The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


Probably depends on where they are sitting when the mkt is falling. Depends what the set up is, if they can be short etc..

Most HF Managers I am guessing always are holding short positions, so they still win haha -

"The best way to earn 1 million in the mkt my friend is to start with 2 million", so they say, but I think its a good statement generalizing how professionals work

I dont understand how the market keeps rising. Everything around here is drying up. All the companies who took their last chance when they were told everything was looking up, are now having to close their doors or making their final budget cuts praying they can hold on till the end. All funds have dried up. No bills are being paid. How the hell is the dow up over 10,000? Everything being bought now is on left over credit or the last bit of savings.

This is sad to watch. It is like watching a person max out their cards to play slots. In hopes that this time they will get it all back.

I understand that companies dont want to lay people off before Christmas. All that means is that everyone willlbe screwed on December 26. Not only will they be out jobs but they will have maxed out their credit in hopes of paying it all off after the holidays.

Pardon my ranting. I am watching everything come crashing down in slow motion. Its hard. There is nothing I can do. No matter what I say, people wont listen. Just like they didnt listen the last time when I said it was going to crash. I understand the truth sucks and living in an illusion is a lot more joyous. So, Im not going to waste my breath this time. People see that market go up and assume everything is ok. I dont know why its going up. Perhaps because it is the holidays.

It is easier to believe that there is a little monkey who decides what number the dow should be on any given day. Today the monkey likes the green button.

Here is a rundown for how things will happen if they have not already. First your employer will let you know that they can no longer match your 401K. Then you will get a paycheck with a lot less money. That will happen when your company goes to renew your health insurance. Insurance has gone up 40% this year. Usually in the past they would just switch to an different company to avoid those costs. Not this year. Insurance companies are not offereing discounts right now. You could get pissy and insist your company pays or you quit, but jobs arent very easy to come by right now, and the employer will more than likely see you quitting as a relief. After that you get to choose being unemployed or work for less $$. Granted you cant make it off less $$ but less money is better than risking not having any income at all.

Sorry, I'll stop now.

reply to post by mrsdudara


The stock market has been going up because of inflation. The first place inflationary dollars printed for banks show up is the Casino (Stock Market). The Banks became gambling addicts after playing OTC Derivatives and getting handsomely rewarded. It really is no surprise that they use our money that was gifted to them via the printing press to return to the tables.

Problem is we gave them everything the country could spare, and alot we couldn't, to get them out of the last jam. So we either print, print, print, or face the music. And ain't no one in gov't gonna face the music.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


Oh, I hear you.

Problem is someone has to face the music. You're right though, the govt. is not going to. So I suppose that leaves us hunh? What exactly would that entail? I can not, for the life of me, figure out how this thing is supposed to turn around.

reply to post by mrsdudara


I tend to agree with George Celente, a trend watcher who accurately predicted alot of past events. As we move closer to a default on our growing debt, tensions are going to start exploding both at home and abroad. He thinks that they (govt) will take us into a war.

Oh, that's right, we're already fighting a couple. So, another war then. I also agree with Williams over at Shadow Government Statistics that Hyperinflation is baked in the cake at this point. Which means a total default on our debts to other countries via dollar destruction. Which in turn causes more saber rattling and such. Let's just hope that they (china) don't take us reneging on a couple Trillion too seriously or things could get really ugly.

Of course if Iran is the target and they successfully disrupt the oil supply, $10-12 gallon gas could happen overnight. Which would speed things up with the economic troubles here at home.

I have to admit I was right there with that war theory for a long time. I am not so sure anymore. It would have to be worse than WWII, a lot less expensive, and only fought between a few people. We have no money, no credit, no trust, and no one willing to fight for the government except the government itself.

Dow closed at 10,390 and the Futures are at 10,390 (-1) 3:23 AM EST.
Nobody knows what to do. It is so finely balanced right now it has to tip over and fall down.
How can it do otherwise?

Hey, you eyes guys, get outa here!

It's freaky

Dow Futures -60.00 @ 10331.00 [6:41am EST]

Last week's Dow opened 10,296, closed 10,388.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire



7:34 AM, 8 Dec '09, DOW futures -84


but that's just market fluxuation...its not a judgement of the economy or the USD

(just look how Gold 'recovered' from an hours earlier -64 down trend
to near break even at market close in the USA)

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
Dow closed at 10,390 and the Futures are at 10,390 (-1) 3:23 AM EST.
Nobody knows what to do. It is so finely balanced right now it has to tip over and fall down.
How can it do otherwise?

I'm thinking that the markets will stay flat for another week. I was skeptical that this rally would get us much over 10,000 (with a cap at 10,500) but it has done so quite handily. One of two things are ready to happen:
1. The next leg down in this double-dip comes in before Christmas but does not accelerate until late January.
2. Inflation really takes hold, keeping the markets up but causing unrest so Govt will need a distraction (war).

I have no clue which way it will go. Things are so irrational now... you have a market that goes up because businesses are running leaner and more efficient but that means high unemployment which means less consumers and those are the ones that keep the businesses in business. And round and round we go.

