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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by stander
 


Net Worth = 4 Billion

Looks like someone didnt graduate Wharton hmmhmhmm (old rich person laugh)



Jazz musician's son executed first trade at age 12. Studied finance at Long Island U., went to work in commodities division of Merrill Lynch 1972. Harvard M.B.A. 1973. Traded futures at brokerage CBWL-Hayden Stone; left after feud with boss. Founded money management and hedge fund outfit Bridgewater Associates 1975; investment firm claims 13% annual returns after fees. Assets under management: $165 billion. Shuns public markets: "The notion of selling hedge funds is ridiculous." Young employees routinely asked to critique upper-level management.


Learn . . .


Today, a hedge fund investing billions using a quantitative formula can stall a stock; a couple of hedge funds aligned can turn a profitable company into a Dow laggard. Toss in a few short sellers and you have the great Wall Street collapse of September 2008.

It wasn't always this way. Before the machines and the shorts took over Wall Street, stocks were evaluated by an underlying company's prospects. Buy-and-hold investing ruled the day. Investors such as Warren Buffett and Bill Miller were the models.

Those fellows are a far cry from this generation's masters of the universe. Traders are in charge now. They rule the market. They dominate volume. That stock you bought because you thought the company was in good shape? It's a pawn in the hands of a computer model or some supertrader like Steven Cohen at SAC Capital Partners or Bridgewater Associates' Ray Dalio.

To move a security, they don't need to own it. They can have a short position. They can put an order to sell 1 million shares in a dark pool, those anonymous marketplaces that operate outside the walls of the exchanges. They can own options or futures contracts. Buy enough GM puts and watch the price begin to fall under the pressure.




posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty
Oh Boy, things are getting so very interesting...

Belgium has announced that it intends to sell $1 Billion in 5 YR USD Denominated Bonds.

People trying to get away from the dollar???



Let me see if I got this straight. YOu are saying Belgium is selling it own bonds or U.S. gov bonds?



posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


It's something that came across the new wires, I'm waiting for a full story to post the link.

It's *probably* their own bonds, but denominated in USD, but I can't be sure yet. The EIB is also looking to a 3yr USD denominated Bond as a benchmark offering

Link to EIB offering mention is www.fxstreet.com...



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:24 AM
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You can't get away from the dollar by selling U.S. bonds.
You're going to get dollars.

They'll probably buy U.S. stocks.

America is that nigga the world loves to hate.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by THX-1138
 


not exactly.

If you have USD reserves (and are a sovereign nation) you can issue bonds that you sell for YOUR OWN currency, even though the bonds are DENOMINATED in USD.

This gets real ugly IF and only if the Bonds being sold are actually US Treasuries

ETA: Apparently they already did the sale on 9/8
found buried quietly in here


Belgium sold $1 billion of five-year notes at a yield of 2.92 percent, Bloomberg data show.


[edit on 9/9/09 by redhatty]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by stander
 


Yes, but you never always win, thats the thing, big bets require at least a breakeven/gain

Most over-leveraged firms blew up (like my mart. system) haha

Striking the balance between is so very difficult, thats what I am trying to accomplish now, when I do, I will give you a call from the windy city and bring you up to the owners club box at "The Cell", until then



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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But what if the dollar strengthens and the issuer has to pay interest in more costly dollars? I guess they think the dollar is only going to weaken.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 03:38 AM
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FTSE 100 4,933.21 4:22AM ET Down 14.13 (0.29%)
CAC 40 3,647.9399 4:22AM ET Down 13.02 (0.36%)
DAX 5,462.02 4:22AM ET Down 19.71 (0.36%)



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 04:14 AM
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I like this guy Greenspan.

I think he should go back to school too





"The crisis will happen again but it will be different," he told BBC Two's The Love of Money series.





"They [financial crises] are all different, but they have one fundamental source," he said.

"That is the unquenchable capability of human beings when confronted with long periods of prosperity to presume that it will continue."



Go back to school Mr. Greenspan. You've deserved it!




Speaking a year after the collapse of US investment bank Lehman Brothers, which was followed by a worldwide financial crisis and global recession, Mr Greenspan described the behaviour as "human nature".


I wonder if this has got something to do with the Theory of Evolution?

Back to school Mr. Greenspan...




He said the current crisis was triggered by the trade in US sub-prime mortgages - home loans given to people with bad credit histories - but he added that any factor could have been the catalyst.


So, THAT is the source of the crisis? And everything else is a catalyst... Human nature, right!




If it were not the problem of these toxic debts "something sooner or later would have emerged", Mr Greenspan said.


...from "human nature", of course.

Go back to school Mr. Greenspan.




"The most recent endeavour to re-regulate is a reaction to the crisis. The extraordinary impact of these global markets is making a lot of financial people feeling they have lost control.

"The problem is you cannot have free global trade with highly restrictive, regulated domestic markets."


So, "re-regulation" should work? But, only this time, I guess...

But then... we lose the free global trade... Tsk...tsk...tsk...

Back to school, indeed!




"It's human nature, unless somebody can find a way to change human nature, we will have more crises and none of them will look like this because no two crises have anything in common, except human nature."


