The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by stander


Read the articles already posted, the truth is my friend banks will never reverse to what they used to be and the factors are very clear, too much unemployment and not way to fix that problem.

Because our government is not putting much effort on how to make this nation productive again.

A nation that can not produce and keep its work force making money is a nation that can not support itself with credit alone.

So the whole mess we are now and its true roots has not been addressed yet.

reply to post by stander


You know that the same way that this so call "economist" are doing their figures is the same way that our own government is predicting a future of grow while borrowing on taxable income that is not there to predict how well the nation will do.

So what is the difference? is call deception and right now in the Markets everyone is doing it.

reply to post by stander


That is why our markets has become "unpredictable" but is so that our government has become as unpredictable as our markets.

Don't you love all this "better than expected" new trend.

Originally posted by redhatty

Stander, maybe you missed THIS which clearly states on page 2

Sales taxes were $452 million lower (-50.9%) than last April

They were getting it from the Controller Office. I couldn't find it.
Arnold prepared for the lean times, so the losses are not that bad.

Sales tax collections year to date are
short $327 million (-1.8%) from the
2009-10 Budget Act. Income taxes
were $653 million lower (-1.7%) than
expected, and corporate taxes were
$788 million lower than expected
(-9.5%). The State’s other revenue
streams were $299 million below
(-6.7%) the estimates. Because the
2009-10 Budget Act contained actual
revenue through February 2009,
these disparities only occurred in the
months of March and April.

It's all matter of accounting. There is no one in California spending 50% less than in the previous month.

reply to post by stander


Why are you so focused on month to month when the reports are based on year to year???

Do you need to manipulate what you read to justify your stance?

Nowhere did KD say month ot month either, you added that interpretation to his article.

I am quite certain that there are plenty of people in Cali that are spending 50% less this year than they did last year.

How Banks are doing it,

If it wasn't for "government intervention Banks will not be doing as "good" as they are doing, deception at its finest

Banks Won Concessions on Tests,
Fed Cut Billions Off Some Initial Capital-Shortfall Estimates; Tempers Flare at Wells,

The Federal Reserve significantly scaled back the size of the capital hole facing some of the nation's biggest banks shortly before concluding its stress tests, following two weeks of intense bargaining.

In addition, according to bank and government officials, the Fed used a different measurement of bank-capital levels than analysts and investors had been expecting, resulting in much smaller capital deficits.

The overall reaction to the stress tests, announced Thursday, has been generally positive. But the haggling between the government and the banks shows the sometimes-tense nature of the negotiations that occurred before the final results were made public.

What a way to look better than expected.

online.wsj.com...

So they don't need to "raise" all the capital after all to look "better than expected"

Bank of America's final gap was $33.9 billion, down from an earlier estimate of more than $50 billion.

Wells Fargo's capital hole shrank to $13.7 billion, Before adjusting for first-quarter results and other factors, the figure was $17.3.

Fifth Third Bancorp, the Fed was preparing to tell the Cincinnati-based bank to find $2.6 billion in capital, but the final tally dropped to $1.1 billion.

This one is a beauty of deception Is nice to know how our government kiss to the Saudi price that own most of the share on this financial.

Citigroup's capital shortfall was initially pegged at roughly $35 billion, according to people familiar with the matter. The ultimate number was $5.5 billion.

SunTrust Banks Inc. also persuaded the Fed to significantly reduce the size of its estimated capital gap to $2.2 billion

PNC Financial Services Group Inc., 600 millions.

Regions Financial Corp.'s $2.5 billion deficit.

Thanks to a government that is owned by many of this financial groups throught campaign funds they are doing Better than expected.

After all BofA have the Vice President to lobby for them.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by marg6043]

Treasurys stay down after trade deficit data
May 12, 2009, 8:37 a.m. EST
www.marketwatch.com...

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Treasury prices remained lower Tuesday, pushing yields up, after a government report showed the U.S. trade deficit widened to $27.6 billion, though not as large as some economists predicted. Ten-year note yields /quotes/comstock/31*!ust10y (UST10Y 3.17, -0.12, -3.50%) rose 2 basis points to 3.20%. Traders also noted Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke's positive comments late Monday on the bank stress tests and a positive tilt in U.S. equity futures as pressures on Treasury prices. Limiting declines, the Federal Reserve is expected to buy bonds maturing 2012 and 2013 during the session.

not as large as some economists predicted. Hmmm...getting quite inventive with language now eh?

[edit on 5/12/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Everything is crappy but hey can not beat Better than expected, right? the titanic is sinking but hey is not as worst as expected.

The interesting thing about all this wording is that I can only imagine the "experts" on mental manipulation that where call to find the right wording to deal with the economic crisis.

Perhaps they actually believe that is a great amount of people out there that will actually be motivated and manipulated by this wording.

