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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate
 
Nah...

It's all Holographic Sand...it's not real...

It's a 3-D Disney IMAX Movie based on 1's & 0's in a computer that represent debt...

It's all we've traded for way to long now...

I like bartering better...a chicken...that is something you can sink yer teeth into...




posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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Don't know if anyone posted this...

China to buy first IMF bonds for 50 billion dollars


China has agreed to buy the first International Monetary Fund bonds for about 50 billion dollars, the IMF said Wednesday.

IMF managing director Dominique Strauss-Kahn and the deputy governor of the People's Bank of China, Yi Gang, signed the agreement Wednesday at IMF headquarters in Washington, the multilateral institution said.

Under the agreement, the Chinese central bank "would purchase up to SDR 32 billion (around 50 billion dollars) in IMF notes," it said.


This is China's first open move to a "new" reserve currency

It’s a bad thing for Americans because for the past fifty years we Americans have benefited from a seniorage arrangement.

The worlds reserve currency was the dollar, something we could produce for essentially free. China has been at the forefront of the recent movement among some global players to move beyond the current system to a system where the world’s reserve currency is something other than the dollar. Today’s announcement of China buying IMF bonds is a step in that direction, the most concrete step so far I believe.

Once the dollar is no longer the world’s reserve currency then the U.S. will no longer have the seniorage advantage and we will lose all the benefits that accrue from seniorage.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 
Guess that's why Shanghai is up ~5% huh???

And the Yen is strong still...

Shanghai Composite 2,849.381 2:39AM ET Up 134.407 (4.95%)
Nikkei 225 10,214.64 2:00AM ET Down 65.82 (0.64%)

Gold is $979.50...$980.10 at 3:14am...Hmmm...

Oil is $68.44

I'm seeing a Train Wreck up ahead...and smell fear...


[edit on 9/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by Hx3_1963

Guess that's why Shanghai is up ~5% huh???



China is up on news that the gov. really hasn't stopped fanning the fires of the lending bubble in China as investors/traders feared.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 04:53 AM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


Something is up, the Euro zone got the same "stimulus" news this morning.



The European Central Bank will leave interest rates at a record low and signal it’s in no rush to withdraw emergency stimulus measures as the economy shows signs of recovering from its worst recession since World War II, economists said.



www.bloomberg.com...

Apparently this announcement was sprung on all the G20 countries including the United states. Another year of stimulus!




G20 countries need to pre-plan for withdrawal of the monetary and fiscal stimulus that is fuelling global economic recovery but should not move on either front for much of the next year, the OECD's chief economist says.


www.reuters.com...

[edit on 3-9-2009 by fromunclexcommunicate]



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 06:58 AM
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^^^Good catch!!!

We'll be at 10K before ya know it.

I so love watching the mainstream explanations of how and why.
CNN is a great daily source of jibberish.
I guess Maria Barter-Man will have to talk the bullish talk today.

What will all those bears say? So many of them were calling for the end of the world.

THE BULL RALLY IS STILL IN EFFECT!!!



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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UE 4 wk moving avg & CC's both up today...

A few worse than expected retail numbers...

Gold $987...

Futures falling... :shk:

[edit on 9/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 07:38 AM
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Well for those that think that jobless figure doesn't matter think twice.

Because it does, Americas economy right up the crisis was fueled by consumer spending, credit cards and loans, in other words people spending on needless things while living beyond their means.

What happen when the gravy train is cut and the spending is no longer the driver of the economy.

The nation withers.

So actually the only ones making the real money in the nation are those that actually help crash the nations economy to begin with through greed and irresponsibility.

Retail Sales Fall Short, Hurt by Weak Back-to-School

Until the nation's consumer starts spending again and jobs are truly created and "no just saved" Americas will not begin to prosper again regardless what the elites are doing in the markets and with the markets.



U.S. retailers reported August sales that showed some signs that the economic downturn was easing, but a late Labor Day holiday and muted consumer enthusiasm weighed on results in the key back-to-school season.

Consumers still focused on essentials and saving money as they face uncertain job prospects, ravaged retirement savings and lower home prices, a trend that could continue to weigh on retailers in the all-important winter holiday season.

According to Thomson Financial, the bulk of retailers reporting sales so far have fallen short of analyst's estimates.


www.cnbc.com...



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 07:43 AM
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End of Stimulus May Cause A 'Double-Dip' Recession: Gross

What happen when an economy depends on stimulus to prosper, it becomes an economy base on illusions.


The inability of the government to continue pumping stimulus into the economy could promote a double-dip recession that will mean investment opportunities in longer-term government debt, Pimco's Bill Gross told CNBC.

As inflation becomes less a possibility due to the weakening economy, 10-year notes and 30-year bonds could provide solid investment opportunities, Gross, CIO of the world's largest bond fund, said in a live interview.

"To the extent that we have had a trillion dollars worth of stimulus, from the standpoint of deficits, and more, the government basically has to continue to do that and to add to that in order to keep the economy chugging along," he said. "To the extent that that's limited, to the extent that they pull back on some of those stimulus programs—Cash for Clunkers and those types of things—then the double-dip moves into the realm of possibility."


www.cnbc.com...

The biggest mistake made by any government is to forget that investing in job creation is what will bring the real long lasting prosperity.

Supporting the wealth of the few at the expenses of the labor force is just making the nations deepen its path to decay.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by redhatty
Don't know if anyone posted this...

China to buy first IMF bonds for 50 billion dollars


China has agreed to buy the first International Monetary Fund bonds for about 50 billion dollars, the IMF said Wednesday.

IMF managing director Dominique Strauss-Kahn and the deputy governor of the People's Bank of China, Yi Gang, signed the agreement Wednesday at IMF headquarters in Washington, the multilateral institution said.

