The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by marg6043


It looks ugly
FUTURES
VALUE CHANGE % CHANGE
Dow 10,232.00 -210.00 -2.01
S&P 500 1,080.20 -28.70 -2.59
NASDAQ 100 1,750.75 -43.50 -2.42
S&P/TSX 60 672.70 -6.00 -0.88
Mexico Bolsa 30,453.00 -943.00 -3.00
Brazil Bovespa 66,080.00 -537.00 -0.81

but its a false ugly... the markets is on a half day today most of these sell orders have been stacked up since Wed evening when we first got the news...

what is interesting to watch is how fast investors are bailing out of gold and flocking to the safety of the good ole US dollar!

In terms of stats,today means nothing just a blip on the screens... monday will set the tone for the rest of the year

Yep! I been watching all (but one) fall of mine, I was thinking WTF!!


Oh well, its only money

Wow. Gold swoons. Dubai spreads bad news. People are looking at the Dollar. Folks say the Dollar and the Stock Market are linked. Hmmmmm. Interesting timing.

what is interesting to watch is how fast investors are bailing out of gold and flocking to the safety of the good ole US dollar!

reply to post by DaddyBare


Currently 74.86 on the dollar and $1176 on gold. Those numbers don't deviate much from what we've seen recently. Where are you seeing this 'flocking fast out of gold and into the dollar'?

C'mon Monday, I can hardly wait...



www.youtube.com...

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


He was speaking about earlier in the day.

Rough times globally/unknown certainty = US DOLLAR RISE

When the US DOLLAR RISES = COMMODITIES FALL

US DOLLAR = SAFEHAVEN IN TIMES OF TROUBLE = EQUITIES FALL BC OF RISK TRADE

When the overreation occured late last night the dollar rose because it is considered the safest thing on the planet. Many would lead you of course not to believe this, but it is the truth.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Not anymore it isn't. That's why the effects were temporary. They only reflect the movements of panicked herds of sheep in the US.

Gold has the Beijing Put under it, thus the stair step pattern of late. All price drops will be used to pick up more real money (gold). They're not interested in americas debt anymore.

I think you're viewing things from 'the way it used to be'. America's Debt is by no means the 'safest thing around'. We need to be Learner's, not Learn(ed). Change is the only constant.

Russian federal reserve agency assassinated in Russia...

Sign of the times?

St. Petersburg Governor Valentina Matviyenko officially confirmed that Sergei Tarasov, the board chairman of the Russian Federal Road Agency (Rosavtodor) and a former Federation Council member representing St. Petersburg, and Russian Federal Reserve Agency (Rosreserve) chief Boris Yevstratikov were killed in the crash of the Nevsky Express train on the evening of November 27.

And this was a ``inside job`` terrorist attack?

Black Friday numbers are probably worse than last year from the reports of people on the ground I've seen...

Climategate will hurt Al Gore business... hopefully..

Commercial real estate in big trouble

FDIC reports biggest drop for business loans since it's creation..

And Bob Chapman is saying that 2035 banks are in trouble, not 535... the FDIC is several billions in the hole.. The whole system need another 1 trillion bailout...

All those recovery signs...

[edit on 28-11-2009 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
reply to post by GreenBicMan

 

Not anymore it isn't. That's why the effects were temporary. They only reflect the movements of panicked herds of sheep in the US.

Gold has the Beijing Put under it, thus the stair step pattern of late. All price drops will be used to pick up more real money (gold). They're not interested in americas debt anymore.

I think you're viewing things from 'the way it used to be'. America's Debt is by no means the 'safest thing around'. We need to be Learner's, not Learn(ed). Change is the only constant.

Sorry, you are so wrong. Not being mean, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

See earlier this year when the dollar soared and equities tanked. You are way off base, sorry again, not being mean, but you don't really have an understanding.

