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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 07:56 AM
I've done a few maths and since early June, the US dollar has fallen about 9-10% and the DOW has risen by about 8-9%...

It should rally today again so it balances even more.

Coincidence? I THINK NOT.

David Rosenberg: You Know You Are In A Depression When…

When you live in America and had a good paying job of course!

Marc Faber: Relax, This Will Hurt A Lot

“We’ve had a trend for most of the past 200 years: GDP of countries like China and India went down while the West surged. That’s now changed. Emerging economies will go up, and your children in the West will have a lower standard of living than you did. Absolutely. We won’t sink to the bottom of the sea. But other countries will grow much faster than us. The world is very competitive, and the odds are stacked against us. Americans, with their inborn arrogance, will not let it go that easily, so there will be lots of tension going forward.”


Basel committee agrees new bank capital rules
Yeah... IN NINE YEARS... because it if were to be applied NOW, about 90% if not all of the big banks would go bankrupt or multi TRILLION bailouts would be necessary...

Well let's hope the banks are still not bankrupt and we are out of this depression IN NINE YEARS otherwise we'll really be screwed then...

The year America dissolved
Interesting and post-economic collapse scenario by Paul Craig Roberts.

BTW, they tried to do a ``reform`` here, and by reform, they mean cutting pensions and raising the retirement age by 5 years. So far it didn't pass...

But according to my aunt working in the ``pension`` ministry, they gonna try it again before the year is out... that pisses her off since because of that she would have to work 5 years more... she's supposed to take her retirement early next year... if it passes this year, she is screwed.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Vitchilo]

posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 09:08 AM
A great little article here I thought from The Telegraph newspaper/"The Death of Paper Money" By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Published: 7:05PM BST 25 Jul 2010

I'd recommend reading the whole article.

Ebay is offering a well-thumbed volume of "Dying of Money: Lessons of the Great German and American Inflations" at a starting bid of $699 (shipping free.. thanks a lot). The crucial passage comes in Chapter 17 entitled "Velocity". Each big inflation -- whether the early 1920s in Germany, or the Korean and Vietnam wars in the US -- starts with a passive expansion of the quantity money. This sits inert for a surprisingly long time. Asset prices may go up, but latent price inflation is disguised. The effect is much like lighter fuel on a camp fire before the match is struck.

The article goes on to look, with some very vivid accounts, some of the human experiences in the Weimar republic, before concluding:

This is not a picture of America, or Britain, or Europe in 2010. But we should be careful of embracing the opposite and overly-reassuring assumption that this is a mild replay of Japan’s Lost Decade, that is to say a slow and largely benign slide into deflation as debt deleveraging exerts its discipline.

Japan was the world’s biggest external creditor when the Nikkei bubble burst twenty years ago. It had a private savings rate of 15pc of GDP. The Japanese people have gradually cut this rate to 2pc, cushioning the effects of the long slump. The Anglo-Saxons have no such cushion.

There is a clear temptation for the West to extricate itself from the errors of the Greenspan asset bubble, the Brown credit bubble, and the EMU sovereign bubble by stealth default through inflation. But that is a danger for later years. First we have the deflation shock of lives. Then -- and only then -- will central banks go to far and risk losing control over their printing experiment as velocity takes off. One problem at a time please.

posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 03:20 PM
Hey Vitchilo What do is your opinion on the unemployment rates from eupore?
and wouldn't you mind posting those real numbers of the unemployment rates from eupore please? i need them for something thanks.

posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 10:17 PM
I don't know what the real unemployment numbers in Europe are, but I doubt it's as bad as the US in terms of differences because of government welfare to unemployed people in Europe is way more present.

The last number we have is 10.1% from APRIL... in reality it's probably at 16-17%... I really don't know.

Local Governments To Cut 500,000 People In 2010 And 2011, As $400 Billion Budget Shortfall Brings State Economies To A Halt
In little trouble are we?

400 billion $ in the hole... just for states... that's HUGE... IMO.

Consumer Confidence Drops 10%...
OOoops... Goebbels... I meant Bernanke/Geithner/Obama/Gibbs propaganda doesn't work anymore?

The US has finally fallen. Today was the day.
MTV's 'Jersey Shore' cast rings opening bell on N.Y. Stock Exchange
I mean when you see this crap, you know that's it's over. I mean REALLY OVER.

Credit card fees transfer wealth to rich, study finds
Gee ya think?

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Vitchilo]

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 09:34 AM
Europe in big troubles again.

