The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by wxguru


While I agree that precious metals "have"and impact on the US economy, is not the main supporter of the US dollar.

Since the 1970s gold is not longer use for the US to show the strength of our nations wealth, but oil is now the one doing that, Countries that are not oil producing countries like China and India are the ones that are driving and manipulating gold.

US doesn't have too.

We got oil.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by time91

 

You aren't getting it yet.

What makes the metals market so much more important than lets say the Sugar Market or Lean Hogs?

Because it can be used as a hedge against the devaluation of fiat currency. I know, so could these other things, but gold has historically gone up even more when paper currencies devalue, than other commodities.

Don't you think it would be to the Fed's advantage to manipulate the markets with the least volume? Then take this money and either buy or sell dollars or move the US DX? Do you understand how much money flows through these markets and how impossible it would really be to unload the positions that would require this massive undertaking?

Yes, they could very well do that. However, wouldn't low volume be as much of a blessing as a curse? What I mean is large sums moving quickly through the market would absolutely scream manipulation. You don't want to do that because then the game would end abruptly, and you couldn't do it for long.

Look at these performances over the last quarter.. Data There is nothing special about gold or anything, all commodities move like this. And yet you still try and talk down to me? You can think of me as your god for now. Because I am miles past you and have probably done more research into global securities markets last week than you have in your entire life.

Gold is special because it is basically the most natural money. It is what would be used as money if paper currencies collapsed. It is an indicator of fear and if investors see it continuing to go up then it could have a snowball effect. This isn't just some rehash of a blog post, its a real issue. It has also already gone up more than double since 2007, and still could continue to climb. Also, as appealing as an oats backed currency may be, I don't see it happening. And forgive me if I fail to worship you, O mighty one.

You haven't put any research into this, because if I really wanted to take the time to pull all the charts and totally pwn you I would. In reality, you have a long way to go. GL on your journey. Make sure if you ever have an opportunity for advancement in the financial industry you don't start with this in the interview.


In the end, here are the facts.

1) You have done no research. Reading ZeroHedge doesn't count.

You don't approve of bloggers, the internet, or ZeroHedge, duly noted.

2) You don't really grasp the flow of money from non-liquid contracts as opposed to liquid ones.

3) You have no idea what the derivative market is about. For a real explanation and a firm understanding you should visit the CME's website.

I know enough not to be a part of it, all a derivative is a secondary bet on something that actually has value. So derivatives have no real value. They will BS and say something is backed by something with real value, but its just as likely to be a fraud. (example: mortgage backed se

4) The US DOLLAR isn't in a bubble. What is the matter with you?

I'll own it, that was god-awfully worded. I do mean the dollar is overvalued, and anyway you would have to extend that chart back to the 1970s to get any real sense of what it meant. Obviously, the dollar is not on an upward swing.

5) I don't really doubt the existance of the PPT. More like JPM and friends.

6) There ARE FAR BETTER THINGS TO MANIPULATE THAN GOLD PRICE WHICH HAS ABSOLUTELY NO #ING BEARING ON THE US ECONOMY.

[edit on 22-7-2010 by GreenBicMan]

already disproved.

1. Prove your first paragraph. Show me instead of writing about it.

2. You need to look at time and sales of derivative contracts. Illiquid securities move like crazy, well, because they are illiquid. Why wouldn't they just sit on the volume and squeeze people out? I am not sure you understand it correctly still, but finally are making a little sense.

3. Gold will be used as a currency when paper collapses? You are assuming a lot here. Tell you what, you got me when you can pay with gold at the 7-11. I will bow to you and you will pwn me. I will eat my hat and yours. At this point you are certainly my god. Until then, this has about .0000000015% chance of happening, so why even go there?

4. I still don't understand how the dollar is over-valued. Please show more evidence.

5. Derivatives have no value? Whoa, nevermind you are backpedaling. If it has no value how can 1 GC (gold) contract be worth 100 troy oz. of gold? You will have a hard time explaining this, but I welcome it. You can certainly take delivery on it. Please explain?

6. Get some data to back anything you have to say up. Just don't link me to a blog. Do the research, I will be waiting.

EDIT : also

Already disproved? Didn't I just prove it 4 posts ago by showing you USA GDP? Does that look like a historical gold chart? You are slipping.

