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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


True.

Its all about "perception"

USA is still "perceived" (and i think we really are) to be the best of the best right now.

ZBW is some ****hole in Africa and anyone with big money isnt going to throw their $ in an unstable region, unless its totally "play" money

Our corporations, or just MSFT, their assets are prob. more than all of Africa put together.. but I could be way off.. but if I am I doubt I am off by much.




posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


I see what you are saying, but Barack "Little Hugo" Obama, is quickly making America not a good place to invest.

If the gov gives the Fed power to take over any business deemed a threat to the economy, people aren't going to invest in America with the threat that the gov can come in and take over any business it wants.

Then the increase in tax rates Obama is proposing. We might not end up like Zimbabwe but we sure as heck could end up living in third world conditions where when you get a job at a company they also give you a place to sleep because you don't make enough rent an apartment.

Not to mention most corporations that people invest in are multi-national corporations. Monetizing our debt is a really big worry, sure our living standards aren't going to be the same regardless but if the gov keeps spending uncontrollably our freedom is hanging in the balance.

Next thing you know you'll have to pay a toll on major interstates because the gov went and sold them off for profit.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


Obama is just x'ing the Bush tax cuts as far as I know.

I dont think he is raising taxes to a new level.. is this correct?

The taxes on smokes and liquor I am not including. Drugs are always the thing that will be taxed, so no use in complaining about that at all.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


No he is talking about raising business taxes, and the tax is no longer going to be on income, it is going to be on assets.

Obama also said he wasn't going to raise taxes on 95% of American's while trying to pass trillions of dollars in legislation. Obama also said this is going to be the most open and transparent White House in history. Obama also said he was going to give us 5 days to look over legislation before he signs it into law.

Obama has said a lot of things that he hasn't done. Now that is interesting logic, won't listen to MSM and feel its all disinfo, but will take Obama at his word. :shk:

Also about those mutual funds, you mean the Banks are going to buy bonds with the billions in dollars that the government gave them aka our tax money?

You do realize that America's biggest export is debt, and that America imports more than it exports. Most of our food comes from other countries, most of our products come from other countries. We have the second highest business tax rate in the world.

have a look at this link and This one.

Also what they aren't telling you is that America's total debt liability is 100 trillion or more dollars, when you add in medicare, medicaid, social security, etc.

Also the only thing keeping us afloat right now is the fact that the American Dollar is the worlds reserve currency. There is talk about doing away with it. The only advantage with that is that we have exported so much debt the other countries don't want to take that kind of loss, all in one hit.

Then there is the issue that nobody knows what the Federal Reserves balance sheet looks like, but cause we can't audit the fed. So that is an unknown a really big unknown. We don't even know what the balance sheet looks like of the entity that sells us our money.

If the fed starts monetizing the debt people will start running from the dollar, America is basically a service country, we hardly manufacture anything. What is there to invest in that is big enough to keep people buying trillions in dollars of our debt? Nothing that is what.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


and i agree, i do not believe politicians - or what they say they will do in the future bc we all know different circumstances arrive

i didnt vote for him, but i dont think he is doing a horrible job either

btw, mutual funds have nothing to do with banks - i am not sure how you are coming to this relationship

mutual funds have been around much much longer than this bailout scheme/fiasco

[edit on 21-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


Oh also, when you talk about LIABILITY, you better talk about ASSETS as well!!!!

You are mixing things up and I am not sure you know exactly what you are talking about (not to be mean)



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


When does DEBT become an ASSET and not a LIABILITY?

Hastobe was discussing the debt liability of the US

What asset is there in debt, GBM?

Maybe it's your reading comprehension that is the problem, and not what hastobe is writing



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


they are buying already, they have been buying more than our own government is willing to admit, still they has been buying resources an who knows what else with all that US money they got.

But it wasn't until recently that it was made public.

Still I have been so far good with my predictions about China, I have been for years before the crisis telling people that China was going to become a key player in the world, they are, sorry to say that I don't buy into been allowed to be greed is what has been able to made into what they are, the greed of our capitalistic gone corrupted system.

I say, right now that we are going to see exactly how much power China have.

But that is my opinion.




posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate
 


No, no 10 years, the OPEC is promising to have the prices of crude up to 200 dollars in only two years, if I am not wrong it means by the end of next year or the beginning of the next.




posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


I believe that they have been doing this for a while already, since 2000 sometime in between.

They started small and now they are getting the hand of it.

After all they have learned from the best.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


I agree Obama is been portrayed as an enemy of the wealthy and a danger to free capitalism.

This makes US a littler bit harder to trust, since the bailouts and government intervention in the markets.



