The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

wow supertrot, it takes some guts to tell the world about it. I am sorry for the financial hell you've been through. I've heard stories like yours from many people, when a bank says - you are approved for X amount of dollars, most are thrilled and pleasantly surprised, they don't realize - or at least didn't - that the inflated home values were all imaginary. Hope you find work and things get better for you!

Now for the thread's sake..

Preliminary estimates for tomorrow's jobs report look bad

U.S. job losses seen jumping to 648,000 in February

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Job losses in the United States likely accelerated last month and the unemployment rate probably surged to a 25-year high as recession-hit companies took drastic steps to cut costs, according to economists.

They reckon that the U.S. economy, reeling from the worst financial crisis since the 1930s and stuck in recession since December 2007, will continue to bleed jobs well into the second half of next year, even as overall output begins to recover.

The Labor Department is scheduled to release its February non-farm payrolls report on Friday at 8:30 a.m.

A poll of 78 economists by Reuters produced a median forecast that employers outside the farm sector slashed 648,000 jobs in February after cutting 598,000 positions in January. Forecasts for February ranged from a loss of 800,000 jobs to a drop of 500,000.

Manufacturing payrolls were estimated to have shrunk by 195,000.

The survey predicted the unemployment rate would rise to 7.9 percent, which would be the highest level since January 1984. The U.S. jobless rate was 7.6 percent in January.

full story

Technically, a recession is a drop in GDP for at least 2 quarters. According to this article, we've been in one since December 2007 - 15 months or 5 quarters.

According to Wikipedia, a depression is characterized by abnormal increases in unemployment, restriction of credit, shrinking output and investment, numerous bankruptcies, reduced amounts of trade and commerce, as well as highly volatile relative currency value fluctuations, mostly devaluations.

Which one would you all say we are in?

[edit on 3/6/09 by redhatty]

Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd is moving to allow the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to temporarily borrow as much as $500 billion from the Treasury Department.




See, that's the thing I just don't get. I know it's been stated here many times, but what the hell?

Where do they think this money is going to come from?

They are just willy-nilly giving out BILLION and TRILLIONS of dollars everyday. Who do they think they are fooling? The country is going broke! DUH! Hell, the world is going broke. We see that.

If they had all of these mega trillions of bucks to spend like that, for real, then NO ONE would be in this crazy mess to begin with. We would all be so personally wealthy that we would never have needed a loan.

Loan? What's that. I'm a TRILLIONAIRE! Everyone is. We've all got Trillions in the bank.


I know that this is an exaggeration, but surely you see my point? This spending is going to change everything we are used to.

Scumbag pig Hal Turner completely plagiarized Karl Denninger's ticker.

What a douchebag

reply to post by redhatty


What do you expect from that racist pos?

I just noticed, none of us apparently sleeps..

A "Friends" opinion:

Barry wants the market to fail. He has challenged Wall Street. Look it up on youtube. He and Gordon have plans for you. Market failure is an action to create their ultimate solution. They're very evil people. Don't take my word for it. Sit back and watch it unfold. You won't like the NEW solution. Its all been in the cards for years. They have a deadline to meet. They're a few months behind at moment. Plans are not going smoothly. Can someone pass me the salt for my popcorn? BTW, Wake the F up!!!

www.marketwatch.com...[3E4B9AA2-1748-4AE4-82BA-10F4CD13DD7A]#comment1771707

Are we goin' digitalized?

Oh, please

Good night friend!! Sleepy, p***** about the things coming our way. Just trying to tell what I wish to help others, we all will bond after the ppppppppppppfffffffffttttt goes off.

That means everyone will understand the entire system. Our Gods/religious hokeyness of money & domination will be laughed upon.

I must say this to Bill Gates, and we don't see eye to eye. However, without these tools you helped create, we wouldn't have excelled as a civilization. Thank you. This took alot for me to state, so we'll leave this on a positive note. Just don't forget to use the 'KEY' when the SHTF. We really need the interface to stay open. We are counting on you. :>)

Stick to joystick

[edit on 6-3-2009 by DangerDeath]

The ruling paradigm of historical times was best exposed by Homer in his "Iliad". That one was about how the world will be when controlled by gangs of rogues and brigands.