[edit on 23-7-2010 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by GreenBicMan


The dollar will crash same goes with the Eu Dollar you cant change that fact.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Anything is possible.

But more importantly will you go broke the other way betting against that? The answer is most likely yes unless you go "Daddy Cramer" on us and call the top in the US dx.

Seven EU banks fail stress tests

Not good news for some institutions whichever way they spin it, considering the tests were widely regarded as weak.

...Some analysts are already arguing that the tests were not strict enough.

"What seems to have occurred is a compromise amongst European banking regulators, with many questioning if the bar had been set way too low in testing the European banking sector," said Mark O'Sullivan of foreign exchange firm Currencies Direct.

"It seems the tests may have raised more questions than they have answered and in the coming weeks, it will be the interbank lending markets that will have the real answer as to whether real confidence has returned to the European banks."

Some good news regarding UK banks, at least:

The UK's four major banks - RBS, Lloyds, HSBC and Barclays - were among the banks tested and all passed the tests, which were carried out by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) on behalf of the EU.

"As expected, the outcomes of the stresses demonstrate the preparedness and resilience of the UK banks under unlikely adverse economic scenarios," the FSA said.

"This resilience is a result of the considerable work that has been undertaken to strengthen UK banks in recent years."

At least most of the banks came through with a positive result. (Just bear in mind the widely-accepted weakness of the process.)

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


No, it will not, yes our economy will crash before our dollar does, and our government will bailout our nations big investing firms and banks over and over again, why? again our nations monetary backing is not gold, is oil.

As long as we have that precious natural resource we can sell our debt to willing countries even with the economic chaos and print some more. . .

And for anybody that have not noticed yet, our nation has been on sale for a long time, as long as other nations can own a piece of this nation things are just peachy.

The global economy web of intrigue, corruption and under the table deals is the part that we will never know or either understand.

Only 27 percent of the loans to the financing vehicles can be repaid in full by cash generated by the projects they funded, the person said.

European Interbank Liquidity Worst Since August, As Goldman Sees 89% Stress "Pass Rate"
Ooops.

Beijing Considers Plan To Move Its Currency Further From Dollar
Do it and fast...

China's Car Dealers Cut Prices, Hand Out IPods as Sales Slow
Recovery is fake in China too? NOOO impossible!

Cleveland Fed Goes Che: Advocates Debt Forgiveness Over Bankruptcy For Corporate Debtors
That's more like economic fascism, also known as Corporatism.

ECRI Leading Indicator Breaches Critical -10 Threshold, Hits -10.5
And if you all know what the ECRI index means, when it goes under -10, that means a recession will happen... or in this case, A DOUBLE DIP INTO DEPRESSION. Prepare for the markets to tank or a new stimulus/QE...

S&P Revises Hungary Outlook To Negative On IMF Talks Collapse
And Hungary does one more step towards being Greece 2.0 .

reply to post by GreenBicMan

The US Dollar is in a bubble?

'
Some might say so. Considering the steep decline of the Dollar from the late 1990's till 2009 one could assume that the sudden strengthening of the Dollar is signs of the US economy improving, or perhaps the rest of the World deteriorating. It could also be that in a sudden panic more people sought the safety of the Greenback but are slowly moving away from it, as the US is still rife with economic disabilities.

I wouldn't call it "bubble" because "bubble" usually indicates sudden extreme growth for any duration of time where as the Dollar is extremely Volatile to begin with. I would however speculate that the Dollar is indeed over-valued in comparison to other Currencies due to the simple fact that nothing in our economy has drastically changed to alter the economic stability of the Country. It will also progressively get worse, as Washington will continue a policy of monetizing debt to secure inflation into the economy to stop a sudden collapse.. were as Europe has essentially resigned it's self to what comes will come. They are ill prepared for a continent wide economic crisis, the centralized bank don't allow individual states to monetize, and thus will cut spending. It is no different than say Indiana being broke .. they obviously can't print more Dollars, they will either sell debt or cut spending (they incidentally chose to sell debt)

IMO .. and it's only my opinion and I am an amateur, that Europe's spending cuts will slash into their economy like a hot knife. Since the economy crashed Government has been the biggest spender, all over the World, if the Governments cut spending and retract budgets, a huge portion of consumption and orders will be lost.. thus the economy will deflate. For Europe it will eventually mean contraction and buckling down of budgets and digging in for the long haul. Their currency will remain relatively strong because they will inflate it minimally as no one state can seek monetization as a last salvation, only the UK truly has this option. The US however will monetize until we collapse.. we cannot cut spending, there is absolutely no possible way it could ever be done.. and if it were done, it would destroy the economy because there is no private entity to fill the void. As a result the currency will continue a decline.