I'll try to remember this. Gee, the man opened the door of history for himself, and, children, as you already know: Historia magistra vitae...


(All quotations from news.bbc.co.uk... )



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 05:17 AM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 





big bets require at least a breakeven/gain


The Hang Seng made an August high of 21197 and almost matched that with a Monday high of 21134. Last nights close was 21051. The FTSE is making gains this morning so perhaps the US markets will summon a UFO from area 51 and beam up today.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate
 


I thought we would have to call the prophet, but again looks like this rally is stalling

Still have to be on my call about a new yearly high this week.. too coincidental for me bouncing off the 20 EMA



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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i hear some people on a call

hear that HF's were forced to liquidate positions in NG causing the last dip

also hear accumulation is beginning in some forms contrary to other barron that wanted to get in around 180 - 220

just something to think about



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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Apropos role of 9/11 in present crisis, Reinhardt has an interesting account on ENRON "scandal"

www.enterprisecorruption.com...

Mr. Greenspan, aka Mr. Just Naturally Human, also "knew nothing"...

[edit on 9-9-2009 by DangerDeath]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


It's something that came across the new wires, I'm waiting for a full story to post the link.

It's *probably* their own bonds, but denominated in USD, but I can't be sure yet. The EIB is also looking to a 3yr USD denominated Bond as a benchmark offering

Link to EIB offering mention is www.fxstreet.com...


If it is their own bonds dominated in USD, then that is actually positive news for the USD.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate
 


I thought we would have to call the prophet, but again looks like this rally is stalling

Yeah. Right after the Dow hits 10k and the oil $80.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
i hear some people on a call

hear that HF's were forced to liquidate positions in NG causing the last dip

also hear accumulation is beginning in some forms contrary to other barron that wanted to get in around 180 - 220

just something to think about


What happened to natural gas going to like 2 dollar BIOTCH!?!?!
I think people are just bargain hunting right now. We have time to see if this is THE rise in natural gas or just a blip.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


It wasnt my call.. as far as I know that one guy is still that way, and hes pretty damn smart - I just hear that HF's liquidated large positions a couple weeks ago and thats what caused that sharp move down because they couldnt take on any more contracts



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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But... They keep telling us things are getting better....

FDIC Proposes Six-Month Extension for Debt Guarantee Program


Sept. 9 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. proposed a six-month, emergency-only extension to its debt guarantee program as regulators move to wean companies from federal aid approved at the height of last year’s credit crisis.

The five-member FDIC board unanimously approved seeking comment on the extension, which would be limited to certain cases, during a meeting in Washington today. The FDIC now guarantees eligible debt issued before the scheduled Oct. 31 expiration by banks that must get agency approval and pay a fee.

Bankers have pressed the FDIC to spell out how it will end the program, which Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke has said was instrumental in keeping financial markets stable during the worst of the 2008 financial crisis. The program is half of the Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program; a portion that backs business checking accounts was extended for six months at an FDIC meeting last month.

“The point here is to allow for an orderly transition out of a government-backed system,” said Robert Strand, a senior economist at the American Bankers Association in Washington, in a telephone interview yesterday. The ABA had asked the FDIC to “worry about the cutoff points and the suddenness” of ending the guarantees, to make sure closing down the program doesn’t roil markets, he said.

Under the limited extension, designed to help the FDIC phase out the program, banks would have to apply to the board for permission to access the aid and show that they were unable to issue unguaranteed debt due to market disruptions or other emergency circumstances.

The FDIC had about $320 billion in outstanding debt guaranteed by the program as of July 31, from firms including Citigroup Inc. and General Electric Co. Regulators are weaning banks from U.S. backing by requiring them to issue unguaranteed debt before repaying Troubled Asset Relief Program funds and escaping restrictions attached to that aid.

Issuance of FDIC-guaranteed bonds has shrunk to $10.8 billion in the third quarter of this year from $130.2 billion in the first quarter and $34.7 billion in the second, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.[/url]

And from the article:


"It’s a reasonable safeguard, and when things start declining again it’s helpful to have that option,” said Gregory Habeeb, who manages $7.5 billion in fixed-income assets at Calvert Asset Management Co. in Bethesda, Maryland. “The fact that it was extended is called ‘bad and good.’ The bad is that it’s still needed. The good is it’s still there if needed.”


But.. but... why do we have to keep kicking the can if things are getting better????



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


They'll say things are getting better until they begin saying they aren't getting better anymore. And they say, 'oops, made a mistake. sorry. 'nother trillion pweez?'.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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Today is 09/09/09 and we expect things to match and equal to each other neatly -- no oddities and contradictions, please.


Stocks closed higher after faltering for awhile on a Federal Reserve report that the economy will remain weak due largely to unemployment.

The Fed's report was somewhat at odds with a growing consensus that the economy is out of recession and on the path to recovery.


Oops.

So there is a "growing consensus." We always use passive voice when afraid to identify the source of that "consensus." As long as there are short sellers, the economy will always be pulling out of the recession. Don't get left behind! Buy stocks now! Take advantage of bargain prices!


[edit on 9/9/2009 by stander]



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