The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Even LEAP2020 is saying that the governments put so much money in the system that they destroyed what was left of the free market and there's no way of seeing what's truly happening...for the average folk...

Here

In practical terms, this means that the indicators that everyone is accustomed to use for investment decisions, profitability, location, partnership, etc ... have become obsolete and that it is now necessary to find new relevant indicators to avoid making disastrous decisions.

The two other major themes addressed in this May 2009 issue of the GEAB are, first, the programmed failure of the two major economic stimulus plans: namely the Chinese and American plans, and, secondly, the United Kingdom’s appeal to the IMF for financial assistance by the end of summer 2009.

By the way, Bilderberg hinted at a deep and short depression instead of a decades long one... maybe that's good news...

reply to post by irishchic

I also believe that the "younger" among us have no earthly idea of what is yet to come

I take offense. I personally have found the Younger people are more aware of the situation, more aware of the lies, more prone to see the propaganda.. and less likely to divide our selves into "parties" in regards to the economy. And, not to mention, all in all, it was our Parents who created this crisis of over spending and debt to income ratio that eventually burst like a balloon expanding to much, to fast.

By the way, Bilderberg hinted at a deep and short depression instead of a decades long one... maybe that's good news...

I'm afraid I don't agree but really, is either alternative a good one? The reason I think this might be the worst case is that although it's going to be shorter, it's going to be deeper. Deep enough to cause enough, more immediate, anguish that the American people will sign onto anything, give up all their freedoms, just in order to catch another meal.

And what I think is a far more important factor here is that the short, sharp depression will also completely strip the American (and world) public from valuable time required to formulate a plan of action. The dark lords are fully aware that the US citizens are getting dangerously close to uprising, perhaps successfully. Already, 4 states have finalized and passed their documents (I don't really know what they're called) which basically tell the federal government to cease and desist. With 31 other states in the process of finalizing their own versions of the same document, there's a somewhat real possibility that the federals will be challenged. Those are absolutely fightin' words. So I think that had a lot to do with the decision to make this depression far deeper, but somewhat faster than the alternative... to steal time away and make the populace capitulate once and for all.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by Albertarocks]

reply to post by Rockpuck


No doubt, I might not agree with a lot everyone has to say, but thats not to say I am not informed. No doubt, all of what RP said there is the truth.. we are not so easily blinded

May 19 08:30 a.m. Building Permits Apr
May 19 08:30 a.m. Housing Starts Apr
May 20 10:30 a.m. Crude Inventories
May 20 02:00 p.m. FOMC Minutes
May 21 08:30 a.m. Initial Claims
May 21 10:00 a.m. Leading Indicators
May 21 10:00 a.m. Philadelphia Fed May

Important dates this week. I think Tuesday with building permits+housing starts will be a very big day and telling day./

reply to post by Rockpuck


Well...I would say then glady that you are in the minority and I'm pleased that you do "see more clearly!"

Honestly though,most that I come in contact with say 19-29 or so unless they have a family aren't nearly as aware as you obviously are and almost choose to be less-informed because it "suits their purposes."

Example last week: my sis is the HR Director for a major corporation on both East/West coast.
Hiring "freeze" in effect currently except a for few entry-level positions.
Interviewed several applicants last week for one such opening and when they were "asked about salary requirements" NOT ONE of 7 asked for less than 90K a year to start!!!
Plus full benefits,plus child care,plus 401K,and options.

Entry level...most were straight out of school with little job experience.

This is one example of what I am talking about the totally unrealistic expectations of so many simply because of what the levels prior to all of this have dictated.

She simply couldn't believe it.

I totally agree that the parents of many have caused issues that will shape their collective futures and habits as well.

The younger generation such as yourself are the hope for the future as I see it because you DO see ahead with open eyes but you are in the minority.

reply to post by irishchic

Honestly though,most that I come in contact with say 19-29 or so unless they have a family aren't nearly as aware as you obviously are and almost choose to be less-informed because it "suits their purposes."