We sell our debt like hotcakes. And we will continue to as it is good for the rest of the world as well. Our dollar is a safehaven in times of trouble, that is why it SPIKED, then went back down after Dubai was stated a bit overkill. If you would like to drag this into a bigger debate, I would be more than happy to.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Why don't you begin by explaining what is so attractive about the dollar as an investment? And what exactly does the dollar represent?

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


Sure..I'll explain again

Dollar = Stability in unstable times

Reference earlier this year when the dollar soared

Also reference situation when Dubai was a bit overstated and the dollar once again took off.

Example

Country or large hedge fund needs to unload 1.5 billion dollars for 5 years..

--Where do you think they will go?? Citi? BAC?

Nope - why do that when we can unload 1.5 billion dollars a 5x the savings rate at a bank when the USA has NEVER missed a payment and ALWAYS paid on time?

The dollar and our debt represent FULL FAITH AND CREDIT of the USA GOVT and ON THIS PLANET - it is the safest thing around currently.

Hopefully this clears things up.

Where do you think they will go?? Citi? BAC?

reply to post by GreenBicMan


No, they are going into Gold and other commodities. That's what our former Creditors are doing, plain and simple.

A safe asset is something that is not based on the promises of a nation in the midst of fiscal distaster. 100 Trillion in liabilities to SS, MCR, MCD, etc, with the Boomers retiring bringing those liabilities on balance sheet more every day. Housing, ie, FHA, Fannie, Freddie, Ginnie, defacto nationalized and bleeding profusely. So throw in a few more Trillion. National Debt cap hit AGAIN, what is that 3 times in two years at a Trillion each occurence? So that's currently 12 Trillion, approaching 100% of GDP. Add to that the 12 Trillion of guarantees propping up the markets and you might as well say they've been nationalized. Not to mention the Fed's balance sheet bloated to twice its size in 2 years to 2 Trillion in garbage.

Of course there is the commercial real estate problem, the Option ARM/Agency/ Alt-A, et al; reset wave. Throw in multi Trillion - multi Front Wars and you're looking at a real safe investment there.

As far as americas never missing a payment, have you ever read a prospectus? 'Past performance is not indicative of future performance', you know that part? I'm sure that out of the record numbers of bankruptcies every month, there are many who NEVER missed a payment, right up until they missed them all!

See, because america is the sum of its parts. You cannot have 25% of the population out of work or unable to work full time and have a strengthening economy and dollar. Take U6, then take out Birth/Death games and that's the real unemployment rate. 543,000 for this month if you take out the 'seasonal' gaming of the numbers.

There are 10 states that are in deep do-do like California. So 20% of the Union. 25% of all homes in the US in negative equity before the above mentioned resets begin. Sum of its parts. You cannot print your way to prosperity, it's all been done before.

You're counting on Fear to Force someone to prop up our currency one-more-time. The problem is that people Learn when they get taken in. Don't count on them coming back for seconds.

Oh, and the banks who own the Fed, have 200 Trillion in Derivatives on balance sheet tied to real estate and interest rates. Where do you think they'll get the money to cover those bets as real estate prices continue to fall and interest rates are forced to rise? Wake up man!

ps If you need some advice on creating positive cash flow so you can venture out of your parents place, let me know. I'll educate you on the basics and we'll go from there.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


No.. and it isnt like gold is the best commodity even out there right now as in terms of % gain this year.

You cannot say the dollar is not a safehaven. That is totally incorrect. I'm sorry, that is just not the way it is.

But the formula is simple.

When the risk appetite INCREASES = EQUITIES HIGHER = DOLLAR LOWER = COMMODITIES HIGHER

When the risk appetite decreases (crisis) = DOLLAR HIGHER = EQUITIES LOWER = COMMODITIES LOWER (most/usually)

This has happened about 1000x times historically, so I do not know why you are arguing this. Its a fact, no matter what game is being played right now. Im not saying gold cannot take off, even though it is overbought right now, the trade will continue:

1) Equities move higher in the meantime, the dollar will move lower and commodities will move higher.

