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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate
 


Yes, the T+3 applies though only "regular way" correct, not on a cash basis?




posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


T3 applies to cash accounts, having a margin account allows you more trading flexibility.

DayTrade Buying Power (DTBP) in a margin account should be 4 X your cash
balance , so you should have DTBP of 400K that can be *concurrently in use* at any time during the trading day...... when you buy, the sum is subtracted from your DTBP available... when you close the receipts are added back to your DTBP available. the DTBP level is set at start of trading day and does Not change during the day...... if you have more than 400k of positions * simultaneously open* at any time during the day you have exceeded your DTBP and will get a margin call.

If you are strictly cash trading, that 3 day rule applies, as you have no margin acct to use for settlements should they become necessary in a loss.

It is this reason that the *rule of thumb* is to never trade with any more than 20% of what you have available

Wiki on DTBP



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


From your thread Timeline as of...



6. Goldman Sachs effectively failed ($2 tril)


And this GS, like others, who effectively failed in such a proportion, are now totally in control of the market!

And so on... so on... so on....

Obviously, the logic is now totally inverse (as we concluded here a while ago). They didn't really fail (too big to fall and such ideas). They are going up, recession is over, they walk... and so on. (Which is an illusion, of course.)

What I see is a total reconstruction of perception, like a man who is hanged from a tree by his legs, after a while his eyes adapt and make an inverted picture back into "normal".

The going down in dust and smoke actually happened - but it was kinda invisible...

Only few can see it happened (more like in that Carpenter's movie "They Live").

There are, though, a few indicators that something really changed and cannot be hidden, yet the logical link is broken. The price of gold, for instance (tied to dollar fx) is now almost 1.000 - but market, nevertheless goes up. This discrepancy alone tells a lot (so I think, but I may be wrong - or am I?). A year ago gold was something like 700, or so...

So the market follows gold, and the "up movement" of the market is actually inflation, or devaluation of dollar. And the "trick" is in the fact that on the lower level of the pyramid, deflation is strongly projected, by increasing unemployment, cutting salaries, etc.

All of the fiat money is projected onto the market, and it never reaches the ground, it stays with the clouds. No rain, no snow...

Is this how the elite is buying time? For how long? If the money doesn't rain on people soon, people will create their own money, and there will be war.

Swine flu distraction may work at first, but sincerely, it will not create enough smoke to prevent inevitable collapse.

How do you see further development? A smooth gliding or some serious crashes?

Was a 9/11 event a preemptive move to destroy some crucial evidence for this bizarre metamorphosis?



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Yeah I like that 20% rule, infact I like my personal rule of never trading more than 2% of your account value at any time, but people have their own ways etc..

But I am still not getting this

I should be able to buy/sell anything immed. if I have purchased all in cash, and take the loss/gain at anytime, this is not correct?

*no margin accounts at all just to clarify


**btw - i have never purchased on margin

[edit on 7-9-2009 by GreenBicMan]



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by DangerDeath
Is this how the elite is buying time? For how long?


Yes, and the answer to the 2nd is the $64 (Trillion LOL) question. They are going to keep playing *kick the can* aka *hide the snausage* as long as they possibly can, with the prayer behind the action being that a new bubble can be created in which to hide the failures of the blow up of the previous bubble


How do you see further development? A smooth gliding or some serious crashes?


I really don't know yet. That's why I pay so much attention to the news & markets. PERSONALLY, I foresee either a big crash or a war


Was a 9/11 event a preemptive move to destroy some crucial evidence for this bizarre metamorphosis?


I don't think we will ever know the answer to that question



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Is this how the elite is buying time? For how long?


Yes, and the answer to the 2nd is the $64 (Trillion LOL) question. They are going to keep playing *kick the can* aka *hide the snausage* as long as they possibly can, with the prayer behind the action being that a new bubble can be created in which to hide the failures of the blow up of the previous bubble


How do you see further development? A smooth gliding or some serious crashes?


I really don't know yet. That's why I pay so much attention to the news & markets. PERSONALLY, I foresee either a big crash or a war


Was a 9/11 event a preemptive move to destroy some crucial evidence for this bizarre metamorphosis?


