The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Originally posted by time91
reply to post by GreenBicMan

 

Because if gold really takes off it could mean the end of the overvalued fiat currencies everywhere. The U.S. Dollar would go down with the rest. The Euro may remain higher (as well as the pound) but what they're trying to prevent is a possible paper currency collapse, where all unbacked money loses significant value.

OK..

1. Explain why gold taking off would do this. Remember, gold isn't close to the adjusted for inflation high of 198x which I believe was over $2251/oz. Inflation adjusted data Using this logic would mean we would have been doomed years ago. The 90's weren't a real bad decade though to be long any US [any security you could buy] if I remember correctly.

2. The US Dollar would go down with the rest... Why? Show me the correlation between historical gold prices and the GDP of the USA. Then create a chart of historical gold prices vs US DOLLAR INDEX.

3.The Euro remains higher and pound? Why? Show me the historical gold price vs United Kingdom GDP and then show me the correlation between the estimated yearly GDP of the European Union. Then show me the correlation between those 2 currencies and historical gold prices.

4. Again, paper currency collapse? What are you basing that off of? There is over 1.2 TRILLION DOLLARS CHANGING HANDS EVERY DAY IN GLOBAL FX MARKETS. The estimate in the next 10 years almost double.


Anyway, if you are going to believe things like this that you read (because I am guessing you didn't come up with this yourself) be preapred to do some real research before you repeat stupid things. This would be considered one of the stupid things. You should have realized this as the US DOLLAR LOST GROUND, ALMOST 10 cents to EURO over the past 2 weeks and GOLD WAS LIQUIDATED TO COVER EUR REBOUND. So this would mean the US was long US DOLLARS and then SOLD THEIR GOLD TO BUY EURO'S? That isn't the most damning part of this delusion though. You still have to explain how this would unfold mechanically.

Since you won't find anything significant at all to what you are talking about, just do this. Tell me what the mechanism will be for the Federal Reserve to go about this scheme. They are selling what to buy gold, or they are buying what to short gold? Or are they just using deposits from banks to move money into the gold market?

Do you really think you or "some guy" that wrote the blog that you are referencing really understands the correlation between all these assets and how it is affected by other foreign currency movements and interest rate policy?

Well well well... rating agencies being honest!

The nation's three dominant credit-ratings providers have made an urgent new request of their clients: Please don't use our credit ratings.

Yes don't use us because we are a bunch of corrupt liars. THIS SHOULD BE FRONT PAGE NEWS EVERYWHERE.

Bailout Watchdogs Call Mortgage Program a Bust

Government watchdogs on Wednesday raised a red flag over the Obama administration's program for helping homeowners avoid foreclosure, saying the multibillion-dollar fund is not working and the Treasury Department refuses to fix it.

Warning that the inefficiencies could hold the economy back, the officials told a Senate panel that changes should be made and that Treasury needs to come clean. One official called the program "one of the greatest failures in transparency and accountability" in the $700 billion bailout.

A $50 billion fund was carved out of the Wall Street bailout for the mortgage program. The housing market being a root cause of the 2008 economic crisis, the money was pitched as a way to help millions of homeowners avoid foreclosure and get the economy back on track.

But a fraction of that money, $248 million, has been spent.

Elizabeth Warren, chairwoman of the congressional TARP Oversight Panel, said that for every one family that wins a permanent mortgage modification, "10 more have been moved out through foreclosure."

"This is a program that's just -- it's behind the curve," she told the panel on Wednesday.

From the numbers I've seen it seems it worked... a little.

Taxes on currency markets... GOOD.
Today, I introduced H.R. 5783, the Investing in Our Future Act. My legislation would simply impose a small tax — of 0.005 percent — on these currency transactions.

Senate Democrats will soon advance a plan to make permanent President George W. Bush's 2001 tax cuts for middle-class Americans earning less than $200,000, but let the tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans expire, two Senate party aides said Tuesday. They will also propose to reinstate a 45% estate tax on individuals for the next two years.
Good?

According to Matt Simmons, the clean up cost will be around 1 trillion and BP will go to 1$ a share... BP in trouble means the whole economy in trouble because of CSOs.

10 Year Plunges To 2.86%, Stocks In Denial And 10 Points Rich To Intraday Fair Value
Why are the 10 years bond going down if the real demand for it goes down? Or is the demand up?

