The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Originally posted by GreenBicMan

I don think we would be the "USA" anymore.. perhaps apart then of the NWO.. if you think the SP500 could go to 50,000 (not saying you do) I also think you should consider not living in the "america" we know anymore.. thats just my opinion of course

Of course the U.S. won't be the same. And the future generation and our generation will not have the same opportunities as other generations did. I mean I'll give you an example of what the government is trying to do. Say a company has a revenue stream of (Price*Quantity) at 16. So the price was 2 and they sold 8. Now say that the financial crisis occurred and deflation occurred a long with lower demand. So it the price went to 1 and the quantity 6. Now they only have a revenue of 6 from 16. Now the government tries to INFLATE everything and the price now goes to 12 and the quantity they sold is now only 2. So they have a revenue of 24.

It looks like the company and economy is doing better since REVENUE is increasing. But the Quantity that was demanded from them went from 8 before the crisis to 2 during the inflationary period. Yet revenue increased by 50%.

So yes stocks, revenues and GDP may increase, but if inflation and unemployment increases and demand decreases, does it really mean that things are *better* or does it mean that things just *look* better?

[edit on 3-6-2009 by RetinoidReceptor]

reply to post by RetinoidReceptor


Yes..

I see..

Also.. people who are not in the markets that take that ride would be SEVERELY PUNISHED..

At some point I have to agree the stock market is a sick related function of the economy in an instance like that

Even though the dollar sucks long term, in the short term it still proves to be the currency due to its reserve status. The pound is almost down 2% against the dollar, the euro is down 1% and the Yen is basically flat against the dollar.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by RetinoidReceptor]

Also Natural Gas is down 10% today due to an expectation that there will be a large stock pile in the report due out tomorrow because of the inventory rise in oil.

GBM looks like uncle Ben molested you ....i don't know why you hold out hope for this fella....

keep postin' i enjoy your insights.....and opinions

anyone think the gold price has a ceiling around 1250 due to the lack of world Jewelry demand

50,000 Dow ....in the wake up deleveraging and the biggest credit boom going bust.....hgh unemployment...and a broken consumption model.....what are we smoking today......oh ya it will be that "magick inflation" geenie ......ya minimum wages will go to 30$ and ave. salary will go to 200,000$.......sold to you



[edit on 3-6-2009 by cpdaman]

late day spike 8656....10 min to go...........

uncle ben pump job? 8676 close

[edit on 3-6-2009 by cpdaman]

www.cnbc.com...

Bill Gross from Pimco: Obama should cut spending AND raise taxes.



We all knew it would have to happen eventually.

Originally posted by cpdaman
GBM looks like uncle Ben molested you ....i don't know why you hold out hope for this fella....

keep postin' i enjoy your insights.....and opinions

anyone think the gold price has a ceiling around 1250 due to the lack of world Jewelry demand

50,000 Dow ....in the wake up deleveraging and the biggest credit boom going bust.....hgh unemployment...and a broken consumption model.....what are we smoking today......oh ya it will be that "magick inflation" geenie ......ya minimum wages will go to 30$ and ave. salary will go to 200,000$.......sold to you



[edit on 3-6-2009 by cpdaman]

I think Gold is being kept down not only because of luxury gold sales being at historic lows, but also the deep drop in electronic manufacturing, in which gold is used in production or in finished products as a conductor.

Those two sectors are the largest areas of gold sales.

Oh look someone saved the DOW (Surprise!?)

I am running out of reasons to watch the markets.

The Federal reserves decision to head off a complete financial collapse with massive bailouts seemed like a wise proactive move at the time, but is this report correct?

JPM using TARP money to blockade heating oil!

the shenanigans I warned about last Friday continue with JPMorgan (JPM) using OUR TARP MONEY to rent a 2M barrel tanker in order NOT to deliver heating oil to US consumers so they can jack up the price. At $35,000-40,000 a day, JPM is using the money our government gave them at a rate of $1M a month to keep $130M worth of oil (that they bought with the money our government gave them) out of the weekly inventory report where those barrels may harm JPM’s speculative position. HOW IS THIS EVEN LEGAL? This is PURE speculation. JPM has no need for this oil and no clients looking for delivers - they are buying oil for the sole purpose of driving up prices and selling it for more than they paid for it, creating a false demand for 2M barrels (and this is just one example out of hundreds) when there is, in fact, a record global glut.

seekingalpha.com...

and

www.reuters.com...

[edit on 3-6-2009 by fromunclexcommunicate]

reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate


Sure looks that way, infact, Ticker Guy writes on it well...

Oh Really Mr. Hoenig? (and JPM)

So let me see if I get this right.

The Taxpayer hands JP Morgan billions of dollars to bail them out and keep them from potentially being declared insolvent.

In return for this JP Morgan spends that money speculating on the price of oil, and in fact does one better - they take physical delivery and lease a ship to store it in, thereby withholding the oil from the market and propping up the price, hoping to be able to sell that oil at a higher price later.

In the meantime, however, they are partially responsible for the rise in gas prices, meaning that not only did they collect taxpayer money once, but they are effectively partly responsible for you the consumer paying a second tax, this time through higher fuel prices at the gas pump.

Then, when the time is right (for them) they will sell the oil and profit a second time.

You, the taxpayer, will pay for all three of these actions.

And we, the idiots in America, along with a bribed and purchased Congress, will allow them to get away with it.