Here's the latest:

FTSE:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6d9cd880d9b6.png[/atsimg]


5223.13 at close, down 87.53 (-1.65%)



DOW:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/78c300103506.png[/atsimg]


10291.86 down 98.25 (-0.95%)

Source


Checkout the impact of the Dubai crisis on the Royal Bank of Scotland:

30.45p down 2.55 (-7.73%)


Sell haggis...

reply to post by pause4thought


long time no see my friend

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


right on.

seems the market is more of an indicator of people playing games than anything else. Shorting seems to be the game of the day, and I believe people are merely being suckered in.... the numbers are being inflated so once again, banks and others in the know can play the downside to their advantage - ala goldman sachs and the housing bubble.

(quick reference to great article most of you read, i imagine)

www.rollingstone.com...



Government's own reports contradict their public face...

www.moneyandmarkets.com...



Yes folks, with US debts and obligations totaling roughly the combined global GDP, the stimulus package is really just opening up a new line of credit with foreign investors in order to fund the retirement entitlement programs due to the baby boomers, and relying on the next generation to pay it back. Meanwhile, massive taxes and cutbacks will be the only way to stave of a total systems failure. This will not be good for the economy. The next generation will be digging their way out of a very deep hole, and they may just never make it out. Our lofty imperial status is unsustainable, just like such status always has been.






[edit on 8-12-2009 by TrueTruth]

[edit on 8-12-2009 by TrueTruth]

[edit on 8-12-2009 by TrueTruth]

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by pause4thought

 

long time no see my friend

You were posting so often I could no longer take the optimism. It was so mind-blowing it led to a major psychosis.



Encouraged by the return of the Realists (not to mention the above reports by TrueTruth) I find my equilibrium returning.

So gently does it...

reply to post by pause4thought


Don't let me lull you out of your bear den. When you wake from hibernation next I hope it makes you dizzy haha - stay safe

If everything is going down - what is going up?

Dollar

Last trade 76.234 Change +0.467 (+0.60%)

quotes.ino.com...

reply to post by mrsdudara

Problem is someone has to face the music

We already are.. sinking Dollar, job losses, a pessimistic air over the entire economy, reduced spending, loosing our homes, loosing our "American Dream"..

Capital (which is the fuel for the Stock Market) comes from many places. It comes from Corporations investing in other corporations. It comes from our 401ks, IRA's, Pensions, Mutual Funds etc. It can come from Investors, day traders, but mostly from big funds, from investment institutions like Goldman Sachs. And it can come from the Government.

The market has a huge influx of Capital, but the Capital did not come from once primary sources such as retirement accounts or long term investment accounts funded by the likes of you and I. It came from the Government, and through the Government also mega institutions like Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Citi etc.. Every bank that received public funds pumped hundreds of billions into the markets, reaped profits on the way up, paid back the debt with little to no interest and reaped the profits. The profits are now still fueling the fire of the market.. it's mega inflation at such a concentrated level of the economy it's never been seen before in history.

But just because the Markets rise, does NOT mean the economy is better, and it does not bode well for you and I. Except perhaps retirement accounts.. but a 50% increase after a 60% loss still leaves 30% not recuperated.

And in these times just because a single corporations stock rises, does not mean it's doing well either.. Many institutions that have seen financial come backs this year are dead, like GM or Citi, investment banks have reaped countless billions from playing their stocks, but they do not preform. More companies than ever, since the Great Depression, are lowering or erasing stock dividends (market share of profit) simply because there are no profits.

And to answer your question "how do we turn this around" .... we don't. Because we have no new industry. The Government and the ignorant "Green" politicians/business leaders thought Green Technology would be our saving grace.. but to hire one Green job is to cut 10 "dirty" jobs. Combine that with the fact that due to our pathetic education system many companies cannot find Americans worth the money to do the jobs, and thus hire folks from over seas like India and China to come over and do the jobs.

If America cannot produce, it cannot exist. The economic turnaround is IMPOSSIBLE without some form of wealth creation. Building roads, bridges and windmills do not produce wealth, it's the government paying people to tax them, then pretend they made a profit. In short, it's a ponzi scheme.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Want to know what's really scary??? all this was predicted way back in 1972

In 1972, the Club of Rome think tank published its book The Limits to Growth It was based on a computer model called World3, which estimated how the increasing human population, and continuing economic growth, would affect the world.

The book predicted that the 21st century would see mass starvation and economic collapse, as humanity exhausted natural resources. The book was roundly slammed by many economists, with particular criticism directed towards the nature of the modelling.

But a study in 2008 showed that the book's predictions of changes in industrial production, food production and pollution had been largely correct: the world is, on the whole, following the course predicted by the "business as usual" version of the World3 model which assumed that our technological capabilities were going to grow at roughly the same rate they had before. if that model follows it course things are going to get very bad very soon!

you can read the report here

reply to post by Rockpuck


Well said....
i still don't understand how you (among a few others) have the drive to
explain in 'exhaustive fashion'... what is apparent to most of us on the board.

OK... i 'Star' you...appreciate the patience you are full of