could be worth---less. Or more appropriately.....worthless!

reply to post by marg6043


Oh absolutely .. as an economist I'd say that the US is in a depression and seeing at least .5-1% negative growth year over year of real GDP.

As an investor I say it doesn't matter what the GDP or unemployment is.. inflation is keeping corporate profits very respectable. It's weird, considering the real state of the economy, but the corporate World is carrying on like nothing has, is, or will happen. The only threat to corporate profits and thus the markets from completely collapsing, is the end of government funding to keep the corporate profits up. The market is after all just the Corporate side of the economy.. I believe with the end of stimulus and the end of QE we may see profits drop which will signal the begining of the next stage of the depression ..

Once again, it ultimately comes down to Christmas, the most pivital time in our economy. Record unemployment, poor wage growth, huge economic uncertainty going into the fall .. if Christmas is Red this year the bottom falls out in Q1 .. is it's green then the Gov did a good job at propping the economy up for another year. But the record inflation from QE2 is certain to guarentee a Green Christmas imo.. keeping corporate profits at a pace of positive growth.

reply to post by getreadyalready


That is one part of the whole picture we have not seen yet, the inflation, why? because keeping interest low keep inflation at bay.

With all the liquid assets that were put out to the big too fail with the bailouts, none of that money has reached the streets yet, that helps keep inflation also at bay.

The big to fail knew that something else was coming soon enough that is why they have kept the liquid assets to themselves.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I'm not saying the market is reflecting the economy though.. I always say the markets reflect the markets, and is detached from the Real Economy. But it's nearly impossible to have high inflation and negative stock appreciation .. if the indicies decline significantly then it lowers P/E ratio since corproate profits will continue to increase through inflation alone. Even if companies produce less, sell less, their revenue will be higher as the Dollar depreciates. It also increases liquidity and thus buying power in the markets which would artificially inflate prices anyways.

I'm one of those people freaking out about the state of my 401k...but pulling it out now would be disastrous for me (and if enough people did it, disastrous for the market).** It's something I've determined to see through for the long haul. I appreciate everyone on this thread and their comments, I can't bug my financial guy at Edward Jones every five minutes...but I can keep up with ATS!


**HOWEVER, I'm stinkin' GLAD I closed my 94-year-old father's investment account before the recent plunge. He'd have HALF his money left, with no time to recoup...and since I'm living in his house and writing a check for $2,000 every month for his assisted living, I'd be looking at homelessness very soon!

reply to post by Jansy


You are right, for those that have no time to wait for a market recoup will be the ones to suffer the most with the volatility right now.

We still have about 15 more years left to retire and we took a big hit the last time the market crash, and with another crash and more years of volatility things are not looking very good for us either.

But while we have hope, hope doesn't put food on a table.

Sorry you are having such a bad day this days. Do like us, we just keep looking ahead and never back and as long as is a job available we are still keeping our standards of living, but I got the feeling that by the time my husband is of age of retirement that will be push from 65 to 70, as this is been on the table for quite some time already in congress.

reply to post by marg6043


I always told my clients that around 8-6 years before you retire to gradually move 75% of your investments into fixed rate vehicles. And, if at all possible.... pay off your house. Or downgrade into something smaller and try and have it paid off. The vast majority of retired people who "loose everything" loose it by being foreclosed on.

reply to post by Rockpuck


That's great advice!

Actually, they say to begin your retirement contributions with a goal in mind, perhaps even more conservative advice would be to transition to fixed rate once your original goal is firmly within grasp. Don't even wait until those last years.

reply to post by Rockpuck


The only thing we got right now that is keeping us living in a comfortable way is my husband job, he does have a great pay job, been employed by one of the top US defense contractors will ensure a steady job as long as is a war somewhere.

And as for bills we don't have many as our children are already adults, things will only get worst if the markets and the government keeps messing around with the economy, I have no trust on our nations government.

We never know what can happen in the next 15 years.

reply to post by getreadyalready


True! ... But from my experience most people don't start saving until they are in their late 30's, and truly in earnest until they are in their late 40's and early 50's. In short.... few people actually reach their goals. And what's even sadder is those who have saved all their life and had it cut into 3rds by the economic collapse. In the end, for the average person it's sadly just about making the last 20-30 years of your life as comfortable as possible. You might not get that yacht you wanted or the beachfront condo in Florida, but at least you'll have a home your grandkids can visit.

That rally was quite ridiculous.

It doesn't really matter, the bond market is showing that stocks have to fall 30% ... so today was just ONE DAY... one day doesn't make a trend.

Bernanke announced deflation and the market rallies.... yeah alright.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Is "dejavu" all over again before the big crash three years ago, ups and downs until it was not more infusions to keep the markets going, then the bailouts, that were nothing but bandaids.

reply to post by marg6043


And once again it's Financials leading the way..

Perhaps we should just get rid of the financial markets all together, ban banking and all forms of usury? I say yes!

reply to post by Rockpuck


It is just incredible that once again the fault will rest with the too big to fail, I guess we didn't learn our lesson 3 years ago.

France is going out of their way to tell the world that they are no losing their rating, because their banks are getting a run off.



I wonder when the announcement that we will have to do more bailouts will come.

Where is the bottom
I see no bottom
Bottom is where
I see no bottom


And now DOW is -505, -4,50%.


Given the hints in today's headlines, second thoughts: S&P next downgrade France? Riots in Paris? I remember Sarkozy when he was police chief during last riots, some ignorant peasant him. How is he going to lead?

-523, -4,56%

Leaders have no idea what is going on. All they hear is voices around their heads and it's a buzz.

Banking has screwed everything, gone into fractaling Ponzi tunnel vision. This has to be straightened up and cut short. Guillotine.

Too many projects. Too many projections.

jeezus i don't think market can wait till aug 26 when bernanke will give qe 3 the green light.

i have been positioned for this for a while....lol i thought it would occur when qe 2 expired or heck even leading up to it.

the market is spooked. and that is not a good thing.

who will help with bailouts this time is the question? China saved the day in 2008 (or played a large role) can they afford to doubledown on stimulus....history shows country's that expanded credit 35% like they did (response to 2008 crisis) usually have bubbles burst or close....so really no they can't.

Fed can QE but will that be enough.....and can they keep the qe money from going into commoditys LOL

reply to post by cpdaman

the market is spooked

What a glorious understatement!

I'd say Marg has just about summed it all up.


Volatility in London:


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4969.63 down 37.53 -0.75%

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FTSE (month to view):


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