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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Jun, 20 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


Yep, the bond market is where it is at.

Either people are buying or they aren't buying bonds. When people aren't buying our bonds that is a very bad thing. It means people aren't buying our debt which means there are no new investors which means no new money.

You know the deal I'm preaching to the choir. I'm still learning.

Like I said though there is still money to be made in the market there will always be money to be made, just the way the economy works, so companies do better in hard times than they do in good times.

Like bail bondsmen, and repo guys.

Now when those guys start doing bad and the economy is still doing bad we have major problems because that means they have run out of people to arrest and things to take. Especially this guy.




posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:00 AM
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speaking of bonds... ROFL

back to the incredibly twisted story of the Japan/Italy bond "situation"

I'm referring you all over to Karl Denninger, who has really been following this closely, and while he even touches on something Hal Turner reports, it is the OTHER things he has compiled that will make you sit back and go "HMMMMMM"

The Bond Saga: It Gets More Odd



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by redhatty
speaking of bonds... ROFL

back to the incredibly twisted story of the Japan/Italy bond "situation"

I'm referring you all over to Karl Denninger, who has really been following this closely, and while he even touches on something Hal Turner reports, it is the OTHER things he has compiled that will make you sit back and go "HMMMMMM"

The Bond Saga: It Gets More Odd


I don't know why there isn't even a peep about this on anywhere that is widely viewed. I guess they are keeping it under wraps until they get a really good excuse as not to cause any disturbances.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 08:10 AM
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Don't you see, it is in the best interest for the US treasury to proclaim those bonds fake. Even if they are real, it's just a good riddance


I still think this is a conceptual art project.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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I wonder how the Iranian internal conflict is indeed been incited by the CIA will play in the relationships of the US and China, after all if Iran goes down China can lose not only their most important oil supplier but also they can lose billions of investments in the Iran oil infrastructure.

I believe China is warning the US on Iran right now, so we should see if it will reflect in the markets this week.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I believe China is warning the US on Iran right now, so we should see if it will reflect in the markets this week.


Honestly I don't see any point in mentioning what China is doing. They are like the markets, which means they are getting way ahead of themselves. And what can they possibly do? Bad mouth the U.S. dollar? Make the dollar's value go down against the yuan? Isn't that what Congress wanted anyway and China has tried to avoid? They aren't going to do that. If they were, why would they try to keep the yuan so devalued against the dollar? They won't do anything and everyone knows they won't because they really can't risk anything when the global economy is so fragile. The CIA will do whatever they want as usual.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


CIA > China

Who even knows what or how much assets are under the belt of a black operation.

The CIA seems like they are their own entity with their own international rules and regulations (which are none basically)

As I have been saying, it is MO at least that China depends on us much more than we depend on them, at least for right now, I think at this point in time we could topple them if put into that position



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


Still this is going to become a financial problem China can not afford to keep losing money, I don't think they want their oil supplier in jeopardy, neither want to lose those billions invested in Iran oil fields.

I thing something big is going to happen with the markets this week.

China have enough hold on the US right now that they will be using that to influence the Iran out come, if it's true that US is involved.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


At least as far as the "common" know, I like OBAMA's stance right now of letting them be... of course RP would be best in this situation.. but I think we need to keep far far far away from the MiddleE right now and let them figure it all out..



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

China have enough hold on the US right now that they will be using that to influence the Iran out come, if it's true that US is involved.



China has only been "allowed" to grow so much because it fits into the illusion of the global economy. China is integral in allowing Americans to consume and get fat and spend on credit while China is lending the money and being paid with THAT money. The money China is lending to us came from the wealth of Americans and the money that Americans in turn buy more stuff comes from the money China lent us! It is just BS. China doesn't own us at all. They have hundreds of billions of treasuries...okay...well the government has already made it clear that they can buy 1.2 trillion in a snap of a finger without devaluing things much. The U.S. will never collapse if China decides to not buy the debt anymore. We still have 300million people, thousands of nuclear bombs and 900 trillion dollars in assets.

One thing the markets have taught me is that when everyone is saying one thing, it usually doesn't happen or it isn't true. Everyone and their grandma thinks China wields all this influence, but honestly, maybe that is just what people want commoners to think.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 



Everyone and their grandma thinks China wields all this influence, but honestly, maybe that is just what people want commoners to think.


I agree, when you really look at the situation, China has been trying to get involved and gain more power with the UN and G-8(7) for awhile now, and have been unsuccessful. Also their stance on world affairs is a hands off approach for the most part unless something is going on like say in NK where they run the risk of a flood of refugees.

There is also speculation that yaun is actually worth less than what they are even touting. The only think I would be worried about China is them having the ability to buy just about anything they want, and our spineless reps willfully selling it to them.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if one day I woke up to find out that sections of the country have been sold off to China. The only risk China really poses to us is them not buying our debt.