European Funding Worst In A Year

EUR Libor at 0.83063%, Euribor at almost 0.9%, and top tier European Commercial Paper are now at their worst levels since about a year ago. The stress test came and went, and the market couldn't care less.

Ratings Understate ‘Dangerous’ Chinese Local Government Risks, Dagong Says
This guy will probably get executed for telling the truth about the chinese economy.

Ready for the Next Trillion-Dollar Bailout?

Drip after drip of deflation data

Durable Goods Are Latest Economic Disappointment: June -1.0% Reading Is Largest Decline Since August 2009
But of course the MSM lies and say it's up.

Albert Edwards Sees Stocks Under March Lows As Bond Yield Go Below 2%
SocGen was right back in July 08... and now that ECRI has dropped below -10, I agree with him that the markets will start dropping again.

Oil falls a second day after US supplies gain, Consumer confidence drops.

And if they want to attack Iran without totally destroying the economy, they need to let the markets and oil tank below 50$ a barrel... otherwise it's gonna be hell when they do attack them.

Moody finally telling the truth? Impossible! Maybe they had their hand forced by the chinese rating agencies calling them on their BS.
Moody's Puts Too Big To Fail Banks On Outlook Negative

Jim Rogers Calls CNBC A Market PR Agency Whose Sole Purpose Is To Make Stocks Go Higher
That is also GreenBigMan job.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Vitchilo]

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 03:18 PM
And the news that makes me sick and that I'm gonna show to my sheeple friend saying that the Finance Reform bill was for the good of the economic system and that the big banks were against it.... YEAH SURE.

SEC Says New Financial Regulation Law Exempts it From Public Disclosure

The law, signed last week by President Obama, exempts the SEC from disclosing records or information derived from "surveillance, risk assessments, or other regulatory and oversight activities." Given that the SEC is a regulatory body, the provision covers almost every action by the agency, lawyers say. Congress and federal agencies can request information, but the public cannot.

That argument comes despite the President saying that one of the cornerstones of the sweeping new legislation was more transparent financial markets. Indeed, in touting the new law, Obama specifically said it would “increase transparency in financial dealings."

Now if my friend continues denying, he won't be my friend no more. Life is too short to waste with sheeples like that.

Federal Debt and the Risk of a Financial Crisis

With U.S. government debt already at a level that is high by historical standards, and the prospect that, under current policies, federal debt would continue to grow, it is possible that interest rates might rise gradually as investors’ confidence in the U.S. government’s finances declined, giving legislators sufficient time to make policy choices that could avert a crisis. It is also possible, however, that investors would lose confidence abruptly and interest rates on government debt would rise sharply, as evidenced by the experiences of other countries.

Unfortunately, there is no way to predict with any confidence whether and when such a crisis might occur in the United States.

No way to predict IF a confidence crisis will occur? SERIOUSLY? Well maybe he's right, after all, most ``economists`` and ``investors`` are taught since the first day they enter school how the US financial system is the strongest ever, ect... bla bla bla... the safest investment bet.

So maybe he's right. Those investors/economists are so out of their freaking mind that they'll continue investing in the US sinking ship till hell freezes over. So a confidence crisis will never happen.

Or China/Europe will collapse before the US does again and the US will be a ``safe heaven`` once again...

California Gov. Schwarzenegger orders furloughs: report


[edit on 28-7-2010 by Vitchilo]

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:02 PM
Only 29% of Germans support Merkel

This could be big news really soon... she could lose majority and power... real nationalists could come in and say bye bye to the Euro...

That would be neat.

Now for some sick JOKE...

Kashkari... you know that scumbag who testified in congress that he did not know where the money went from TARP... that it was secret?

That son of a gun said today that the bank bailouts WERE AGAINST HIS IDEOLOGY OF FREE MARKET AND THAT HE WAS AGAINST IT.


This is getting sick...

"bailing out the financial system went directly against our shared beliefs in free markets and fair play."


More on the Californian situation...
California Declares State Of Emergency Over State Finances

US collapses to be worse than the Roman empire collapse...

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Vitchilo]

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:25 PM
Don't worry about that. The US will hustle its services and thus pay off its debt.

That was nasty

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 07:57 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

How can an illness be cured?
You don't cure illness, you cure people ill with illness.

And then there is a camp in the middle—defending last year's stimulus, but urging a deficit-cutting plan now.

Stimulating the illness, and pulling the plug on the ill.

How can they be so stupid?

In reality, America has become a mercenary state, a state of mercenaries - contractors - citizens of the world - modern times Goths.

It is a very interesting development, but has it been covered by the academy yet?

We need some fresh theories.

