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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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Good news for the older crowd in the jobless lines,


Free Viagra, Other Drugs for Jobless,

Pfizer is unveiling a new program Thursday that will let people who have lost their jobs and health insurance keep taking some widely prescribed Pfizer medications—including Lipitor and Viagra—for free for up to a year.


www.cnbc.com...

Well can not leave those poor jobless middle age man having to go everyday no only deperate, limp and deflated, what a guy to do.





posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Salaried workers, like parts, engineers, managers sometimes, they get unemployment and will be included.

Sales persons making only commission... unlikely to receive unemployment. They don't belong to a Union, and cannot show a steady income to base unemployment off of.

Unemployment numbers are so screwed up it aint even funny.. for instance I being under 24 years of age and unemployed am considered to live with my parents. Thats what FASFA tells me anyways.. one hell of a commute considering they live about 3k miles from me lol.

I also cannot collect unemployment because I worked for an agency that had me contract with different banks.. since I was not contracted with the last bank I worked for at least 6months, no unemployment! Talk about getting the shaft all around.. And I STILL have not won the lottery??


And I AM a Dreamer, I just dream about realistic plausible things.
Except the lottery... dream about that quite often.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:29 AM
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Let's face it. We may not agree with what the government and federal reserve is doing, but the fact is, they are doing it (fiscal spending and loose monetary policies). These programs WILL work in the short term (jobs will be created, for example, as racism counsellors at county centers (I took this from the British MP who said that is what his government is doing) which produce and do nothing overall).

But it will be solely government stimulated. The question is, what will happen when inflation rises and they have to turn off the outflow? It probably means the economy will go right back to where it started.

Do not confuse disagreeing with the Fed and Government to thinking they will totally be unsuccessful in the short term. If you add a zero to everyone's bank account, things will get a boost...until it is seen as bogus. So do not be shocked to see things get "substantially" better after the government has guaranteed and spent a whole year's GDP.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by RetinoidReceptor]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


Basically summed up as: The Gov. is treating symptoms, not causes.

If you're like me who believes our Country relies to heavily on Credit, and that average credit lines need to be permanently shrunk .. then not seeing a "rebound to the way things where" is a very good thing.

I would like to see the system collapse, and see slow growth from then on out without the need for expanding credit.

*sigh*... Imagine being in my Generation, fresh out of college and realizing .. wow .. what a # up World our Fathers handed us. We will begin our families and careers as the single most burdened middle class this country has ever known...



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


Basically summed up as: The Gov. is treating symptoms, not causes.

If you're like me who believes our Country relies to heavily on Credit, and that average credit lines need to be permanently shrunk .. then not seeing a "rebound to the way things where" is a very good thing.

I would like to see the system collapse, and see slow growth from then on out without the need for expanding credit.

*sigh*... Imagine being in my Generation, fresh out of college and realizing .. wow .. what a # up World our Fathers handed us. We will begin our families and careers as the single most burdened middle class this country has ever known...


Well I also think that after this huge outflow of credit and inflation occurs, the government will NEED to 1) raise interest rates and contract the money supply, 2) cut the budget deficits (Obama already said he wants to do that by half meaning no more stimulus spending), 3) raise taxes (basically they are already doing this and will need to do so further).

This will send another shock wave through the economy since the recent "run up" was because of the government. Then you will see things getting worse again sending people into a panic and everything happens all over again.

This is because the government CANNOT fix the economy with more debt and inflation. It will not work in the long term. The short term it WILL (probably for like 2 quarters).

Then how will they fix the mess



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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OUCH....

Machine Tool YTD Consumption Down 68.6%


U.S. machine tool consumption totaled $162.94 million in March, according to AMTDA, the American Machine Tool Distributors' Association, and AMT - The Association For Manufacturing Technology.

This total, as reported by companies participating in the USMTC program, was up 22.3% from February but down 71.9% from the total of $579.73 million reported for March 2008.

With a year-to-date total of $397.56 million, 2009 is down 68.6% compared with 2008.

More at link

For those who HAVE read Atlas Shrugged, while it doesn't explicitly go into it, as companies went under, demand for product (and machinery) declined, and as a result those producers also went under until the nation was left with out-dated, rusting and falling apart machinery that didn't work, or at least work properly, anymore.