Awareness on topics that don't reflect a need they have is not necessary to be aware of the picture as a whole:

People in their 20's often don't own a house: Housing prices don't worry them.

Our 401k's are miniscule, the fact that our parents lost 50% of their retirement is none-essentail to our own personal selves.

While unemployment is hurting my generation badly, it hurts older people worse.. fire the old guy making 120k a year and bring in 3 people in their 20's to work for 50k a year, dividing the work load. Even those older people not being laid off now have to worry about forced retirement.

So while some younger folks may not appear "aware" of the situations effecting people twice their age, it's not because it's hurting them and they don't know, most often, it has nothing to do with them.

As for the younguns your sister interviews.... ALWAYS ask for far more then what you truly expect to get.. It shows ambition, desire to earn more, move up etc. If you go into a professional job and ask for a low salary, on or below what the company expects.. well their opinion of you will reflect the opinion of yourself: How much am I worth?

Not picking a fight with you, but we are very, very aware of our situation that was handed to us. While the schematics of this disaster effect us less then any other age group at the moment, the vast majority of us could describe the situation as a whole.

Sure, some like me, and GBM are number nerds and simply prefer to immerse ourselves in such a World (opinions not mattering) but the vast majority of people, regardless of age, cannot tell you the explicit details of the economy, nor would I expect them to.

By the way, perhaps my generation may expect far more then what we deserve, but when you grow up in a society where your parents live like kings and queens off of plastic cards, only to have after 20 years that way of life vanish in an instant,, well .. it shouldn't be surprising of our wants: We learned from the masters of self gratification.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Even if I don't fully agree with you,I applaud your insight and clarity!

Also love that you can and do "use the language" wonderfully...it's a personal "bugaboo" of mine that so many cannot.

Glad that you are who you are and I predict a very bright future for you no matter what you choose to do!

[edit on 17-5-2009 by irishchic]

online.wsj.com...

Dare we breathe a sigh of hope?

Orsag: "Economy's Freefall Seems To Have Stopped"

and:

”Symmetry Scenario” Gives S&P 500 Decline More Room to Run "
Techy but wroth trying to sort through...

www.decisionpoint.com...

I'd sure welcome some insight on these charts!


[edit on 17-5-2009 by irishchic]

Sir Victor Blank is to step down as chairman of Lloyds Banking Group by June 2010. Decided not to seek re-election as chairman for another three years.

news.bbc.co.uk...

You would think he would want to lead the group out of this mess if the recovery in the UK is expected by 2011 or 2012?

Maybe the message got changed when someone ran "green chutes" through their spell checker.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by fromunclexcommunicate]

reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate


LMAOROF!!!

"Green Chutes" indeed...thanks for the laugh and the info!

online.wsj.com...

CITI sells 2 billion dollars worth of long term bonds and the WSJ reports it "shows strength". But they sold 10 year bonds at almost 9% interest...how does that show strength? And what idiots would buy these after what happened to the GM bond holders?

[edit on 17-5-2009 by RetinoidReceptor]

Nikkei opens -2% with banks leading down.

reply to post by RetinoidReceptor


It diffidently doesn't show strength... and the fact that Citi is not currently paying the interest on our Senior Preferred Shares, I would honestly call into questioning them paying interest on long term bonds at such obscene interest rates..

Citi is essentially a corpse with ropes around it's wrists and legs making it do an obscene and inappropriate dance.

[edit on 5/17/2009 by Rockpuck]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

 

It diffidently doesn't show strength... and the fact that Citi is not currently paying the interest on our Senior Preferred Shares, I would honestly call into questioning them paying interest on long term bonds at such obscene interest rates..

Citi is essentially a corpse with ropes around it's wrists and legs making it do an obscene and inappropriate dance.

[edit on 5/17/2009 by Rockpuck]

and they gotta feed the zombies cause the stress tests say they are fine..........LOFL

the feds put the better part of 12 trillion on the line to artificially support the credit markets and trade sour bank debt/loans with a MKT price of .30$ for full par value ......and the banks aren't lending.........

the economy will be starved of credit and unemployment and consumption will be in a downward spiral......