Keynesians totally lost from their sight that here it is involved much more than domestic economy. How will they pay back foreign debt? I say, something must be for hire.

Like in Afghanistan.

We know who pays for those wars, but someone must be earning, and it is far from being transparent. Where does that profit go?

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:43 AM
And amid all this look at what the corruption in our government is doing to the rights of the American voters in this nation, take a look at what the party that probably be winning congress in November is doing to Americas sovereignty

Republicans Block Measure to Ban Foreign Meddling in U.S. Elections

Previously, foreign corporations could legally spend money on American elections only through their political action committees. Now, however, U.S. subsidiaries of multinational corporations can spend directly on advertising for and against candidates and issues, although foreign individuals are barred from being involved in the spending decisions.

“The court has, in effect, legalized foreign governments and foreign corporations to participate in our electoral politics,” said Pat Choate, an author and former Reform Party candidate for vice president, told Politico. “It’ll happen instantaneously. It’ll happen in the 2010 elections. … The Japanese corporations, the European corporations will do it instantly through American subsidiaries.”

We are to become a nation officially run by anybody else with money but the already bankrupted American citizen.

And then can somebody tell me how can changing anything anymore in our nations capitol will benefit but foreign interest, private corrupted too big to fail financial houses and corporate America

The DISCLOSE Act would seek to close the loopholes created by Citizens United by banning electioneering by any corporation when foreign nationals control 20 percent or more of the voting shares, a majority of the board of directors are foreign nationals, or if a foreign national runs the U.S. subsidiary.

But with united Republican opposition and holding only 59 seats, Democrats did not have the votes to break a Republican filibuster and bring the measure to the floor for a final vote. The final tally in a straight party-line vote was 57 to 41, three votes short of the three-fifths majority required to defeat Republican stall tactics. The House passed the measure earlier this year with only two Republican votes

This is what our own for the people elected whores are doing to us

[edit on 29-7-2010 by marg6043]

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 09:43 AM
Obviously, nation has lost its importance.
The question is whether loyalty was to nation or democracy? None?
I think, nowadays, it is about loyalty to Corporation.
Fits nicely with the idea of mercenary economy.

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 10:56 AM
reply to post by DangerDeath

The you wonder if America is truly broken that nobody is protecting the nation for its citizens in Capitol hill, seems that when it comes to money the are all whores for sell and screw the nations rightful citizens rights

This nation is for sell along with the corruption we call our for the people elected politicians.

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 12:36 PM
Does anybody know what happened to all of those (cargo) ships that were famously photographed/recorded as being mothballed near the begining of the financial crisis. As I recall there were major storage points set up all over the world, certainly I know that some were anchored in the Cornish estuaries in the UK, but I also recall massive groups found in the Asia/Pacific region?

These debates about the IMF report on China and all the other pressing news/debate about 'recovery' have fired my interest in that situation again - anybody got any info?

[edit: found this

""Shipping Data Show Strong Trade" Fin24

Johannesburg - Despite concern over global unemployment and Europe's debt issues, world trade seems to be healthy - judging from shipping container volumes. In a recent newsletter to clients, Stanlib director Paul Hansen pointed to an 18% year-on-year rise in container volumes, remarking "world trade is strong in 2010". Information was collected by Macquaries Equities Research among 200 container ports in 58 countries. This confidence, however, does not seem to reflect in the share price of JSE-listed shipping group Grindrod [JSE:GND]. Since April, the share has slid from a high of 1 730c to trade at around 1 420 cents per share. However, when Grindrod reported its full-year results in February, CEO Alan Olivier was upbeat on activity levels. "The improved economic activity - mainly driven by growth in China and India - has led to increasing commodity demand, generally higher commodity prices and a substantial rise in trade volumes." While container data would suggest the economy is on the rebound, there have been a number of shocks around the world. These include a perceived slowdown in economic activity in China, and recent data showing a sharp decline in the US markets. If either of these heavyweights lose momentum, it could have a negative effect on global economic growth. -


[edit on 29-7-2010 by curioustype]

posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 05:50 AM
China Overtakes Japan As World's No.2 Economy

Till it collapses because of the housing bubble... but of course it's too big to fail...

1974, Friedrich Hayek nobel memorial prize in economics speech :

“[this economic condition] has been brought about by policies which the majority of economists recommended and even urged governments to pursue. We have indeed at the moment little cause for pride: as a profession we have made a mess of things.”

Austrian economists... they know what they are talking about.