2) For the time being, (bc of dubai) US EQUITIES MAY MOVE lower while $ moves higher - or even we MIGHT get a DOLLAR HIGHER AND EQUITIES HIGHER becasuse of the flight to QUALITY (US DOLLAR) - and out of european banks = dubai sector - US WILL NOT BE HURT like EUROPE bc of DUBAI - we actually have quite clean hands in this matter and most of the burden will be put on Europe in this case.

What I state is the absolute way it is, I have been proven correct over the past 7 months on this thread, its amazing, everything I have said has basically come true,I really do know what I am talking about, I promise.

BTW, I have probably had (before I lost it all in a bonehead move) more on the line in one trade than you would prob. dream. Please, dont pretend like you have any sort of mkt intelligence, especially with what you have previously stated about the US DOLLAR, it makes you look foolish at best.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Bone-head moves seem to be your calling card. I simply don't have time to baby sit. If I did I would watch my kids so my wife could go shopping. Fact is I'm busy putting 'sweat equity', something you probably don't understand, into our home and don't have time to get down in the mud with an adolescent sitting in mom and dads basement somewhere.

So by all means, cling to your beliefs of yesteryear. It really makes zero difference to me. I've dealt with people like you on this board before. Before the last financial debacle. They all seem to pull a disappearing act when things go south, so it's just a waste of my time talking to you. I'm off to pick up more truss and beam and will not return to entertain you until at least this evening. Get out and get some fresh air before you turn into a mushroom!

sorry i let my mouth get out in front of me

you are entitled to your own opinion

ill leave it at that my friend

YEAH!!! That's the spirit!

Just BUY some BGZ for crying out loud and make some money.

BicMan, you got a stock brokerage account? Buy some BGZ. Have a little faith in the system.

''It's Christmas time and shopping means profits'' is a dummy move.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


im tapped brother - working on my own hedge fund in fact - algo trading with money manger - but am having some problems with my thyroid i still cant figure out so most of that is all on hold

im still hugely bullish on WMT though - if anyone has been paying attn. that is

What are you doing up so early?

CNN has been running this ''Early Gains For Stocks'' article for hours.... and now the futures are down diggidy down. So much for the CNN interns.

Look. I've seen it all. I've seen the chart patterns and the mathematical indicators and the fundamental tail chasers and the Westminster dog trotting deep thought feel gooders. It Is A Scam.

Two sides.... Scammers and Scammed.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


Futures are responding to Europe

Like i said EUROPE WILL TAKE THE BRUNT OF THIS DUBAI DEBACLE (even if overstated) this is dragging our futures contracts down with it for the time being in this thinly traded market at 5:30am

What am I doing up? Just another visit to the Dr in a couple hours lol - hopefully one of my last

[edit on 30-11-2009 by GreenBicMan]

I love lurking in this thread because even arguments are usually more right than wrong.

GBM is indeed correct with the general understanding of the dollar. From what I have been seeing while lurking this thread for a year or so is that GBM is rather 'conventional' and that leads to him being right more often than not. (Hope you feel better too)

HWHAE on the other hand is also right. The USD is slipping and will fall out of favor eventually. How long has the USD been on the global scene? Do we expect it to last forever or is there a general cycle or lifespan of a currency? Some questions to ponder, and maybe reading some cycle theory (Martin Armstrong) helps answer some questions.

The problem is that the USD will not fall out of favor overnight. I think it will be a long gradual process and we have already seen some evidence of it beginning. That does not mean it will not continue to act as it has conventionally acted - at least for the next 6 months or more.

So both GBM and HWHAE are right to some degree even though they disagree. Many see the transition that lays ahead while others would rather stick with the proven technicals. Right now both are right. The technicals are still working but anybody with half a brain knows that a country that does not make anything except war and debt is not going to prosper much longer.

Personally, I would be wary of any long term USD. I think about it like a business, I do not invest in a business which is bleeding money, closed books, and has terrible management. As such, I would not like to invest in the USD because of the same.