The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread, page 601

reply to post by Vitchilo

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Letting Lehman fail.

That is on Paulson. Would we have still "crashed"? Probably, but as hard with so many consequences following? No, according to a lot of professionals I have contact with that are a lot smarter than I.

EDIT: Dont forget about Greenspan in early 2000's with him lowering rates relentlessly. That was a major factor as well many would agree on.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by GreenBicMan]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Greeks plan 4 days of defiance starting today

reply to post by TheCoffinman

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As well as Icelanders... they say no to bubbles.

U.S. credit default swaps currently trade in euros. After all, if the U.S. defaults, who will want payment in devalued U.S. dollars? The euro recently weakened relative to the dollar, and market participants are calling for contracts that require payment in gold. If they get their way, speculators on the winning side of a price move will demand collateral paid in gold.
The market can create an unlimited number of these contracts very rapidly. The U.S. wouldn't have to ever default to trigger a major disruption in the gold market. Spreads (or prices) on the credit default swaps could simply move based on "news," and demand for gold would soar.
If this speculation drives up the price of gold, and the available gold supply becomes limited, are you willing to post your children as collateral? I am pushing the point so that we put a stop to this before it is too late.

www.marketoracle.co.uk...

There ya go. End game for the fiat casino is being called for by the 'speculators' who short the Debt of corps and nations. They don't want paper anymore, they want REAL money and that's Gold.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

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There ya go. End game for the fiat casino is being called for by the 'speculators' who short the Debt of corps and nations. They don't want paper anymore, they want REAL money and that's Gold.



Don't forget that gold is yellow and stretchy like plastic.

The money-talk is always used as a canvas to cover the ongoing manipulation, which, historically, almost always ends as a war project, consuming people with bare oppression (because there's no money to stimulate them).

As for gold, there was never enough gold to cover all that political manipulation. Nations go to war to "acquire" more gold. That's why gold is so valuable. Gold does not fit into banking idea. Gold is the anti-banking device.

When they start talking about gold and "real" values, pack your coffers and get out of there.

Illinois will have to fire 17.000, YES 17.000 TEACHERS.

That's INSANE. How many schools will be left open after that... two?

Illinois Budget Crisis 2010: Big Cuts Coming For Schools, Police, Child Care

General education spending would fall by about $1.4 billion, he said, an 11 percent decrease. The "foundation level" of state support for each child would fall from $6,119 now to about $5,600 next year.

Vaught estimated schools would have to lay off about 17,000 teachers.

That's crazy... That hundreds of schools...

But eh, RECOVERY IS HERE!

[edit on 9-3-2010 by Vitchilo]

Yikes Vitchilo! That's seriously disconcerting.


Meanwhile...

UK banks to face harsher stress tests

An intriguing article, well worth the read (-though I must rush off).

Classic quote:

Do Britain's banks have enough capital to [survive] a second recession? Probably.

Robert Peston, BBC business editor

Oh the reassurance! (And that's MSM.)

And now it's time to RAPE THE SENIORS! After all, they are too old to protest.

Defaulted Loans May Haunt Seniors

A little–noticed law could soon result in smaller Social Security checks for hundreds of thousands of the elderly and disabled who owe the U.S. money from defaulted loans and other debts more than a decade old.

Social Security benefits are off–limits to creditors, such as credit–card companies and banks. But the U.S. can collect debts to federal agencies by "offsetting," or withholding Social Security and disability payments.

The Treasury currently withholds benefits of 3.1 million Social Security recipients to recover defaulted student–, farm– and small–business loans, unpaid income taxes, amounts veterans owe for health care, and other debts to the government.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The US government recorded a budget deficit of $221bn (£147.6bn) in February - the largest monthly deficit in its history.

The total deficit since the beginning of the fiscal year in October now stands at $651.6bn, the figures from the US treasury show.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner called the deficit "unsustainable".

However, he maintained that running the deficit was helping the US continue its recovery from the recession in the short-term.

Like the UK, the US is suffering from a fall in tax receipts due to tough economic conditions, while relying on increased spending to drive the recovery.

But analysts called the figures "frightening".

Another big news in the ``school`` department...