GDP report today...even Goldman thinks it's gonna go down.
"The overall impact of fiscal policy (combining all levels of government) is likely to go from an average of +1.3 percentage points between early 2009 and early 2010 to -1.7 percentage points in 2011, a swing of about -3 percentage points. We estimate that the boost to the level of GDP starts to decline in mid-2010, first gently and then more forcefully, setting up a significant negative impact on GDP growth in late 2010 and 2011."

Well duh. The GDP numbers were BS from the start due to magical accounting.

posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 07:51 AM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Actually it will surpass US before the end of the year, or that is what is been prognosticated so far.

As they were lagging the behind the US by just a few numbers.

And you are right they will be too big to fail . . .

posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 08:07 AM
i suspect the market will react negativly to the GDP lack of growth report just released...put together will the continued but less massive layoffs

can only spell a triple digit loss on the DOW today [typical reactionary impulses] my guess at closing is ~10,358.86 (or even lower)

*Added the decimals to my projection, just for accuracy


from yahoo finance:

Gross domestic product expanded at a 2.4 percent annual rate, the Commerce Department said in its first estimate, after a revised 3.7 percent growth pace in the January-March quarter.

Analysts polled by Reuters had forecast GDP, which measures total goods and services output within U.S. borders, growing at a 2.5 percent rate in the second quarter. The government had previously estimated a 2.7 percent growth rate for the first three months of this year.

~the number juggling experts~

[edit on 30-7-2010 by St Udio]

posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 08:19 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Actually it will surpass US before the end of the year, or that is what is been prognosticated so far.

Sorry marg but I will have to disagree strongly with you there.

Are you actually saying that CHINA'S GDP will surpass US GDP THIS YEAR?

Since China is now number 2, just above Japan they are probably in the 5 trillion range of GDP.

The US GDP is around 14 trillion. Even if you take the real contraction of the US GDP, it's a maximum low of 12 trillion.

So I would say it's IMPOSSIBLE that China GDP surpasses the US this year... unless of course the dollar is dropped as the world reserve currency and the US GDP takes a dive of 50%.

posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 08:23 AM
I don't know whether anyone else has noticed, but Greece is currently going through what I can only describe as another major crisis, essentially financial/systemic breakdown - yet I see VERY little coverage or reporting in the fact IMO coverage appears to have been reduced, and sidelined since the news first began emerging (yesterday?).

Here's a taste of what we're missing:

[edit - this too yesterday - note the change in tone to today's coverage...]
"Greek police fire teargas at striking truckers"

The stand-off between striking truck drivers and authorities in Greece intensified today hours after the government issued an emergency order to force protesters back to work. With fuel shortages stranding thousands of tourists and disrupting supplies of food and medicines nationwide, prime minister George Papandreou resorted to emergency legislation, more usually used at times of war or great natural disaster, to end the walk-out.

"Greece's national strike threatens chaos for British tourists"

[edit: "Greece's national strike threatens chaos..."

"Prime minister launches emergency legislation as dry fuel pumps leave drivers stranded"

* Helena Smith in Athens and Gemma Kappala-Ramsay
* The Guardian, Friday 30 July 2010]

The prime minister, George Papandreou, resorted to emergency legislation late on Wednesday, telling the drivers that unless they returned to work they would face stiff fines and their vehicles being requisitioned. It was the fourth time since the end of military rule in 1974 that a mobilisation order – usually announced at times of war or great natural disaster – has been issued by a government. "This is an unpleasant decision … but the country cannot afford adventures in the middle of the summer," Papandreou said.But the reaction was swift and unforgiving. "It is highly unusual that after just three days of going on strike we should be mobilised in this way," said Giorgos Stamos, a member of the truck drivers' union. "The order is coming through to [drivers] but I have no idea how they are going to react to it." In a culture where workers' rights are seen as sacred, the mobilisation call has riled unionists with the KKE communist party newspaper, Rizospastis, declaring that the government was bent "on smashing every striker's right". "There is nothing left but to gather forces and fight," it proclaimed from its front page.

But it's OK, most of the MSM appear to be sticking with stories that are fairly familiar, so it can't really be important can it?

[edit on 30-7-2010 by curioustype]

[edit on 30-7-2010 by curioustype]

[edit on 30-7-2010 by curioustype]

posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 08:41 AM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Is in production, sorry I mislead the topic of the GDP,

China to Supplant U.S. as World's Top Manufacturer

Last year, America accounted for 19.9 percent of the world’s 8.6 trillion manufacturing output, amounting to 1.7 trillion worth of goods.

China was hot on America’s heels. Beijing was responsible for 18.6 percent of the world’s manufacturing output and 1.6 trillion worth of goods.

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