I don't think we will ever know the answer to that question



Last sentence I agree with, if you look to my only thread ive ever made about 9/11 when I talked to the guy from the military in the insurance class, sounds like there was a myraid of reasons



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


If your trading account is cash only, no margin account, you are limited in certain trades.

You are the one studying for the Series 7, you should already know these things - they are on the test.

You cannot buy and sell the same stock more than 4 times in a 5 day period, that includes your leveraged ETFs. Upon the 4th trade, you are locked out of that stock for 90 days. PERIOD

Depending on who you trade through, if you have less than $25K in your cash account, you may be restricted to 3 trades (of different stocks) per week. PERIOD

One cannot be a successful day trader without a margin account. Cash only has way more limit rules as per SEC and FINRA than margin accounts do

Check those Series 7 materials, it should all be in there



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Its not lol

But my book was from 2005 - I bet that makes a world of difference

But like I said i am not working for my dad anymore because of what I am doing now and FINRA and SEC does not appreciate that.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
*no margin accounts at all just to clarify


**btw - i have never purchased on margin



And this was completely obvious when you entered into this thread with all your cheerleading on FAS/FAZ and other leveraged ETFs

Most trader brokerages (not private, but IB, TOS, e-Trade, etc) will NOT ALLOW you to even buy an ETF without a margin account BECAUSE they are leveraged to a multiple.

If you are WRONG and the stock goes the WRONG WAY you are liable for the full loss - in that LEVERAGED amount.

Without a margin account to draw that possible loss from, most accounts will not let you make the purchase in the first place.

The minimum investment for all trading accounts I have ever dealt with is $3500. Until you grow that to $25K you are limited to 3 trades a week PERIOD and none of them can be leveraged stocks. At $25K some of the restrictions fall off, but there are still limits in place.

turning 5 figures into 6 is the first goal of day trading, so you can create your margin account & REALLY start trading



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


If your trading account is cash only, no margin account, you are limited in certain trades.

You are the one studying for the Series 7, you should already know these things - they are on the test.

You cannot buy and sell the same stock more than 4 times in a 5 day period, that includes your leveraged ETFs. Upon the 4th trade, you are locked out of that stock for 90 days. PERIOD

Depending on who you trade through, if you have less than $25K in your cash account, you may be restricted to 3 trades (of different stocks) per week. PERIOD

One cannot be a successful day trader without a margin account. Cash only has way more limit rules as per SEC and FINRA than margin accounts do

Check those Series 7 materials, it should all be in there


This is incorrect redhatty. There is something called a pattern day trader in which if you have 24,999.99 in your account or less, you cannot make 4 day trades within in a 5 day period or your margin account is suspended for like 2 months at the brokerage you broke this rule at. If you have more than 25k you can day trade as many times as you want without penalty.

EDIT: Also, they must be DAYTRADES. You can make as many trades as you want as long as they encompass 2 days or more (so like an overnight trade is fine).

[edit on 7-9-2009 by RetinoidReceptor]



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


You can make more than 4 trades on DIFFERENT stocks even with less than $25K in an account, the rule kicks in when you are trading the same stock during the week.

Maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought I was, but I basically said the same thing you did in *correcting* me, just said it in a different way :-)

Edit to add that all important "K"

2nd Edit to add: If your 4th trade on the same stock becomes an overnight hold, the 90 day lockout goes into effect regardless. This is a big complaint of many day traders & much effort has been spent trying to get the SEC & FINRA to adjust the rule

[edit on 9/7/09 by redhatty]



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


If you could accurately handicap market entry and exit points which of course no one can, then you would see that some entry and exit points are better than others. Therefore provided you are not just gambling it would make more sense for a low frequency trader to invest with a larger percentage of their portfolio fewer times on those occasions that offer "better" entry points.

Trading 2% over and over again would incur higher commissions and isn't very practical for a investor with under $25,000. With a cash account of $10,000 or less you can trade one good leg a week or so which seems to work better for me than trying to get in and out with smaller trades.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty

You can make more than 4 trades on DIFFERENT stocks even with less than $25K in an account, the rule kicks in when you are trading the same stock during the week.


Obviously the rule kicks in where you are trading the stock in the same week because the rule states you cannot make 4 or more DAYTRADES within a 5 day period. It says nothing about the same stock or not. It is day trades (making a trade from 9:30AM-3:59 PM on the same day).


Maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought I was, but I basically said the same thing you did in *correcting* me, just said it in a different way :-)


No you didn't. You were almost right but you didn't represent the rule to complete accuracy.



2nd Edit to add: If your 4th trade on the same stock becomes an overnight hold, the 90 day lockout goes into effect regardless. This is a big complaint of many day traders & much effort has been spent trying to get the SEC & FINRA to adjust the rule



There is absolutely nothing that suggests this is the case. And I don't know where you are getting hung up on this 'same' stock thing. This rule does not care if you are daytrading the same stock or different stock. Not to mention if your 4th trade is overnight, this would not designate you as a pattern day trader even if it is on the same stock.

If you have a link for this information then please post it, I could just not know this information. But FINRA has a good explanation on this rule and it doesn't have what you are saying in it:

www.finra.org...



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty
You cannot buy and sell the same stock more than 4 times in a 5 day period, that includes your leveraged ETFs. Upon the 4th trade, you are locked out of that stock for 90 days. PERIOD


Where did you get this information? I have never heard you are locked out of a specific stock for 90 days. Your margin account is suspended if you have day traded any stock 4 or more times in a 5 day period, but you aren't barred from buying that specific stock.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


If you were doing dollar cost averaging with a stock and your account suddenly gets frozen you might miss out on some good buying opportunities during the 90 day period.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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UK Telegraph: China Alarmed by US Money Printing

Posted on 09/07/09 at 8:36pm Log in

Considering the source - this is a quite sobering warning to America of what the Chinese are thinking. Nothing surprising as we have seen China up their stake in gold, sign bilateral currency agreements with other countries to avoid the dollar, purchasing hard assets to redeploy out of dollars, move their bond purchases to near term maturities and the like, but you can see in their words both a dismay at what we have done, and what they are slowly planning for in the long term. [Feb 13, 2009: FT.com - China to US: "We Hate You Guys"] [May 21, 2009: China Becoming More Picky About Debt]

Of course, as we have said many times - for now they are stuck with us, because any move to detach from the States or our bond market would destabilize both countries.

Also interesting to note the comments about bubbles in real estate [Aug 13, 2009: WSJ - In China, Land Prices Fan Bubble Fears] and stock market in China. [Jun 29, 2009: China Business News - $170B of Bank Loans Funneled into Stock Market] And unlike CNBC bulls, he reiterates all the world cannot rely on China to save them.

Story HERE



[edit on 7-9-2009 by TrainDispatcher]



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by fromunclexcommunicate
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


If you were doing dollar cost averaging with a stock and your account suddenly gets frozen you might miss out on some good buying opportunities during the 90 day period.


If you were going to use your margin account to dollar cost average, then yes. If you were just using cash, then you can still buy and sell stocks...but short term trades are stupid if you don't have margin because then you have to wait like 3 days to let the trades to settle, or something like that, before being able to use that same cash. With margin you can buy and sell stuff and you don't have to wait for trades to settle.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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I thought all of this was because of the wash sale rule about tax implications..

Not about what you could buy or sell for an actual profit?

Errr. anyways.. lol



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate
 


Me personally, its 2% or *nothing* as I have stated previously. I know that rule sucks for 90% of people, but I have learned my lesson - and the hard way i suppose lol

Thats why its having a large bankroll or snothing for me, thats why my hedge fund is the only way, I just need all the backtesting done..taking 4-EVERZ

[edit on 7-9-2009 by GreenBicMan]



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate
 


Me personally, its 2% or *nothing* as I have stated previously. I know that rule sucks for 90% of people, but I have learned my lesson - and the hard way i suppose lol

Thats why its having a large bankroll or snothing for me, thats why my hedge fund is the only way, I just need all the backtesting done..taking 4-EVERZ

[edit on 7-9-2009 by GreenBicMan]


That is dumb GBM to only use 2% of capital on a trade unless you 1) have like billions, 2)are trading in futures, forex or options (options to less of an extent though).

I can understand how you are scarred, but you won't make crap if you are only 2% invested in a stock. I don't even know of any investors that do that. If you are scared, there are many hedging techniques that protect you.



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