[edit on 21-7-2010 by Vitchilo]

Obama being a big fat liar : No more taxpayer funded bailouts. YEAH SURE OBAMA... you are right, after all, it's debt funded bailouts...

Remember the 700 billion ``bailout``... officially, which are lies to the downside, It's now 3.7 trillion.

Oops.

Now if you remember...
U.S. Rescue May Reach $23.7 Trillion, Barofsky Says

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
1. Explain why gold taking off would do this. Remember, gold isn't close to the adjusted for inflation high of 198x which I believe was over $2251/oz. Inflation adjusted data Using this logic would mean we would have been doomed years ago. The 90's weren't a real bad decade though to be long any US [any security you could buy] if I remember correctly.

We were in a good economic situation in the 1990s, so fear and uncertainty were at a low level. Our currency depends on everyones belief that it has value, foreign countries buying our bonds believe we will be able to pay back our debt. All currencies backed by nothing (fiat) have eventually collapsed. Obviously gold is a measure of fear and rising prices lead to more fear, especially if the economy is still shaky.

2. The US Dollar would go down with the rest... Why? Show me the correlation between historical gold prices and the GDP of the USA. Then create a chart of historical gold prices vs US DOLLAR INDEX.

I'm not going to create historical charts and graphs and make a presentation for you here. It is obviously not 100% correlated, but obviously if we experience serious inflation then gold will go up.

3.The Euro remains higher and pound? Why? Show me the historical gold price vs United Kingdom GDP and then show me the correlation between the estimated yearly GDP of the European Union. Then show me the correlation between those 2 currencies and historical gold prices.

I meant higher now vs. the dollar.If you want to look up all of these historical comparisons feel free.

And again, they obviously are not 100% correlated.
4. Again, paper currency collapse? What are you basing that off of? There is over 1.2 TRILLION DOLLARS CHANGING HANDS EVERY DAY IN GLOBAL FX MARKETS. The estimate in the next 10 years almost double.

A slumping economy, high national debt, many individuals high in debt, low confidence in markets, economy, every fiat currency ever created has eventually collapsed. Because they are based on confidence, the value of the paper goes down with the confidence in it...
Derivatives were traded around a quadrillion before they collapsed. Just because the game went on for a long time doesn't mean it will last forever.

Anyway, if you are going to believe things like this that you read (because I am guessing you didn't come up with this yourself) be preapred to do some real research before you repeat stupid things. This would be considered one of the stupid things. You should have realized this as the US DOLLAR LOST GROUND, ALMOST 10 cents to EURO over the past 2 weeks and GOLD WAS LIQUIDATED TO COVER EUR REBOUND. So this would mean the US was long US DOLLARS and then SOLD THEIR GOLD TO BUY EURO'S? That isn't the most damning part of this delusion though. You still have to explain how this would unfold mechanically.

Since you won't find anything significant at all to what you are talking about, just do this. Tell me what the mechanism will be for the Federal Reserve to go about this scheme. They are selling what to buy gold, or they are buying what to short gold? Or are they just using deposits from banks to move money into the gold market?

Obviously I don't know exactly how it is done, only that it is. Remember that whistleblower from JP Morgan that said they were manipulating silver and gold prices? Its not impossible, and there have been a lot of strange movements concerning gold over the past 5 years. Even in a homicide investigation you don't have to prove everything, just that a murder occured and you can confirm beyond a reasonable doubt who did it...

Do you really think you or "some guy" that wrote the blog that you are referencing really understands the correlation between all these assets and how it is affected by other foreign currency movements and interest rate policy?

Do you think you do? I work at a bank, no I'm not a seasoned vet or anything but I try to focus on the basics and I'm learning. Many people get obsessed with details while ignoring major factors and history. If you take what I'm saying as absolute fact you're stupid but if you don't even consider its possibility then you're arrogant.

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reply to post by Vitchilo


Doesn't that makes your blood boil, to think that the credit agencies in this nations hold Americans hostage.

Still we all know that the only reason the economic is still going is thanks to more debt upon debt to finance everything from bailouts to unemployment benefits extensions.

Without that the streets will be full of angry citizens asking for the heads of government officials in a beautiful parade of anarchy.

Now, now, this one is just fantastics so fantastic that actually makes the whole idea nothing but a moron one.

New Legislation Aims to Protect Against Toxic Imports

Somebody in government thinks that US citizens and Dependant of imports should sue producing nations for any results of toxic products.