The paradigm is switching now. I could make several picks, but my favorite pick is Phillip K. Dick's "Ubiq".

If you haven't already read it, do it now.

Be prepared for a large shift. This is not just human affair.

The Solar system paradigm is about to change.

Darius will never again be the king.

this post addresses the recent & shocking revelation that AIG had the
biggest quarterly loss on record, for any business in history, not just AIG


found this gem:

...
[...] By law, the Fed isn't allowed to buy assets -- it can only lend, as lender of last resort. That was a problem for the Bear Stearns bailout, because JP Morgan said it would only buy Bear if someone else assumed responsibility for the crap. [The] Fed came up with this idea to start a shadow company, called a special purpose vehicle (SPVs were how Enron operated, creating "Chewco" and the like named after Chewbacca - the New York Fed called their SPV "Maiden Lane LLC" for name of the street the NY Fed is located on in southern Manhattan). The deal then was JP Morgan put $1 billion into Maiden Lane, the Fed put $29 billion in cash into it. Maiden Lane paid Bear Stearns $30 billion, which went straight back to JP Morgan as this deal happened simultaneously to JP's purchase of Bear. So Morgan got $30 billion in cash ($29 billion net) and the Fed got stuck owning the crap, but was legally only making a loan to Maiden Lane, who was the legal owner (Maiden Lane was incorporated not in NYC, but in Delaware to avoid paying taxes). By the Fed's own accounting - which is very different from a real company's accounting - Maiden Lane has lost $5 billion between its creation and today....

Using the loophole it had learned during Bear Stearns, the Fed set up two new companies: Maiden Lane II and Maiden Lane III [to help bail out AIG's investors]. Two dealt with the secured lending and Three the #ty credit default swaps. The Fed lent each Maiden Lane $20 billion and $25 billion and then Maiden Lane paid off the investors that had either lent AIG the money to buy the #ty mortgage backed securities (ML II) and those who had the #ty mortgages and the corresponding insurance (ML III). To avoid booking a loss on the Fed's balance sheet, because the Fed had some legal problems if either of these Maiden Lanes lost money, and because of a reporting requirement that Dodd had put into TARP which actually required the Fed to report to the Congress and the public about the cost to taxpayers from ML I, the Fed did some creative accounting. They still paid all of the investors off at full value (par), so that they didn't lose anything. But they booked the loss on AIG's balance sheet and kept Maiden Lane clean...

...This is the hidden story behind how AIG went from losing $38 billion during the first 9 months of 2008 to losing $61 billion in the 4th quarter.


This was all exposed at today's hearing. And despite repeated requests from Senators on both sides - Dodd, Shelby, Corker, Warner - the Fed is still refusing to say who it bailed out through Maiden Lane II and III.

In other words, through a little game.

there are several important points revealed in the article,
the Fed creating dummy, non-tax paying LLCs, to conduct 'creative' accounting transfers with. & technically 'investing' in hedge funds


the article link is: www.opednews.com...


thanks,

[edit on 6-3-2009 by St Udio]

Originally posted by supertrot
Due to personal experience, I can see why Citi is in trouble. I know that my situation is not an isolated case from talking to others in the area. A few years ago I signed a mortgage with Citi to consolidate higher interest personal property loans. At the time I owned my house outright, so I qualified for a no closing cost loan. Their problem is that they own the housing appraisors (which is illegal--appraisors are required to be an unbiased third party). After the appraisor spoke to the loan officer, he valued my home at four times the fair market value. I live in a small economically depressed area with population 2500. For comparison purposes the appraisor used properties forty miles away in a city of 250,000. This did not really bother me I was able to consolidate more loans, shave several points of of interest rates, and lower my monthly payments by 2/3. Unfortunatly, I had to file chapter 7 last fall after losing my job. Now Citi has repossesed a house which, after the real estate market fell, which is roughly worth 1/9th of the money owed aginst it.

Yeah, I know. I have added to the current problem; but, that bank should not have resorted to illegal means just to write more loans. I never envisioned that I would have to default with the salary I was making. I lost my contracting job of 15 years due to lack of construction. I simply could not afford the payments on my new limited income.