Under the agreement, the Chinese central bank "would purchase up to SDR 32 billion (around 50 billion dollars) in IMF notes," it said.


This is China's first open move to a "new" reserve currency

It’s a bad thing for Americans because for the past fifty years we Americans have benefited from a seniorage arrangement.

The worlds reserve currency was the dollar, something we could produce for essentially free. China has been at the forefront of the recent movement among some global players to move beyond the current system to a system where the world’s reserve currency is something other than the dollar. Today’s announcement of China buying IMF bonds is a step in that direction, the most concrete step so far I believe.

Once the dollar is no longer the world’s reserve currency then the U.S. will no longer have the seniorage advantage and we will lose all the benefits that accrue from seniorage.

China has the right to purchase SDR like Mongolia, Iceland, or any other nation affected by the global economic downturn. The SDR has been around since 1969 and it wasn't invented to replace USD as the reserve currency -- IMF is like a world bank that can loan large sum of money to entire nations, coz there is no private bank rich enough to handle this type of loans.

The People's Bank of China didn't purchase any bonds for an investment, coz IMF is not in this kind of business. According to the agreement, the bank purchased regular SDR notes.
www.imf.org...



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by stander
 


China is supporting the decision of the IMF to boost their output of SDR, see that was the plan when they meet on August 10, they were to start increasing the SDR output, this will do one thing and that is keep eroding the power of the dollar, that is what China wants.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


To me it seems like the markets are doing exactly what they did this past January to March, before tumbling below 6800...

finance.yahoo.com...

We could see the downward spiral very soon


[edit on 3-9-2009 by warrenb]



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by warrenb
 


Something is going on behind the scene, because on Monday it was actually a jubilant expectation that things were going to look good by the end of the week.

I thing that the government is going to play with the end of the week numbers to show a more positive outlook.

But September like many has told already on the thread tends to be not very good when it comes to the markets.

Still the G20 is getting together next month and is the talks of more toxic asset resurfacing around.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by stander
 


China is supporting the decision of the IMF to boost their output of SDR, see that was the plan when they meet on August 10, they were to start increasing the SDR output, this will do one thing and that is keep eroding the power of the dollar, that is what China wants.


Not really, coz the power of dollar doesn't depend on IMF loans. You can see that the IMF loans increased during the global recession, but the dollar didn't react to it.
The Chinese are experiencing some problems, coz they are essentially a communist country.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by stander
 


The IMF is outputing 250 billion dollars in which only 100 billions will go to needy countries with 20 only ot very poor ones to fight the global recession.

What they are planning with the rest? still China has a lot of liquidity in the form of USD why does they need FDRs for?.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by stander
 


The IMF is outputing 250 billion dollars in which only 100 billions will go to needy countries with 20 only ot very poor ones to fight the global recession.

What they are planning with the rest? still China has a lot of liquidity in the form of USD why does they need FDRs for?.

The only way for China to redeem the US Treasuries before maturity is the secondary market. So if you try to sell $50 billion worth of US Treasuries the supply exceeds demand and the price of the bonds depreciate rapidly. In other words, to get the best of the investment, China needs to wait until the bonds mature. The problem is that the Chinese fear accelerated inflation of USD, so they are trying to figure out other options how to protect their US bond investment. They failed to read the fine print about what the US Treasuries really are for in the modern economic times.





[edit on 9/3/2009 by stander]



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by stander
 


Yes but that is also the result of the output of FDR it will also cause inflation so I think China is out to something.




posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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Can I ask a really stupid question? Where does the IMF get this money from in order to issue bonds in such large denomination? Who controls IMF? Sure, member countries are supposedly working together - kinda like a financial UN or something, but who is at the head of the table, and who are they to create bonds?

Oh, and what is the relation between the IMF and the World Bank?

Apologies for being totally ignorant in the whole matter... international finance is so overly complicated.

BTW- I just watched The International last week, and it got me wondering if yet again Hollywood is trying to say something behind the movie scripts. For those who have not seen it, the movie does get into the international banking / government control / crime + weapons + war = $ thing, but you can tell (especially by the ending) that the movie tip toed around what they were really trying to say without ruffling any feathers. My overall rating was a C.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by nydsdan
 



The IMF relies, principally, on three main sources of funding: (1) loan repayments (interest charges) from debtor countries; (2) gold reserves; and (3) requested resources from its shareholders. The third group of funds largely come from developed, industrialized nations like the United States – the IMF's largest shareholder – and are in three forms: (a) quotas (dues paid by the Fund's member nations); (b) borrowing arrangements (loans the IMF borrows from creditor countries/members or from the private market); and (c) funds the IMF can pull from the Trusts (such as the trust for HIPC – Heavily Indebted Poor Countries initiative) – separate pools of assets that consist entirely of additional contributions (separate and distinct from quotas) made by member countries. It should also be noted that these sources provide for two principal types of costs: the costs of the loans themselves, and the IMF's operational costs. Operational costs range from surveillance, research gathering and technical assistance/advice provided to countries, to internal administrative costs (such as employee wages).

www.uiowa.edu...




posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by nydsdan
 


Conspiratory speaking,


48 per cent of voting power at the IMF is in the hands of eight executive directors representing their own countries (USA, Japan, Germany, France, United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, China, and the Russian Federation) while the other 176 member-states have 16 representatives with virtually the same voting power. At the WB the same executive nations apart from China again hold nearly half (46 per cent) of voting power. In the WTO, although all 144 member nations theoretically have a say, actual decision-making occurs in the "green room" - the small group meetings convened by the director-general and heavily influenced by Canada, the European Union, Japan and the United States. None of the countries listed above is in the southern hemisphere, and none is a 'developing' (poorer) country.


Who Controls the Loot?

www.globalpolicy.org...

About the IMF

www.imf.org...



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