Call it a bubble, call it a cycle, call it justice for poor economic ideology.. regardless, over the next 2 to 3 years the US Dollar is going to see a steady decline, unless Central Banks put a real effort into saving us.

articles.latimes.com...

Alarms, detectors disabled so top rig officials could sleep

The Deepwater Horizon's fire and gas leak alarms were disabled for at least a year to prevent false alarms from waking up rig leaders, a chief engineer told federal investigators.

I'm afraid the same has been done in regards to economy
And civil rights...
And...

“The US is insolvent and faces bankruptcy as a pure debtor nation but the rating agencies still give it high rankings,” Mr Guan Jianzhong, chairman of Dagong Global Credit Rating said in a recent interview.

Indeed my man....indeed.

China finally waking up to the joke called ``the US recovery``.


EDIT: Just found out there's plans to pass cap and trade between the election and january...without a vote.

Remember how they tried to pass the health care bill without a vote? Well they'll try again, but this time, with cap and trade.

[edit on 25-7-2010 by Vitchilo]

reply to post by Vitchilo


Yes I received a E-mail from groups that are trying to stop no only this bill from passing (after the Democrats lose congress and before the new congress step in) but two more bills that are also been considered.

So congress are starting to tackle last minute bills before they lose their seats to the opposite party of dumbers.

House Democrats Unveiling "Make it in America" Plan

Kind of too littler to late if you ask me, America has already lost millions of good pay jobs to oversea slave labor.

Next week, as part of the Democrat’s “Make it in America” plan, the House of Representatives will vote on a measure designed to compel lawmakers to tackle the contentious issue of the nation’s ever-increasing trade deficit.

The End the Trade Deficit Act, introduced over a year ago by Rep. Pete DeFazio (D-OR), has languished in the House Way and Means committee without receiving a single hearing. But in an effort to turn their focus to job creation ahead of November’s midterm election, the bill will finally receive a vote.

“We need a trade overhaul to help our nation export goods, not jobs,” DeFazio said in a press release. “The world is not forever going to lend us money to buy things that we used to make here. And as we impoverish more and more of the middle class by exporting their jobs, we're going to have even less capability of buying those goods. Something has to change.”

So, congress better provide for means of jobs if they are to push whiteout vote the CRAP AND RAPEbill.

www.economyincrisis.org...



[edit on 26-7-2010 by marg6043]

This one is funny, China now can not longer use protectionism without repercussions, as they are fast becoming an economic power with dependency on countries like US for their exports, now they have to play the WTO game

What China's Reapplication to the WTO Procurement Group Means,

“China offered to increase foreign companies' access to its government purchases as it seeks to overcome international complaints that it discriminates against foreign vendors, but analysts said the move still may not go far enough toward easing their concerns,”Loretta Chao wrote in a July 20 article.

Foreign investors criticized China’s government for its rules governing access to its massive government-procurement market, which prompted the new proposal. The offer, presented in the form of a new, revised proposal for membership in the WTO’s Agreement on Government Procurement (GPA), which requires nondiscriminatory access to government purchases, follows an initial proposal that was rejected in 2007.

Though the U.S. and other WTO members rejected China’s first proposal, China’s current offer addresses a number of complaints about the 2007 proposal. “It reduces a requested transition period for implementing the agreement to five years from 15 years, for example, and also adds 15 more central-government agencies whose purchases are covered by the agreement.”

www.economyincrisis.org...

Will this ever happen?

Goldman Threatened with Audit over Derivatives

Goldman Sachs is facing a threat by the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission to bring in outside accountants to comb through the bank’s systems for data on its derivatives business, the panel’s chairman has said.

The commission will not back down from demands for information Goldman’s executives have maintained they do not track, Phil Angelides told the Financial Times.

www.cnbc.com...