Not to get off topic, but I can feel for ya. I lost my house and pawned everything cause I could not find a job for 3 months here in Dallas. I owned a Construction business for 4 years, until it collapsed. I finally gave in and took a $10 an hour job working the door at a bar recently. Little less than the $30, $40, $50 an hour I was making before. 3 peeps and 5 dogs later in a 2 bedroom apartment is quite snug.....hang in there. Take what you can, cause it will get a lot worse!

Guys, keep up the great work!!!!!

Great Im watching CNN and they are talking about the 12 year low. All they can talk about is how Washington isnt doing anything to stop the stock market fall.

C'mon idiots! Dont leave everything upto the government. That just gives them more power over stuff they dont need to be in!

Oh great! Then they talk about American Idol. PFFT You know where their attention is.

This is infuriating.

Okay. Going to watch this--->


[edit on 6-3-2009 by Tentickles]

I know Tentikles, I was groaning about this yesterday. In the last hour of trading CNN lead story (and they stayed with it a good 10 min) was the Chris Brown story. Can't we leave that to the E! channel?

While not scientific at all, I did have a dream last night of a 543 pt drop. Now don't flame me, I'm just sharing and I'm not saying it means anything other then I'm following this thread too closely lol

Tentikles, I was so bummed - I have crappy dial up and I can't view any of your comic relief. I so wanted to hear the song you posted yesterday

Oh, I should add something of value so here goes:

Futures: DJIA 6579.00 -52.00
S&P 681.90 -4.20

Awaiting jobs report at 8:30am

Edit: Typo -need more coffee

[edit on 3/6/2009 by Whisper67]

[edit on 3/6/2009 by Whisper67]

reply to post by Whisper67


Aw! Im sorry Whisper67, I do hope you'll get to watch it.

I decided we needed a little bit of laughs in this thread. We do tend to get very caught up when things are bad.

I think the market is going to do very badly today. I even went out last night and stocked up on more emergency food. Don't know if it will go as far as 500 point though but you never know with these markets anymore.

Anyone have word on General Electric? I heard from a friend they are in huge trouble.

Originally posted by supertrot
Due to personal experience, I can see why Citi is in trouble. I know that my situation is not an isolated case from talking to others in the area. A few years ago I signed a mortgage with Citi to consolidate higher interest personal property loans. At the time I owned my house outright, so I qualified for a no closing cost loan. Their problem is that they own the housing appraisors (which is illegal--appraisors are required to be an unbiased third party). After the appraisor spoke to the loan officer, he valued my home at four times the fair market value. I live in a small economically depressed area with population 2500. For comparison purposes the appraisor used properties forty miles away in a city of 250,000. This did not really bother me I was able to consolidate more loans, shave several points of of interest rates, and lower my monthly payments by 2/3. Unfortunatly, I had to file chapter 7 last fall after losing my job. Now Citi has repossesed a house which, after the real estate market fell, which is roughly worth 1/9th of the money owed aginst it.

Yeah, I know. I have added to the current problem; but, that bank should not have resorted to illegal means just to write more loans. I never envisioned that I would have to default with the salary I was making. I lost my contracting job of 15 years due to lack of construction. I simply could not afford the payments on my new limited income.

Even more absurd than that: a few years ago I was a college student, literally starving, and they were giving free Subway meals to any student who filled out a credit card application. I told them, on the application, that I had no job, no income, and had to pay $375/month rent. They gave me the credit card, with a $2,500 limit. That's just stupid, and they deserve to go under.

I hope your situation improves. For all of our sakes, I hope that things improve.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by theWCH]

reply to post by theWCH


I had a friend who filled out a credit card application and the only requirement was that you have another credit card's information to fill the application with.

reply to post by theWCH

They gave me the credit card, with a $2,500 limit. That's just stupid, and they deserve to go under.

That's exactly what they're still trying to do.

Only, it will be in electronic (digital) form.
Your digital image on YOUR digital check, all centralized and controlled from that center - the NWO ideal Global currency, where each individual will be defined literally by his/her OWN money's weight

No more "universal" money unit.