Of course, also in that book, the government took more and more control of those companies (and their critical suppliers - as they could) that were "friends" of the government officials.

It is very shocking to see that book become reality



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Markets still up, looks like volume is low though, but still some rather dramatic volatility for such low volume.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


futures expiration my good friend



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


That will do it eh lol.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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Denninger has out done himself, in his tirade against a couple of folks (from GBMs side of the street) who claim the recession is over, he gives a quiz that asks real hard questions and asks for the answers - the answers of course, will show whether or not we are actually on the road to recovery.

the post is Here the quiz portion I present below


This is for a grade, and you are expected to show you work. There are 100 points, I'm a tough Professor and grade on a 7-point straight scale, not a curve.

1.
This recession, as with the one previous, was caused by too much debt. In the previous one (2000-03) the debt was centered in Technology Companies that were levered up to their necks and had no reasonable expectation of being able to actually turn a GAAP profit. Most never did and went under, putting lots of well-paid employees on the street, killing demand for industrial and especially computer products while producing a nasty little business-led recession. Instead of taking our lumps we as a nation "reflated" by driving malinvestment into housing and convinced millions of Americans to take cash out of their house that didn't really exist, replacing it with debt. The IMF claims that the total to be defaulted or lost is around $2.5 trillion; my figure is $2.5-3 trillion for residential housing only, another $trillion or so in commercial real estate, and $300-500 billion in credit cards. About $700 billion has been defaulted so far, leaving another $1.7 trillion (on the low end) to somewhere north of $3 trillion (on the high.) For 20 points, explain how, with the debt still present in the economy, we're going to refinance it this time around. Please be specific as to how we're going to accomplish this. Magical thinking earns an automatic zero.

2.
During the 2000 decade we "pulled forward" demand through those aforementioned cash-out HELOCs and similar shenanigans. We also drove our savings rate to at or below zero. This added 5-10% to GDP. I will be polite and call it 5%, just to make the question easier. For 10 points, please explain how we will replace this 5% of GDP that is now permanently gone - a task required to generate positive growth. For the other 10 tell us how we manage capital formation (since we can't do it with debt any more) without taking another 4% off GDP in the form of savings (the consumer is 70% of the economy, roughly; if the savings rate stabilizes around 6%, which it appears to be, that's roughly the net change.)

3.
We operated at a "run rate" of approximately 14 million automobiles for the years 2003-2007. These were sold on the premise of "zero percent interest" financing as well as rolling over the previous car loan balance into the new vehicle. The latter can only be done once and the former is gone forever. That is, we "pulled forward demand" in the car business too. Current demand for vehicles is around 9 million, which is unreasonably low, but a 20% loss of demand, permanently, is almost certain. The Big Three alone employ roughly one in ten people in this country between them and their suppliers. For 10 points please explain what the 2 million people that will be rendered permanently unemployed by this reduction in capacity will do for a job that can pay anything close to UAW Union Wages. For the other 10 please explain the hit to GDP that will result from losing 2% of the workforce, along with the debt they hold that will be forced to default.

4.
We have somewhere around 14 million unoccupied housing units (apartments, townhouses, condos and homes.) Most of these were built during the boom years. Many are second homes but there is approximately 10% "excess capacity" in primary homes, and what's worse is that builders are still building! Much of this inventory is "hidden" in the form of defaulted mortgages where the lender is literally allowing the current occupant to live free, having sent them an NOD but failing to proceed with foreclosure, or they have foreclosed but are holding the inventory back. Roughly 14% of GDP was in some way connected with home building prior to the downturn. Now add in the demographics; the boomers are beginning to retire and over the next 10-20 years will be vacating all those second homes as they are forced to sell them to replace the money that was in their 401k before it got turned into a 201k. For 20 points please explain how GDP expands and we have a robust economy when 14% of the economy has disappeared, there is more than a year's worth of official inventory available now, there's at least another year's worth being intentionally "held back" and worse, by the time those two years are consumed we will have 10-20 years of demand that can be met by boomers downsizing and selling their assets off to live!