No Marg, it will never happen. Unless of course there's a revolution... and even then, maybe people will just burn it all to the ground.

This is kinda scary :
Will The Record Plunge In Shadow Liabilities Impair Current Account "Shadow" Deficit Funding And Guarantee A Double Dip?

Applying A Basel III Tier 1 Stress Test Threshold Implies E2.6 Trillion Of Assets In 39 Banks Impaired By Equity Undercapitalization

With the assumptions and conditions for the stress test pulled straight out of CEBS' collective bottom, it is no surprise that a mere 7 banks for a total $246 billion in affected assets end up being defined as undercapitalized. But what happens when instead of using a 6% Tier 1 capital threshold, a Basel III 8% Tier 1 is used? Something log scale worse. As Austrian Der Standart journalist Lukas Sustala points out, and as demonstrated on his chart below, the failure rate goes up exponentially: instead of 7 banks failing, 39 of Europe's biggest banks would be undercapitalized, and the impaired assets would amount to a whopping E2.6 trillion

Yeah the banks are real stable!

After Expectations A Modest Improvement, Dallas Fed Manufacturing Index Crashes To -21, From -4 Prior, Exp. Of -2.5
Real recovery there! 10 times worse than expected!

This just furthers my belief that the whole thing is like a pyramidal scheme and it's ONLY A MATTER OF TIME before it all collapse.

It's just a fact. It will collapse. The ONLY QUESTION is when.

But eh, let's listen to Obama's optimism! ``It could be worse``!

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Vitchilo]

Japan has been in trouble for the last 20 years... always on the edge of collapse... it's probably going to be the next ``Greece``... and it's WAY BIGGER.

Japan`s wealthiest businessman, "The nation's finances are also on the verge of collapse."

Mainichi: The decades since the bubble burst is being called Japan's "lost 20 years." What do you think about that?

Tadashi Yanai: I think Japan has been economically defeated. The United States has annual growth of 3-4 percent, and emerging economies growth of close to 10 percent. Meanwhile, over the past 20 years Japan has for the most part not seen any growth at all. The nation's finances are also on the verge of collapse. If the market turns on us, I think there is a serious danger of Greece-like national bankruptcy. Foreign investors are going from having no interest in Japan, to worrying that the Japanese economy will never recover, that Japan is "crashing." I think Japan is on the precipice.

And it seems the service given to customers from Japan and the rapidity of orders being done has been going down noticeably in the last few months.

Banks knows that they have nothing to fear, as we know that as long as they are one of the "too big to fail" they have the government backing them off with tax payer money.

And as for Japan, they are our number 2 debt holder they will have nothing to fear also, a collapse will never be allowed to happen, they will get all the money that the global banks will lend them, US, Canada and UK on the top.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by marg6043]

Seven More Banks Close Over the Weekend

Well the merry go around of bank closing is just not slowing down at all.

In yet another example of America’s economic weakness, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation seized seven banks on Friday, bringing the total number of failed banks to over 100 already this year.

Banks in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kansas, Nevada, Minnesota and Oregon were seized. The total cost to the FDIC to wind down the seven banks with $2 billion in assets is expected to be $431 million.

The seven closures bring the year’s total to 103 banks that have succumbed to the poor economic environment. A this time last year, the FDIC had seized 64 banks. Overall, 140 were shut down last year by federal regulators, the highest total since 1992.

www.economyincrisis.org...

Goldman Sachs Paid Out $4.3 Billion of U.S. Taxpayer Money to Foreign Companies

Goldman Sachs Group Inc. documents, released by Senator Chuck Grassley, show that the investment banking and securities firm paid out $4.3 billion of American taxpayer money to foreign companies.

The foreign companies received the money as a reimbursement from Goldman Sachs for losses on investments in credit default swaps. These swaps were initially sold by AIG to Goldman Sachs, who in turn sold them to customers including foreign banks and companies. When the government, to the tune of $182.5 billion, bailed out AIG, Goldman Sachs was the recipient of $12.9 billion of that money indirectly. Much of the bailout money “given” to AIG consisted of funds used to pay its obligations to its Wall Street trading partners on credit default swaps, with Goldman Sachs being the biggest recipient.

It most be nice to be able to run a nation like this too big too fail do in the US. . .

www.economicpopulist.org...

And they will do it over and over again as needed