[edit on 21-6-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


Quick overview of Mutual funds To buy Mutual Funds you have to go through banks correct? That is what that link states. And with the repeal of Glass-Steagall banks can now be investors. Mutual Funds are:


* Bond Funds: Bond mutual funds are pooled amounts of money invested in bonds. Bonds are IOUs, or debt, issued by companies or governments. A purchaser of a bond is lending money to the issuer, and will usually collect some regular interest payments until the money is returned. Usually, the amount of interest paid (the coupon) is fixed at a set percentage of the amount invested, thus, bonds are called "fixed-income" investments.
* General Equity (Stock) Funds: Stocks represent part ownership, or equity, in corporations, and the goal of stock ownership is to see the value of the companies increase over time. Stocks are often categorized by their capitalization (or market cap), and like many other things come in three basic sizes: small, medium, and large. Many mutual funds invest primarily in one of these sizes and are thus classified as large-cap, mid-cap, or small-cap funds. Additionally, mutual funds are often categorized by the type of stock that is bought. Mutual fund types are generally "growth," "value," or a combination of the two, called "blend."
* Balanced Funds: Balanced funds mix some stocks and some bonds. A typical balanced fund might contain about 50-65% stocks, and hold the rest of the shareholder's money in bonds and cash. It is important to know the distribution of stocks to bonds in a specific balanced fund to understand the risks and rewards inherent in that fund.
* Global/International Funds: Global and international funds invest in companies whose homes are beyond the fair shores of this great nation. (There are, of course, many other great nations.) In general, international funds are much more volatile than domestic funds. International funds generally invest only in foreign companies, while global funds may invest in some U.S.-based companies in addition to foreign companies.
* Sector Funds: Sector funds invest in one particular sector of the economy: technology, banking, computers, the Internet, llamas. Just kidding about the llamas. No one has yet started the Llama Fund, though it's only a matter of time given that there is a mutual fund called the Couch Potato Fund, which invests in, as far as we know, the "remote control" sector. Sector funds can be extremely volatile because the broad market will find certain sectors very attractive and very unattractive often in rapid succession (much like couch potatoes may find certain programs very attractive and very unattractive in rapid succession -- annoying the heck out of their significant others).
* Index Funds: Finally, our favorite -- the index mutual fund owns a full participation in some portion of the stock market. An index fund matches the shareholdings of a target index, such as the Standard & Poor's 500 Composite Stock Price Index (S&P 500). Index funds are distinct from actively managed mutual funds in that they do not involve any stock picking by supposedly skilled professionals -- they simply seek to replicate the returns of the specific index. The Motley Fool Index Center offers a complete description of some of the major indexes you may have heard of.


I have a degree in Business. Liabilities are on the "what you owe" side of the balance sheet, assets are on the "what you own" side of the balance sheet.

If your Liabilities out way your assets, you probably are no longer in business. The government does not have 100 trillion or more in assets. Which means they are in the red. Not to mention, the government cannot sell it's assets, it's unconstitutional. Which means the government does not have assets.

The government is not a business. The minimum credit score to even begin to get a loan right now is 750. People are trying to build and buy houses and they can't get the loan.

Assets are losing their value because there is too much debt in the system. One the government doesn't have any assets, except for Citibank, GM, Chrysler, and Amtrak.

I would really like to see what would happen if the government came out and said that we sold all the interstates, federal buildings to a foreign country. I'm sure that would go over real well.

You don't get it. I might not know everything, and still learning, but what I do know is that there is not enough stuff to sell to meet our debt obligations.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


Eventually he will as his health care bill takes root, he needs money to finance that venture. So it may not be this year, (hopefully) but it could be the next, that if our nation doesn't get over the financial crisis.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


And yes Red that is what I'm talking about.

Not to mention consumer debt is almost 100% of GDP, where are we going to get this money from?

I really don't know what else to say to him, I know many people have tried to explain this to him before, but he still isn't getting it.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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Actually, I think, what's bothering China right now is what is going on in Iran.
Don't forget that they had a foreplay in Tibet just a while ago.
If the Chinese decide to rise up, their gov can kiss it goodbye, because there will not be just stone hurling at each other. This is China's biggest concern and it never loses priority.

Just imagine what kind of problem it is to rule a country so big as China...



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


That is the thing China might not have tons of influence and power right now, but they are definitely trying to get more, and they are being very successful at it. Then that article Red posted about it looking like China is getting into the business of selling its debt.

When oil derricks start popping up in peoples back yards maybe people will notice has been going on that they aren't telling us.

I still wouldn't put it past Ben to find away to not monetize the debt if they can't sell enough bonds. Which would just put it off and makes things even worse than they already are.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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America is a great country but history tells us that it often takes monumental disasters like Pearl Harbor to steer America on to a new course. I'm sure we will be reading a lot more about currencies and protectionism as this global economic storm continues.

We do have great resources in this country but short term profiteering is currently guiding our decision making. How can we expect to get off our foreign oil dependency when the oil industry profiteers in the US are calling all the shots?

Going to war over oil would buy us only short term price relief. The military complex would profit handsomely but the taxpayers would be left with only huge war debts and a graveyard of rusting ships and war machines at the end of the conflict. Spending the same amount of money to rebuild the US infrastructure so that it is not dependent on oil would be much more economical but there is a lot of work involved and we would need to start soon.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


What are the USA assets?

I would say way way over 100 trillion...

Is there a way to find this out?

EDIT:

This guy says 188 Trillion.

Which is > than 100 Trillion

Is there any other opinions?

lizzink


[edit on 21-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


I have to go through a bank to purchase mutual funds?

Really?

EDIT:

I didnt see that in the link you provided.. could you point that out?

I am pretty sure my dad can sell me a mutual fund w/o me going to the bank first..

Let me know.. because I am quite interested, I could ask my dad, but you have a degree in business, so you would prob. know

[edit on 21-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Lets see how it pans out marg.

As of right now, I dont believe I am incorrect.

Also, we may find out that we could even be perhaps more profitable in the long run financing this bc the money we funnel out with the uninsured and them declaring BK because of med. bills etc...

But I have no idea.. I dont think anyone does either.. everything right now is conjecture.



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