It is logical.

This way they can turn their simulation of the world into the reality of the world.

Originally posted by Tentickles
Great Im watching CNN and they are talking about the 12 year low. All they can talk about is how Washington isnt doing anything to stop the stock market fall.

C'mon idiots! Dont leave everything upto the government. That just gives them more power over stuff they dont need to be in!

You know I was saying the exact same thing to my husband last night. All these private businesses didn't want too much government interference, rules or regulations. Now they're all running to the government to save them. They seem to want it both ways!

Also, these private companies didn't offer to share their spoils when they were making it good but they want the public to help them out now they're struggling. Again, they want it both ways.

Capitalism shouldn't rely on the government!

I don't know the solution though because the alternative is so many people out of work. How long can governments keep throwing money at this though? Something has to give sooner or later.

By the way, I love coming to this thread each day and reading through the posts. There's some real brilliance in this thread that helps me make sense of stuff that's way over my head. I'm sure there are many other lurkers here for the same reason. Thank you for providing helpful information for us all.

Am I missing something???

The jobs report comes out, and the job market gets worse.....

Yet the Dow and S&P futures go up????

I don't get it.

OK, are we living in an alternate reality here in ATS? I'm seriously losing my mind and close to tears...

The jobs report came out - worse since 1982 and....

The dow futures improved - -22.00
Fox & Friends (this is a stupid fraking show) talking about cheerleaders
CNN talking about Dora the Explorer

Are we the only ones taking things seriously? The spin on all this is unreal!

And Tentickles, maybe my dream wasn't about the day but, about the week ::shrug:: I don't really want to drag that into this thread. We have such a good thing going here. Peeps actually coming here instead of major websites. Bloomberg is going to hire Red & Hx3 =) I just wanted to give it a brief mention as I tend to freak out my husband with my dreams - not something that happens on a daily basis just the occasional oddity and for me, it works to get it out there b4 instead of saying after the fact, oh yeah, I had a dream about that. But again, I don't claim anything... *this is for entertainment purposes only* lmao TY Tent for being such a kind friend indeed ::blows a kiss::

More comic relief: remember Hx3s old avatar? I think he had an endless bag of 'stars' in there! Lucky us! Regarding the comic relief, I saw another thread -something about using old VCRs and marshmellows (?) again I couldn't watch the video but someone mentioned on ATS we should have a humor folder. And I think it should be on ATS not BTS. I myself become so overwhelmed after hours on end and it would be a nice decompressor.

Now dow futures up! +33. okies...the market likes unemployment?
omgs! "this is cnn breaking news" mentions the jobs report then....back to the Chris Brown story. ::blinks::

ATS needs a live cable show so we can give people the 'real deal' Wouldn't that be an awesome station?!

The PR campaign for bank nationalization has begun with the indymac take over::::

www.time.com...

Bank Nationalizations: Why They Might Work

IndyMac will soon earn the first half of its name back. The government, which seized the failed bank last summer, is expected to close a deal in the next week that would return the California mortgage lender to private ownership. For IndyMac, the deal means independence in less than eight months. For the government, the IndyMac sale provides a shining example that takeovers can work at a time when the Obama administration may soon begin pushing for more nationalizations.
"The fact that the government ownership of IndyMac is coming to an end in just eight months is successful," says Kevin Stein, a former associate director of resolutions at the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and an investment banker at FBR Capital Markets. "Nationalization is a tool that has been used in the past and can be effective in the future in certain situations."

Well well well I thought we weren't nationalizing anything???? But it would seem we have indeed been doing so and just didn't say anything till we could prove that we could take a itty bitty company like Indy and turn it around!

Originally posted by BostonBill99
Am I missing something???

The jobs report comes out, and the job market gets worse.....

Yet the Dow and S&P futures go up????

I don't get it.

The system has become too complex to have a one on one correlation to any specific statistic. It is a huge part of this problem.

Originally posted by uplander
Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd is moving to allow the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to temporarily borrow as much as $500 billion from the Treasury Department.

Errr...wasn't the thinking last night, that this would cause dislocation of the bond market?

Or did I imagine all of that?