Kansas City will close almost HALF of their schools.

Here

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - The Kansas City school board narrowly approved a plan Wednesday night to close nearly half of the district's schools in a desperate bid to avoid a potential bankruptcy.

The board voted 5-4 after parents and community leaders made final pleas to spare the schools even as the beleaguered district seeks to erase a projected $50 million budget shortfall. The approved plan calls for shuttering 29 of 61 schools — a striking amount even as public school closures rise nationwide while the recession eats away at academic budgets.

What are those kids gonna do? And the parents?

Maybe they should just have declared bankruptcy and asked for a bailout from the feds or the state.

This is getting BAD. And people are saying it's recovery, BULLSHIAT. PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING OUT THERE AND YOU'RE SAYING IT'S A RECOVERY, SCREW YOU, YOU NEED YOUR ASS KICKED!!!!!!!!

[edit on 10-3-2010 by Vitchilo]

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire

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Patience, my young padawan, patience...


US retail sales rise boosts recovery hopes

US retail sales showed a surprise rise in February as consumers braved extreme bad weather to get to the shops.

The US Commerce Department said retail sales rose 0.3% last month, whereas forecasts had predicted a fall of 0.2%.

The rise, the biggest since November, fuelled hopes that economic recovery is gaining momentum and helped to boost shares on Wall Street...

Source

www.abovetopsecret.com...

National Strike in Italy, UK to see several strikes over the coming weeks

Lookin gloomy in greece....
uk.reuters.com...

Greece's economy will shrink more than the government is forecasting this year, its central bank governor said, while the European Commission produced an even bleaker prognosis for the debt-laden country.

www.reuters.com...:s0:a49:g43:r1:c0.250000:b31840922:z0

Financial markets are gripped by the role derivatives have played in Greece's debt crisis, but Italy also has a derivatives time bomb, and hundreds of cities are in the 24 billion euro blast zone.

www.reuters.com...

U.S. states and cities may increasingly turn to deficit borrowing to deal with still sagging tax revenue and the pending loss of federal stimulus money.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by TheCoffinman]

Now we have a FDIC Fail Thursday & Friday!

www.fdic.gov...

Statewide Bank Covington LA 29561 March 12, 2010

The FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) will be $38.1 million. Home Bank's acquisition of all the deposits was the "least costly" resolution for the FDIC's DIF compared to all alternatives. Statewide Bank is the 30th FDIC-insured institution to fail in the nation this year, and the first in Louisiana. The last FDIC-insured institution closed in the state was The Farmers Bank & Trust of Cheneyville, Cheneyville, December 17, 2002.

Old Southern Bank Orlando FL 58182 March 12, 2010

The FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) will be $94.6 million. Centennial Bank's acquisition of all the deposits was the "least costly" resolution for the FDIC's DIF compared to all alternatives. Old Southern Bank is the 29th FDIC-insured institution to fail in the nation this year, and the fourth in Florida. The last FDIC-insured institution closed in the state was Marco Community Bank, Marco Island, February 19, 2010.

The Park Avenue Bank New York NY 27096 March 12, 2010

As part of this transaction, the FDIC will acquire a cash appreciation instrument. The FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) will be $50.7 million. Valley National Bank's acquisition of all the deposits was the "least costly" resolution for the FDIC's DIF compared to all alternatives. The Park Avenue Bank is the 28th FDIC-insured institution to fail in the nation this year, and the second in New York. The last FDIC-insured institution closed in the state was LibertyPointe Bank, New, York, New York, on March 11, 2010.

LibertyPointe Bank New York NY 58071 March 11, 2010

The FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) will be $24.8 million. Valley National Bank's acquisition of all the deposits was the "least costly" resolution for the FDIC's DIF compared to all alternatives. LibertyPointe Bank is the 27th FDIC-insured institution to fail in the nation this year, and the first in New York. The last FDIC-insured institution closed in the state was Waterford Village Bank, Williamsville, July 24, 2009.

[edit on 3/12/2010 by Hx3_1963]

Two things I want to share with you trader guys...

First, the sick-O-matic $500 bill from 1918 with the crucifixion on the back. There are two examples for you to view, and in high resolution also! That is truly gnarly to the power of infinity. I think I must get one of those some day. Incredible.