5.
And finally, the last question is in three parts. For 10 points, please choose any of Wells Fargo, Citibank or Bank of America and break down both their balance sheet and all off-balance-sheet exposures to residential housing, detailing the following: 1) Acquisition cost, 2) current marked value, 3) the formula or other means used to mark that asset, including all variables traced to their derivation or origin and 4) the performance of said asset held to maturity given questions 1-4 above. In particular I am interested in held Option ARMs and HELOCs although all classes must be identified in detail, including specific identification of the unsecured portion of any loan outstanding, whether in security or whole loan form. For 5 of the remaining points repeat the exercise for all commercial construction loans and C&I exposure. Your answers must include exactly how insolvent these institutions are, reduced to a dollar amount. For the final five points on the exam explain how the banks can earn their way out of the hole in credit card and other receivables when the rocketing interest rates are forcing those who can pay to do so immediately, thereby creating an ever-smaller pool by the day of those who can't, and for whom the recovery on the unsecured portion of their debt, irrespective of the interest rate, will be zero.


So I challenge GBM to answer the questions in this quiz, since he is our "contrarian" of record



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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Hey guys here is some news for ya

Chrysler To Shutter 789 Dealerships
Automaker Cites Antiquated Network, Too Much Internal Competition

I started a thread about it but am sure that not many people out there understand that this is the first domino in a long line yet to come.
xoxo



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by xoxo stacie
Hey guys here is some news for ya

Chrysler To Shutter 789 Dealerships
Automaker Cites Antiquated Network, Too Much Internal Competition

I started a thread about it but am sure that not many people out there understand that this is the first domino in a long line yet to come.
xoxo


That's lower than expected, must be time for a rally

oh boy,..

Morgan Stanley bank upgrade helps financials


NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- U.S. financial stocks stepped firmly into the green on Thursday as the banking sector caught a lift from a pair of industry upgrades by Morgan Stanley. Morgan's large-cap and mid-cap bank analysts, Betsy Graseck and Ken Zerbe, late Wednesday upgraded their industry views to attractive from in-line.

The analysts believe that, "nonperforming loan growth will peak sooner, rather than later, due to stabilizing jobless claims; improved liquidity in credit markets and increased competition among lenders should lower corporate borrowing rates; and, pre-provision earnings are running above the bear case, which is accelerating capital repair."

more at link

I guess they forgot about all those automakers that will be out of work next month, and all the supplier to those automakers that will be out of work next month, and all the defaults that will follow on credit accounts (CCs, mortgages, HELOCs, etc) as a result.

Gee can I get these guys to review my FICO score (not that it needs help) but hey, if I could get a "perfect" upgrade ....

And it just keeps coming, Now the .gov will be in the Credit Card business by Memorial Day

Obama Calls For Credit Card Reform At New Mexico Town Hall


Speaking to a crowd of 2,300 at a town hall-style meeting in a suburb of Albuquerque, N.M., President Barack Obama issued a call for Congress to move swiftly to enact stronger regulations of the credit card industry.

Obama told the crowd, which included roughly 50 local residents who had sent him letters and emails, that it was time for swift action on a bill being debated in the Senate to enact certain consumer protections.

"I'm calling on Congress to take final action … and send it to my desk so I can sign it into law by Memorial Day," he said. "There is no time for delay."

The House has already passed a measure commonly called the Credit Card Holders' Bill of Rights and the Senate is debating and amending its own version of the measure this week. Proponents hope the Senate will be able to vote on the bill this week.

More at link

and coming...

Treasury asks for control of derivatives market


...In a two-page letter sent Wednesday to congressional leaders, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said he wants to create a central electronic-based system that would track the buying and selling of derivatives. He also wants to ensure that financial firms selling the instruments have enough capital on hand in case they default and subject them to stringent standards of conduct and new reporting requirements.

The legislative proposal is the administration's first major step in overhauling the nation's financial regulatory system.

"All (over-the-counter) derivatives dealers and all other firms whose activities in those markets create large exposures to counterparties should be subject to a robust regime of prudential supervision and regulation," Geithner wrote in his letter.

