The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

I honestly feel more than ever that these markets are being highly manipulated. I think most of retail feels that way too as well as the long term funds. These are the people with the most cash (retail investors, pension funds, etc.) and these are the people that the gov. is trying to attract back to the markets. But I don't see that happening anytime soon as things just look too suspicious and people who aren't even conspiracy theorists seem to lean towards agreeing.

Here we go...

take some $ from Treas and switch it to stocks for the close...

was >-90 djia...watch it rise to close

Gotta hold the resistance... :shk:

[edit on 6/10/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


That 700 billion dollar slush fund(TARP) they have allows them to do all kinds of things with the market doesn't it?

Crazy stuff its still all false though eventually the fraud is going to get exposed and I fear all the manipulation is pushing the bottom down even further.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
True dat...

Guess they couldn't get no money to pull from oil to help the "recovery"...

pretty close though... jerks...

I can watch it and see where they pull $ from...

if one gets low pull it from the other and vica-versa... :shk:

Notice the bond market closes at 3...right...

[edit on 6/10/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


It's just a matter of time before they get caught with their pants down. That is going to be a day.

It also doesn't help matters when wackos go and shoot up the Holocaust Museum.

The bankers continue to get rich while we continue to get it in the ***.

I'm paying attention to the Audit the FED bill, not that they actually will get audited but you can tell its putting major pressure on Ben, he knows the gig is up though.

Eddit Bauer maybe heading into bankruptcy

Fontainebleau Las Vegas files for Ch. 11 bankruptcy

Sure looks like we are recovering to me!

Oh well such is life.

[edit on 10-6-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

We all watch the market because we have some form of capital invested.. so it pertains to us, yes? .. The average American looks at the market .. for some reason the DOW, and thinks it represents the entire country...

Most don't even know what the DOW is.. a mere 28 (30-2) companies out of thousands.. and they look at this to represent the entire economy.

The fact that stocks are increasing is good.. I am glad to see it because it will boost capital for companies and .. prevent .. larger layoffs in the next coming months..

However, it is highly manipulating, and I believe it is being manipulated for the reason posted above.. the worst thing in a panic to happen is...... panic. Fear. Not just the investor.. but the American's that have excess, spendable cash.

So we can all agree boosting MORAL for the spender is GOOD..

However, I feel we walk a thin line (all lines we walk seem to be thin these days) .. we boost moral for those that CAN spend, and probably will .. the 30% of Americans completely unaffected by this crisis.. but it will also boost the return of excessive habits that those who CANNOT spend that extra money.. that SHOULD be saving. If we continue to support the eroding of the savings for the Middle Class and more specifically the Lower Middle Class, then we could see this as a cycle. Spending will increase, the economy will pick up, and it will fall flat on it's face as all those who should have saved are broke, over credited and defaulting.

My other main concern with the increasing market values, with the bond markets, is the apparent devaluing of our currency .. this is the wrench in our recovery process..

If we encourage spending, if we make credit cheaper, but we drastically reduce the SPENDING POWER .. then what recovery will we have? .. those on the verge of foreclosure, repossession, defaults.. will literally be pushed over the edge by increasing fuel costs, food costs, energy costs..

So .. basically I see no recovery in the foreseeable future.. we are in the midst of the Perfect Economic Storm.. every thing that could go wrong has gone wrong. Sorry for yet another long posts..

reply to post by Rockpuck


There has been the issue of the national debt/GDP ratio -- a kind of scary outlook -- and the question was to fit the picture with a time frame with the condition that the government expenditures will not be modified according to the unfavorable circumstances. This is not like saying that the government would be totally blind to the future; it's just that you can't stop a freight train on a dime.

Developing various models seems to be too complex to arrive with 95% degree of certainty that in a given year, the Congress will convene in an emergency session to deal with the situation regarding the ability od the government to raise funds in order to operate. The last time a bit similar situation developed was the infamous can-we-talk-to-you-for-a-sec Paulson & Bernanke's visit to the Capitol Hill in the last September, which made mockery out of the term "congressional oversight." There are mechanisms at work that are not easy to monitor and can lead to nasty surprises, as it happened, with all the consequences being felt for months.