Second, dreamtime.... last week a friend of mine who is always thinking Euro/Dollar told me he had a dream about a really old looking balloon, something that looked out of place and out of time, like a totally anachronistic balloon in his dream. He said it was golden and had three cords underneath it holding a Lucky-Charms-looking golden pot. Can you picture this? In his dream he got into the pot and it started going up, up and away. So I told him I thought it meant that the balloon from the ''old world'' was the Euro and it was about to take off. He got a big laugh out of that. And sure enough he bought the Euro and it has been up ever since. Another friend of ours was there and he didn't have an opinion about this balloon dream. Anyway, the Euro trader got into the golden pot and into a good Euro trade. Good so far. He had only mentioned that dream after I first told him about my dream, and the way he mentioned it was as if he had really forgotten about it and then was just reminded by me telling him about my dream. I don't think he made it up. I think it was real, and he didn't grasp the significance of it until I started talking about interpreting its meaning.

I'm always thinking about the U.S. stock market so my dream was naturally about the stocks. I was walking uphill towards a house. It was one of those places that has steps leading up to a front porch and then a step up into the building. Inside there were a couple people and a dog and a cat. The people were going to take their dog outside and I was going to follow them outside when I noticed there was an open window. I had a thought that the cat might jump out the window if nobody was there watching it, so instead of closing the window I put the cat on a leash and tied the other end of the leash to a table leg. We all went outside and when I looked back at the house I saw that the mischievous cat had sure enough jumped out of the window, down to the porch, then over the railing down to the ground and then continuing down the sloping front yard. When the leash ran out, the cat had that cartoon cat strangling look on his face and yet was still trying to go further downhill. The cat had actually gotten his hind legs on an overturned curbside recycling container and was standing up on that green plastic container waving his front paws in the air making that strangling cat look on his face. I figured I was to blame for the cat's predicament since I put the leash on him, so I started to walk over to the cat to help him. The cat started moving away from me, back up the yard towards the house, and I heard a voice behind me say ''put it back in the box''. I kept moving towards the cat, but he kept moving away and he scrambled up and over the railing onto the porch. Eventually I reached him and bent down to take the leash off and the dream ended just as I was pondering what ''the box'' meant. Was it the house? The recycling container? What was it?

Neither of my friends had any interpretation of the dream, though one mentioned ''letting the cat out of the bag'' and asked me if I was sure I had recalled the voice correctly. I said yes, the voice told me to ''put it back in the box''.

There wasn't a bag in the dream, but my friend's question made me think about ''the bag'' and ''the box'' as they are used in common speech. You always hear about a bag of cash, right? And shorting the box when you own a stock and you sell short without letting go of the stock that is locked in the box at the brokerage house supposedly. So my mind was going around and around trying to understand this odd dream. I figured that the cat was the market and it was wanting to run downhill. I had interfered with it by putting the leash on it. The leash was strangling it. It danced on the overturned curbside ''box'' a little bit and then ran back uphill. It left me thinking that I could feel safe with my short positioning and that the market was about to jump out that window.

However, of course I second guess all the time, this stock trading being a psychological issue to wrestle with constantly. I started thinking that I had messed up by taking the stocks out of ''the box'' and ''selling'' them (even though I have actually bought an ETF) and that I was setting myself up for failure by strangling my cash cat which is the reverse ETF I bought. I haven't sold on margin. I've actually bought something. Of course that ETF is ''in the box'' so it all becomes incredibly difficult to interpret the command to ''put it back in the box''. I fear that my subconscious is telling me to get back long in the market, to buy shares and ''put it back in the box'' instead of selling or attempting to get a short position.

And the market keeps creeping higher.

I'm still holding those three reverse ETFs and I'm hoping the cat is the market. I'm hoping the cat is headed downhill and then it will dance on the box and turn around and run back up again. I'm hoping that the command to put it back in the box is actually a subconscious attempt to strengthen my resolve and keep me bought in the reverse ETF position instead of chickening out and selling and going to cash. I think I'm being told to keep the reverses ETFs and let that cat run downhill.