"Key elements of that robust regulatory regime must include conservative capital requirements, business conduct standards, reporting requirements and conservative requirements relating to initial margins on counterparty credit exposures," he adds...

more at link

I leave it to Karl Denninger to explain why this is not a "good enough" thing

[edit on 5/14/09 by redhatty]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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Duhh bet the link would help out now wouldn't it?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It seem's that Gm is also starting to get thing's in line. They are going to be paying their suppliers early. They site the current economic down turn etc but sounds more like they are ready to throw in the towel and run away too.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Good news for the older crowd in the jobless lines,


Free Viagra, Other Drugs for Jobless,

Pfizer is unveiling a new program Thursday that will let people who have lost their jobs and health insurance keep taking some widely prescribed Pfizer medications—including Lipitor and Viagra—for free for up to a year.




How about supplying the masses with

Vitamin C -
Oregano oil as antiviral -
Probiotics
Pure cranberry juice for our kidneys -
Vitamin B6 for respiratory -

and these little sweeties - to help keep us off the Lipitor..
6 Proven Herbs To Lower Cholesterol Naturally
www.lowercholesterolnews.com...

I'll let someone else cover the Viagra.

(I think they want to insure that people are busy with "other things" - while the nation goes down the tube)

**Remember
It is the pharmaceutical companies that dictate to the WHO -










[edit on 14-5-2009 by spinkyboo]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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And what's up with all these I'm seeing lately???

UPDATE 2-BofA says Asia-Pacific M&A head Desai to leave
www.reuters.com...

UPDATE 1-JPMorgan China chairman Charles Li says to quit
www.reuters.com...

These guys all jumping before the Titanic goes down???



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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Do you think this Admin is wasting no time in implementing it's agenda?

Frank wants broad limits on exec. pay for all firms


(Rep. Barney) Frank said that there should be limits on compensation "not in terms of dollars but in terms of rules," arguing that the current compensation structure enjoyed by financial executives incentivized risk-taking that led to the current crisis.

"Remember, we're not talking about purely private companies — people forget this — we're talking about public corporations," Frank said in an interview with Bloomberg News. "When you become a public corporation, you're availing yourselves of a framework of law that gives you limited liability, protects you in various ways."

Frank expressed a preference that Congress institute a mandate for federal regulators to take a more aggressive tack against companies. He also said he'd like to see the regulations extend beyond companies in the financial sector.

Frank did not address specifics of a compensation package, but seemed to indicate that legislation would open the door to federal regulators playing a role in bonus structuring. He specifically rejected caps on salary, but called also for more constraints on the amount of money firms are allowed to leverage in investments.



Umm, what is Barney's definition of a private company? One that never goes IPO?

fixed tags

[edit on 5/14/09 by redhatty]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty


Umm, what is Barney's definition of a private company? One that never goes IPO?



[edit on 5/14/09 by redhatty]


This is pretty scary stuff. How to confirm everything the right predicted would happen with the Dems in power. Public companies have always been subject to much more regulation than private firms but once the govt starts trying to dictate executive pay, we are heading into very dangerous territory.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by Night Watchman
 


Thats correct

We have been rewriting contracts and limiting pay

This is all of course b/c the public put the congress on a witchhunt

You could say this is the "average american's" fault

I will def. get flammed for saying this



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
Thats correct

We have been rewriting contracts and limiting pay

This is all of course b/c the public put the congress on a witchhunt

You could say this is the "average american's" fault

I will def. get flammed for saying this


It should matter not what the public cries out for, our elected officials SHOULD know the limits of the scope of their power. They SHOULD know the distinction between what is legal and proper for the Federal Gov to do & to NOT DO.

But you are correct in that, since the GD, the american population has turned to the .gov to fix or control things that they cannot , the american people are, in many cases, responsible for the .gov gaining the power it has.

That still does not release the obligation of the .gov to enforce the laws already written BEFORE enacting new ones that give it even more power.

But as we have already seen in this "banking crisis", the .gov will do whatever it is paid to do, not what it SHOULD do.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


That is why I find the unemployment numbers deceiving, is many people that will never be counted, that makes the number a littler bit better for the government.




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