But with BRIC being setup, by Goldman Sachs(imagine that
) they are steadily trying to gain more influence over the world. The way it is starting to look is that it will be East vs West, we are still a decade or more away from them being able to actually throw their weight around though.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


Wow, nice summation of things.

I think we share the same opinion on these matters.

The value of China holding our debt is nothing compared the the amt.'s of money we throw around



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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The CIA obviously has a major interest in Middle East politics. Google operation TPAJAX for a history lesson in Iranian coups.

web.payk.net...

Those 147 dollar a gallon oil prices were just a dry run for what could happen later 10 years into post peak oil production.

Publicly the CIA states that high oil prices promote alternative energy development. I'm surprised Obama has not jumped on an infrastructure building program to upgrade our national power grid with more nuclear plants so the auto industry can start building quick charge electric vehicles.

A program like that would create jobs and get us off dependency on foreign oil within a decade. Instead we are handing out TARP money to JP Morgan so they can lease supertankers to store oil off the world market! In today's world tax dollars go to banks so they can make quick profits by jacking up oil and equity prices. Infrastructure building programs like Roosevelts CCC back in the 30's that reinvested tax dollars many times over just don't make it past the greedy powers that be.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by fromunclexcommunicate]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


Yes, and China not buying our debt is not even a worry to Big Ben. I promise you that.

Tiny Tim's trip to China was nothing but for the "press"

You think we care about 250 Billion?

LOL

I bet GS could burn 250,000,000,000 in an incinerator and no one would bat an eye.. we can buy our debt at a pace that exponentially outnumbers most countries GDP's for the past decade.

This is why I keep on and on about the USA still being top dog for quite a while, of course IMO



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan

The value of China holding our debt is nothing compared the the amt.'s of money we throw around


What people don't understand though is that the U.S. won't "collapse" is China doesn't buy our debt. What happens is the way the global economy worked in the past (Americans buying from china, china lending to Americans to buy more, Americans buying more with that borrowed money) would collapse. The SYSTEM would collapse, not the United States. And nobody wants the system to collapse, especially the Chinese. Without that system they could NEVER grow at 11% annually.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


No doubt brother

I keep saying CHINA depends on US MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE than we depend on them

Exactly, you think they could keep up if we quit buying their ****?

Think about how much garbage we import from that country. Its prob. a ridiculous amt. and I don't even know the quantity. If anyone does I would be interested to know.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


China not buying our debt is really big worry to Ben. It should be a really big worry to you too.

When countries start monetizing the debt the currency becomes valueless. Think Zimbabwe, or the Wiemar Republic.

That is what you aren't understanding. You can't just print money out of thin air, and expect it to be worth anything. If people aren't buying our debt then they have no faith in the dollar, when there is no faith in the dollar then the dollar is worthless.

I'll repeat this again, you cannot just print money and expect the money to hold its value. Now if they monetize the two trillion in debt that they have to pay for come this fall that is a very bad thing. Printing(or creating) money out of thin air has the same effects as defaulting on a payment.

Edit to add - yea yea I know its wikipedia, If the countries do not want to accept payment in deflated dollars then they can request being paid in gold or silver.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


Its not for reasons I just stated.

In fact mutual funds BUY MUCH MORE EVERY YEAR than they do.

I could go on and on.. but CHINA is not a worry.

As RR said, we can snatch up 1.2xx trillion and not even make anyone blink.

That, IMO, is all that needs to be said.



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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hmmm...

China to float 10-year book-entry T-bonds this week


www.chinaview.cn 2009-06-17 19:46:57 Print

BEIJING, June 17 (Xinhua) -- China's Ministry of Finance (MOF) said Wednesday it would issue 28.27 billion yuan (4.13 billion U.S. dollars) of 10-year book-entry T-bonds, the 12th batch of its type this year.

The bonds have a fixed annual interest rate of 3.09 percent. The sales period will run from June 18-22 and the bonds will be tradable June 24, said the MOF in a statement.

Interest will be paid twice a year, with the principal paid on maturity.

news.xinhuanet.com...

China issuing their own debt now?



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife

I'll repeat this again, you cannot just print money and expect the money to hold its value. Now if they monetize the two trillion in debt that they have to pay for come this fall that is a very bad thing. Printing(or creating) money out of thin air has the same effects as defaulting on a payment.


You are right that the dollar really isn't worth anything (neither is any fiat currencies which can just be printed). But the difference between Zimbabwe and the U.S. is that there will ALWAYS be investors and people who have faith in the U.S. Our population is for the most part very educated, we have the best universities in the world, we have the best military in the world, the most assets, a large amount of natural resources, a lot of land. The U.S. will never become a Zimbabwe because we are totally different. If the U.S. government said tomorrow they were starting over, new dollar and declaring bankruptcy of sorts, there would still be investors in the U.S. because of the people, the military and the assets. So comparing us to Zimbabwe is like comparing sh*t to diamonds. And you know what the sh*t is



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