Identical conditions don't exist in this domain, so when you look at the national debt/GDP ratio of Japan, where the country owes 170% percent of its GDP, you can say that the topic of the US national debt should be postponed till it somewhat matters. But, unlike the US Government, the Japanese loaned the money to themselves and will pay off the debt on their own terms. So I think that the ratio of foreign/domestic debt is the one to look at first -- and keep a keen eye on the secondary bond market. That's where speculators operate and where are speculators, there is trouble waiting in the closet.

reply to post by stander

There has been the issue of the national debt/GDP ratio

As of right now the ratio is temporary.. that is to say, the expenditures are "one time only" such as the bailouts.. once the principle/interest is paid back, the debt disappears. I don't really see this being TO BIG of a concern for us to be honest.. some Nations and Countries operate on massive deficits far beyond our own ability to repay. Granted, as the GDP collapses (and it is) our ratio is even more severe. The primary reason I say I am not entirely concerned about this issue is that the US Government will NEVER default on debt. It's damn near impossible. The Only horrific incident that could occur from this massive expanding debt is the Debt Ceiling -- the maximum amount the government can borrow. There is actually a limit, and as the limit is reached Congress debates on whether or not to raise it. Last time we hit this mark was in 2006 I believe, when Bush's war spending pushed our deficits ever higher. Apparently with each bailout, etc it is raised.. or perhaps they put an infinite limit on it, I have heard nothing for the past 2 years about it.

Obviously the larger the deficit/budget the more the Gov spends -- more the Gov spends the more money is injected into the broader economy and thus inflation ...

The largest debt holder is our selves.. the Federal Reserve does not hold money in the sense that an actual bank does.. from my understanding the principle/interest is actually injected into the Treasury every fiscal year, thus why the Fed buying debt is so bad, they print the money loan it to the Gov and increase the money supply. But again.. that causes inflation in comparison to say China borrowing.

But then a good question would have to be.. why the hell invest in Treasury's at all? If, at the current rate of inflation, commodities, foods, real estate and the markets will expand much faster than the lowly interest from T Bills? The more money we inject into the economy, the lower the dollar's worth, the less you're really getting out of our debt.. essentially, they are worthless. Then take the entire situation as a whole and apply it to the average consumer... we are about to get a royal kick in the arse ... unless our government can somehow stimulate enough inflation to conquer the deflation of our purchasing power by, again, SOMEHOW, increasing the average wage of the average American our economy is screwed from the inside out.. i have seen absolutely nothing to show they are even working on this in a realistic fashion. Green Jobs, Rail Construction, these are not bringing us out of recession..

Originally posted by Rockpuck
But then a good question would have to be.. why the hell invest in Treasury's at all? If, at the current rate of inflation, commodities, foods, real estate and the markets will expand much faster than the lowly interest from T Bills?

It's not an investment as much as a safe protection against the full impact of the inflation trends in some cases. You never lose any portion of your investment in T-bills. The bills have been always redeemable. That's, for example, in opposition to that kind of investment when someone buys a portion of the Chrysler debt for 43 cents for every dollar and then be in need to petition the Supreme Court. When the bond yields temporarily reached zero, folks were buying them anyway to put their money someplace safe when no one dared to come near any bank at that time.

Long-term maturity government bonds are inflation indexed, so it is the safest protection against inflation, as long as the confidence in the government being able to redeem the bonds runs high -- as it has been the case. So the borrowing process still runs on a well-paved road. But the whole process very much resembles the ponzi scheme. If I know for sure that someone after me would have enough in the wallet to lend money to Mr. Ponzi, it's okay with me and I make a loan to Mr. Ponzi for a profit. But when the degree of confidence is lessened by either facts or rumors -- that's the point where ponzi is pulling up to the terminal.

As I said, there is always a mechanism in a complex machine ready to break down and no one knows about it -- until someone goes to the Capitol Hill asking for a screwdriver and pliers. There is always a chance for the unexpected, but one shouldn't lose sleep over it when it's hard to locate the possible problem -- it's like driving and worrying about a car accident all the time.

To put a cap on the government spending is a noble idea -- and as much effective as to ask a crackhead to quit going to the hood.


[edit on 6/11/2009 by stander]

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by Hx3_1963

 

That 700 billion dollar slush fund(TARP) they have allows them to do all kinds of things with the market doesn't it?

Crazy stuff its still all false though eventually the fraud is going to get exposed and I fear all the manipulation is pushing the bottom down even further.

yup the money the treasury or fed gets back from the bank TARP repayments can be re-deployed to keep asset prices high....

you know sometimes the bullsh^% they pull helps everyday people .....not that they design it that way...but sometimes when they aim to help themselves...other ordinary people benefit as well..... perhaps they can use tarp funds to levitate asset prices to save their (elite) wealth (at the expense of future generations debt) but

1. the stock market rise will lift everyone's 401k

at least for now

I guess a general rule would be the more gov't get's involved with the financial markets and numbers and "confidence reports" the more Politicizing they will do to make themselves real electable



[edit on 11-6-2009 by cpdaman]

business.timesonline.co.uk...