More at link

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
www.cnbc.com...

Bill Gross from Pimco: Obama should cut spending AND raise taxes.



We all knew it would have to happen eventually.

Inflation is likely three to five years down the road, and investors should stay relatively close to the front end of the yield curve where the bond prices are protected by the Fed position of low Fed funds and interest rates, said Bill Gross, co-CIO and founder of Pimco.

and the fed will either let the curve go higher but this will impact other debt payment rates.....which as gross says would hurt the green shoots (which is obvious) ....he says the fed may monetize more.......and well

www.pimco.com...

But the Fed must tread carefully here. These purchases result in an expansion of the Fed’s balance sheet, which ultimately could have inflationary implications. In turn, nervous holders of dollar obligations are beginning to look for diversification in other currencies, selling Treasury bonds in the process.

Could have inflationary imlications underlined in his article.....but it appears to me captial flight is the immediate danger in his mind.....since he stated in his other link inflation appears 3-5 years down the road....but he could be talking his book

[edit on 3-6-2009 by cpdaman]

The S&P P/E is around 120, check the chart S&P P/E for the past 5 years

Lookin mighty steep eh?

reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate


Ive long said that the only people that should be allowed to buy and sell commodities are those who produce it and take eventual delivery. We cannot let Wall Street hedge funds determine the prices of the commodities that our economy and well being rely upon.

If we stopped letting the big money jerk such things around they would be forced to invest the money in real businesses with real jobs and real products. Our economy sucks because it is all based on short term paper profits.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by disgustedbyhumanity]

Well it may be official very soon if not already America is facing a job Market collapse.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate

 

Ive long said that the only people that should be allowed to buy and sell commodities are those who produce it and take eventual delivery. We cannot let Wall Street hedge funds determine the prices of the commodities that our economy and well being rely upon.

If we stopped letting the big money jerk such things around they would be forced to invest the money in real businesses with real jobs and real products. Our economy sucks because it is all based on short term paper profits.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by disgustedbyhumanity]

that is a great point! the damn finance industry lobbyists and high powered lawyers would stiffle that .....unless we as a people reach a critical mass and do what works protest and or boycott....

Market stats since this thread started 10-17-2009. Gold is still leading equities but I think we see a reversal in the dollar and treasuries rates which will send gold back below $800 in the next 6 months.

SPY (S&P 500 index fund)

10/17/2008 $93.21
6/2/2008 $93.65
Gain $.44 + $1.97 dividends + $2.41 (+2.58%)

IWM (S&P Small Cap 600 Index Fund

10/17/2008 $52.10
6/2/2009 $52.43

Gain $.33 + $.65 = +$.88 (+1.69%)

EFA (MCSI International Index Fund

10/17/2008 $44.51
6/2/2009 $47.58

Gain $3.07 + $.54 dividend = +$3.61(+8.1%)

EEM (Emerging Markets Index Fund)

10/17/2008 $24.40
6/2/2009 $32.93

Gain $8.53 + $.34 dividend = + $8.88 (+36.4%)

GOLD (Gold ETF)
10/17/2008 $77.71
6/2/2008 $94.41

Gain +16.70 (+21.4%)

US Dollar index

10/17/2008 $82.75
6/2/2009 $78.53

Gain - $5.22 (- 6.3%)

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by GreenBicMan

 

Oh, and where do I think we are headed on the short term?

Prob around 8200-8400 on the dow...

I think today was pretty telling

Nope. Today was one of those piggy-bank-upside-down day; not indicative of any trend. Even the market watchers are learning to see things as they are.

Poised to take profits after watching stocks climb higher in each of the four previous sessions, participants drove broad-based losses. However, the major indices were able to limit their decline by attracting enough support to make a strong finish.

Any sustainable downward trend will be fueled by the mini-collapse of crude oil prices. That will come around the time when the oil traders begin to save empty Coke bottles in order to fill them with Brent Crude.


[edit on 6/3/2009 by stander]

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


Some interesting data there, dbh. Nice going. A good talking point.

The longer-term trend still clearly points downwards, all the same:


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/026d963e176e.png[/atsimg]

Source

Another aspect of the overall picture worth bearing in mind as we reflect on future prospects for economic growth is the national debt in the US (-not to mention in other developed countries):


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b840cf8aba48.gif[/atsimg]

Source


Of course the question is: is the upturn seen over the last few months sustainable? To answer that question you have to ask yourself: are the economic realities more indicative of weakness or of dynamism? What are the hard facts with respect to demand for goods and services, the likely level of security of investments in business, prospects for employment and tax returns, etc.? Ditto for overseas trading partners.

Taking all the above into account certainly leaves me feeling somber; it also explains why so many in this thread believe recent gains are not only unsustainable, but, if truth be told, bordering on bizarre.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

 

Some interesting data there, dbh. Nice going. A good talking point.

The longer-term trend still clearly points downwards, all the same:


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/026d963e176e.png[/atsimg]

Source

Another aspect of the overall picture worth bearing in mind as we reflect on future prospects for economic growth is the national debt in the US (-not to mention in other developed countries):


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b840cf8aba48.gif[/atsimg]

Source

well you should update that graph because we are well over 900 now....

took out the January highs .............aiming next for the nov 08 highs....don't see any way in hell it can break 1100 though

[edit on 3-6-2009 by cpdaman]