Oh and another thing. A couple days ago an odd man that smelled of alcohol got in my face on the sidewalk and started telling me stuff about being in the military and other stuff. He was standing really close to me and kept telling me ''if it doesn't look right, keep going''. This guy was carrying on about this, that, and the other and told me probably three times ''if it doesn't look right, just keep going''. Weird.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire

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Wow, you're really into the symbolism thing! While I'm always looking for 'coincidences' that might speak to a higher purpose, I've noticed that most dreams are the product of the the brains 'disk cleanup' and 'defragmentation' programs. Useless or redundant information must be removed on a daily basis or our mind would be overwhelmed.

Our cognitive abilities are truly amazing. The amount of information the brain can take in in mere seconds is phenomenal. But, that means that much of that information must be removed daily in order to continue functioning properly. Just go without sleep for a couple days and you will see the effects quite clearly. That's not to say that something might not be revealed in dreams, but one has to wonder if it's related to past trauma, feelings, old memories, etc, jumbled together with redundancies from the previous day all being picked out and removed in order to make room for the coming days events.

As to the market, my personal opinion is that forward or reverse etf's, red or black on the roulette wheel. The wheel still belongs to the House and you would be paid in their chips. What if their chips are declining in value while you play? What if you win a million in their chips and when you get to the 'cash out' window you find that that million will buy a hamburger out on the street? It would seem like a whole lot of wasted time at that point.

Unfortunately, that is exactly what many of the baby boomers are waking up to. Social Security supposedly indexed to inflation, except the gov't games the numbers to show no inflation. 401k's in inflation adjusted terms an absolute joke. Everything must be put under the inflation adjusted microscope, otherwise they just keep changed the measuring stick a little everyday and duping the sheeple into serfdom.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire

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I have a prophecy too my friend

BGZ will be your downfall, it is not too late to reverse course, although I am thinking we only have about 100-150 more SP500 points until we hit rangebound city for the next couple of years.

This will slow down eventually, you're very correct old friend, but as you know the market can remain irrational much longer than you are solvent

Dont make my old mistakes

And it's getting more interesting.

EU denies Greece bailout deal

The euro zone has not agreed a deal on financial support for heavily indebted Greece, but technical work is continuing and the Commission stands ready to act if need be, a spokesman said today.

Asked whether the 16 euro zone members had reached a deal on financial support for Greece, European Commission spokesman Jonathan Todd said: "The Commission stands ready to act if necessary. Technical work is ongoing and has not yet been concluded.

All the rest is speculation." Britain's Guardian newspaper on Saturday quoted an unnamed senior European Commission official saying euro zone members had agreed on "coordinated bilateral contributions" in the form of loans or loan guarantees if Greece asks the EU for help.

In its report, the Guardian claimed the 16 euro zone members had agreed on "co-ordinated bilateral contributions" in the form of loans or loan guarantees to Greece if Athens is unable to refinance its debts and asks the European Union for help.

The agreement was reached despite strong resistance by Germany, and Berlin has played the pivotal role in organising the deal, the paper quoted other sources as saying.

Euro zone finance ministers will finalise the package on Monday, the paper said.

The aid to be made available by the bailout could reach €25 billion, the paper quoted its sources as saying. Greece's borrowing needs for the whole of 2010 total €53.2 billion.

Greece, labouring under a crippling debt burden, announced a €4.8 billion package of austerity measures last week designed to reduce its budget deficit to 8.7 per cent of GDP this year from 12.7 per cent in 2009.

It has been paying a high premium over benchmark European bonds to raise funds, the yield spread of 10-year Greek government paper over bunds topping 400 basis points in January.

The bailout "will be a coordinated approach of bilateral contributions . . . a bilateral contribution can be a loan or a loan guarantee. The guarantees will facilitate the kind of funds potentially needed in this context," the paper quoted the senior commission official as saying.

The agreement has been tailored to avoid breaking the ban, in the rules governing the operation of the euro currency, on a bailout for a country on the brink of bankruptcy, and to avoid a challenge by Germany's supreme court, the official addded.

From the things I read, there's about one week for funds left until they go bankrupt and have to close the government.

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