Britain is heading out of recession, says influential think-tank NIESR

The recession was declared over by the country’s leading economics think-tank yesterday after it released upbeat estimates showing that growth in GDP resumed in April and May.

The upbeat verdict that Britain’s slump is at an end came from the National Institute of Economic and Social Research after official figures revealed the first gains in manufacturing output for 14 months, adding to a recent spate of signs of recovery.

Sigh of relief...

best day on wall street in a while .........30 year auction went great

bonds doing great.....stocks as well....even gold

FULL STEAM AHEAD!


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/befdb077d048.jpeg[/atsimg]


Music. Wine. Dance. All our troubles behind us as we sail into the glorious sunset...





"Cap'n. Somethin's coming in over the wireless. It's garbled, but it sounded like some kind of a warning."

"Hush up will you. It's my favorite dance. Don't be a bore. Ladies, this way if you please..."

An effectively insolvent banking system stopped lending, house prices plunged, households stopped spending and the economy became trapped in a vicious circle that resembled the 1930s.

All that has been arrested, and Britain is probably the first major economy out of recession. But even though this is a major victory, the Bank and Treasury deserve only one cheer – first, because the problem was largely of their making and, second, because the long road to recovery that lies ahead is littered with perilous obstacles.

The reason is simple: we have not dealt with the massive overhang of debt racked up by individuals and governments over the past decade or so. In the 1930s, the flipside of mass bankruptcy, bank failures and record unemployment was that in a relatively short time private debt levels dropped back down to manageable levels. This time, we have avoided the bankruptcy; the consequence is that we still need to repay the debt.

Inconvenient article

Hey all what do you make of this...?
Are they alone or on behalf of covert government?
2 Japanese Carrying $134 Bil Worth Of U.S. Bonds Detained in Italy
www.japantoday.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

USA securities for 96 billion euros.

249 bonds of the Federal Reserve of the United States, each with nominal value of 500 million dollars, as well as 10 Kennedy bonds each of 1 billion dollars in value, hidden in the double bootom of a suit case, for a total of a good 134 billion dollars, equal to more than 96 billion euros.

This is how much was sequestered [don't know legal implication of this term] at the internation railway station in Chiasso, at the Swiss-Italian border, functionaries of the Territorial Operational Section of Chiasso, in collaboration with soldiers/members of the Financial Police ......

......Apart from the securities the Japanese men were carrying a considerable sum of original bank documents.

Investigations are underway to establish the identity and the origin of both the bonds and the bank documents that have also been impounded. If the securities are authentic, based on regulations in place, the penalty applicable to the possessors [of the bonds] could reach 38 billion euros, equivalent to 40% of the sum in excess of the acceptable baggage allowance of 10 thousand euro.

(English Translation of this:
www.gdf.it...

More Here

[edit on 11-6-2009 by burntheships]

Aah, I see that Pause made a cameo appearance.

So what's new, Pause?
An asteroid hit your swimming pool?
The plants needed to be watered, anyway?

Originally posted by pause4thought
FULL STEAM AHEAD!


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/befdb077d048.jpeg[/atsimg]


Music. Wine. Dance. All our troubles behind us as we sail into the glorious sunset...

Pause, there is no one aboard that ship.
No, I'm not kidding.
www.dailymail.co.uk...


martini and gin we sip
all aboard a sinking ship
the stern went under, but i don't care
as long as my butt's not there

my butt is sitting on a chair
the ship is sinking, that's not fair
was it foolish or was it wise
to ask Bartender for more ice?



[edit on 6/11/2009 by stander]

reply to post by burntheships


I'd personally love to know why they regulate how much money/currency/wealth we can travel with? Honestly.. how does that even make sense?

Then again, there is obviously something very fishy with these fellas... perhaps it is true our government is financed by the criminal elites of the World.

reply to post by DangerDeath


Yeah, they are declaring that they are out of the Recession because their Triple A rating was about to be downgraded, that is the reason now the propaganda machine is just like here in the US doing every thing they can to keep the illusion alive and well so they don't lose their ratings either.

I remember that only a week ago it was calls to downgrade the UK ratings.



Occurs they are now officially out of the "recession"

reply to post by marg6043


Well.... to be fair.....

the article was at least the funniest thing I read all day.

UK is on the verge of economic collapse, ratings being downgraded etc.... and their economic institutions are claiming they are out of the recession. LOL.

The people get what they deserve for believing BS like this.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Well I tell you here in the US those Cheerleaders has been working day and night since February after Obama passed the second bailout bill, got to keep the investors motivated while the printing presses are at full gear.