What a joke, like this nations are to take any responsibility for American base companies that uses outsourcing for the manufacturing of goods.

So let now start suing China and India for been supplying us with manufactured drugs and goods that can kill us

A House panel is set to take up a piece of legislation this week that would give American consumers the ability to sue foreign manufacturers for injuries resulting from dangerous or defective products in U.S. courts, according to The Dow Jones Newswire.

The Foreign Manufacturer Legal Accountability Act, introduced by Rep. Betty Sutton and co-sponsored by over 60 representatives of both parties, is a response to a rash of defective and dangerous foreign products that have flooded the American market in recent years.

"If foreign entities have the benefit of selling products and making profits from sales in the U.S., they should be accountable if the product causes harm," Ami Gadhia, policy counsel for the Consumers Union, said in a House hearing last month, according to the Dow Jones Newswire.

www.economyincrisis.org...

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Damn, a little harsh don't ya think. GreenBicMan you make some obvious good points, but the logic of your post gets destroyed when you make unsound reasoning.

reply to post by wxguru


My reasoning is correct.

Quit believing dumb things you read online by dumb people.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


I am not doubting your reasoning, but when you make logical fallacies, it destroys the message. for example (quit believing dumb people) is a major fallacy in your argument. That is all...

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reply to post by wxguru


People that believe these things then feel the need to go repeat it like they know what they are talking about are stupid.

Not only that, but then cannot back it up, but then try to turn it around back on me? With no evidence either. Just a another ATS bogus argument. So many with so little truth around here.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Are you directing your recent post to me? If so, then your the foolish one. I can almost guarantee I have more schooling then you. Any ways keep up the good job....that is all

reply to post by wxguru


No, educated people wouldn't buy into this theory. Also, I am kind of doubting schooling has anything to do with it. Common sense would help as well.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by wxguru

 

No, educated people wouldn't buy into this theory. Also, I am kind of doubting schooling has anything to do with it. Common sense would help as well.

Schooling has a lot do with the understanding on how the markets work. COMMON SENSE is good, but education is key. You have to understand the basic underpinnings on how and why the markets do what they do. In theory when the Dollar goes up, the Market is suppose to go down. That is my understanding. Sometimes they both go up like now, but reasoning screams "manipulation". The markets are just buying time before the SHTF...THAT IS ALL...

reply to post by wxguru


Take a look at the correlation between EUR USD - SP500 long term.

It isn't a 1:1 correlation. That should be all the proof that one needs.

I'm thinking we're gonna see 11,000 on the dow again pretty quick. Lots of good news coming in. Up almost 300 points today.

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx



ES Chart

25 More ES Points about or so + to go before it is time to get too excited. This whole huge range you can see is something that will be resistance. It could align though with a good jobs report tomorrow and the market has been setup like this for a reason. If you believe in that psychology.

I still think that the market is being unethically manipulated. Things just don't make sense day to day with the constant upswings and downswings. Somebody is making money by covertly influencing the market news/data and then making money off of the short sellings. We are just pawns in a larger power game.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
OK

You are hopefully just the teller because this is not possible. You are more than welcome to have any opinion you want though. It is the wrong one.

Back at ya.

Btw, you were born in 1991? This makes more sense. Go back to school kid, don't make my mistakes in life.

It is the summer,I will go back to school, in the fall...
Listen, you make a lot of good points but like I said if you had looked at derivatives history before the bubble burst, you would say look, this has gone on this long with this much money involved, show me a chart where this has happened... Obviously you could not prove your point using past economic data, until AFTER it fell apart. Every bubble looks good when its blown up, I just think this one (fiat money) is floating towards a thumb tack.
Also, I do not just read one random blog post or invent ideas like this out of nowhere, I researched it a little bit as well. The markets do not normally go as correlated to gold (and other precious metals) as they have been recently.
Finally, the WGFM's existence is a fact,the only point of disagreement is in whether they can reasonably be called the 'PPT' (whether or not they manipulate markets, gold prices, etc.). However according to whistleblower's big banking institutions (like JP Morgan) have been manipulating metals prices, showing it IS possible. A group with as many powerful people as the WGFM and a government mandate to prevent another collapse like black monday obviously could manipulate both markets and metals prices.
So, that led me to believe they probably were manipulating them, although according to other researchers (such as Mike Ruppert) they can only really stabilize one at a time because of the vast resources necessary to do even one of the two.