Is there any way for the gov't to set up a entity that will loan to the PRIVATE sector...and consumers



[edit on 17-5-2009 by cpdaman]

Originally posted by irishchic
Honestly though,most that I come in contact with say 19-29 or so unless they have a family aren't nearly as aware as you obviously are and almost choose to be less-informed because it "suits their purposes."

One thing that's interesting about this cohort is that they're largely disconnected from the MSM. This disconnect has it's advantages and it's disadvantages. In some ways, people wind up being more "awake" and in other ways you miss a lot by not at least monitoring the MSM.

With the youngest adults; CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC are being "replaced" by the blogosphere, message boards, and twitter.


[edit on 17-5-2009 by theWCH]

I'm afraid I don't agree but really, is either alternative a good one?

I agree... I mispoke earlier... I meant good news in terms of economic good news... but on the overall picture, it's worse. A short depression means short time for revolution. Then after that it's gonna be ``Obama is the messiah, he saved us from the depression``... and with all the freedoms we'll lose in the process...

A long depression means more time for revolution and that is bad for the PTB...

Just a question... if I buy a GM car... and GM moves to China... what happens to the warranty?

On a personnal note, I just learned that my father is a member of the Rosicrucian Order... I'm quite shocked...

reply to post by cpdaman


Are you by chance of the same mindset as me? That we are, and will continue to be in a Deflationary Spiral and the Fed's attempts at stemming the downward fall has been if anything, futile?

Seeing as the Mae's and Mac where set up by the Government (GSE's) I don't see why the government doesn't directly issue mortgages, and perhaps other debt.. since these institutions buy almost all mortgages anyways, why not originate them? Probably because it would compete with banks and win, and that without the GSE's buying mortgages from the banks, they loose a huge portion of their profits...

I suppose when this all first began, we should have been asking our selves who was corrupt enough in our Government to create these GSE's to act as repositories of Mortgages, funneling trillions into the banking sector?

reply to post by Vitchilo

Just a question... if I buy a GM car... and GM moves to China... what happens to the warranty?

Wouldn't change.. their corporate centers would remain in the US, production would occur in China.

Ford has already begun much of it's production in Mexico, I believe they will eventually do the majority of assembly in Mexico as well. Warranties have not changed though.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Thats exactly what they should have done. Taken over all the consumer loans from the banks and issue new consumer loans directly. Interest rate 4%. At 4% interest rate you could cut the housing debt by 30% and over a 30 year term the goverment gets everything back plus some profit. Credit card debt would be handled ona one time basis, and then turned over to the banks for new credit. Banks would serve as middlemen getting a fee for each new loan and a annual stipend for servicing it. They would still be able to lend to consumers but business loans would make up the bulk of their loan book.

It would have accomplished everything needed.

Banks would have reduced their leverage to low levels making them all solvent again. Derivatives would no longer be an issue without banks failing. If any banks couldn't survive the loans being paid back, then they deserve to fail. Banks win but pay a price for thei past indescetions by losing their windfall profits on the housing industry.

The consumer wins as they get much lower payments. If they are upside down the payments would reflect the actual current value of the home. If some principal is forgiven then upon resale, goverment has the right to reclaim some of the profits. No relief is given on credit card debt except a change to a fixed 4% rate and reasonable monthly payments that would pay off debt within a 7 year term.

Goverment wins as they don't lose any money in the program or at least minimal amounts. They get consumers healthy which in turn will help solve some of the unemployment and economic issues. It should also boost home prices as most houses don't get foreclosed on and low rates make payments affordable. This will all serve to increase tax revenue.

It would not be inflationary as this would simply be moving debt to one hand from another. No new money would be created. Going forward the banks would be held to a much stricter capital requirement which would help keep money velocity in check.

The biggest challenge to this is convincing the American people that this is in their best interest. They should remember that the goverment creates all the money. By distrubiting it to banks to then mede it out is costing us citizens a boatload of money. Let's get rid of the middleman already.