But they forgot the savvy people here in ATS that can not be manipulated at all.

They must hate our guts

Originally posted by marg6043


Because our government is not putting much effort on how to make this nation productive again.

Speculations took over normal investments. The government spends too much, but you can avoid higher taxes by simply speculating, inventing fancy "financial instruments" and so on. How come that insurance companies like AIG got so big? The early Americans were building and producing stuff; they were not insuring their butts left and right.

US to borrow 46 cents for every dollar spent

news.yahoo.com...
movies.yahoo.com...

reply to post by marg6043
I'm sure they do!

U.S. stimulus to save 3.5 million jobs by end 2010: official
www.reuters.com...

Notice "Save" now? No creation mentioned...

California shortfall $21.3 billion if measures fail
www.reuters.com...

reply to post by stander


People call it capitalism and savvy investment ideals, but to me it was nothing short of corruption and greed.

I wonder why we have not heard about AIG lately, the last time I heard something they were asking for more money

They are like a blood sucking vampire they can not get enough.

reply to post by Hx3_1963


You are right, America needs about 7 million new jobs to be back to pre recession/depression but again deceiving the people with numbers but without committing to anything "new".

Where are the 1 million jobs?

Anybody remember that promise? You are right from "creation" to "saving" sounds like desperation to me.

So when the government starts to show data "better than expected" on jobs numbers because government hiring for temporary jobs everybody will be dancing in the streets

But we know better.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Hx3_1963


California shortfall $21.3 billion if measures fail
www.reuters.com...

California government just cannot borrow 46 cents on each $1 spent. So what does it take to balance the budget the Terminator way?
www.sacbee.com...

A new statewide Field Poll has found historically low approval ratings for the Republican governor and the Democratic- controlled Legislature, just 33 percent for the governor and 14 percent for the Legislature. So their credibility to marshal support for any plan is virtually nil.

Wholesale slaughter of state spending may be their only option. This is a pivotal point in California political history, a fiscal Armageddon.

Would Arnold call off troops from Afghanistan and Iraq to save state's expenditures if he couldn't borrow? He would put that troop withdrawal on a ballot and the California voters would hapilly aprove it. Too bad that America must suffer under Washington DC dictatorship.

Tobacco tax increase were on a California ballot not long time ago, but Californians defeated it. Obama, as a bonafide dictator, didn't have to ask the American people. He just raised the tobacco tax. Take America away from the hands of dictators and their cronies and all is fine.

Originally posted by marg6043

But we know better.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by marg6043]

We may know, but how many in the world without net access know?

It must be so easy for these peopel to fix anything, and surely your country is totally socialist now, and how can anyone say different.

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by stander

 

Why are you so focused on month to month when the reports are based on year to year???

Do you need to manipulate what you read to justify your stance?

Nowhere did KD say month ot month either, you added that interpretation to his article.

I'm not manipulating anything by focusing on month-to-month change. That's what the page 2 you recommended to me to peruse as evidence that the 50% figure does exist really says.

Sales taxes were $452
million lower (-50.9%) than last April,

It says "last April" not "April 2008." It's not based on "year-to-year" comparison as you first line claims.

reply to post by andy1033


Sad isn't it, but guess what, every power in any nation holds to power as long as the people in the nations allow that power to exist.

At the end no nation has gone for so long without the will of the people raising above.

US may be taken for crocks and fat rats, but they will exist as long as we the people let them exist.


We the people do not live in fear, the ones holding the power do.

Originally posted by marg6043


I wonder why we have not heard about AIG lately . . .

They are like a blood sucking vampire they can not get enough.

AIG went underground to do the much, much worse than expected stuff:


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/00f7f59441c5.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b87a91cd32da.jpg[/atsimg]


[edit on 5/12/2009 by stander]

Originally posted by stander
I'm not manipulating anything by focusing on month-to-month change. That's what the page 2 you recommended to me to peruse as evidence that the 50% figure does exist really says.

Sales taxes were $452
million lower (-50.9%) than last April,

It says "last April" not "April 2008." It's not based on "year-to-year" comparison as you first line claims.

Oh my stander, I forgot, there aren't enough pretty pictures in that pdf to keep you interested. You see, if you had scrolled back up to the beginning of that "bullet" entry on page 1 you would see:

Compared to April 2008, General Fund revenue in April
2009 was down $6.3 billion (-39%). The total for the three
largest taxes was below 2008 levels by $6.3 billion

(Continued on page 2)

(Continued from page 1)

(-40.3%). Sales taxes were $452
million lower (-50.9%) than last April,
and personal income taxes were
down $5.7 billion (-43.6%). Corporate
taxes were $142 million below (-8.6%)
April of 2008.

So you see it does CLEARLY display YoY figures.

reply to post by theWCH

Even the government’s grim projections may vastly understate the size of the banks’ credit card troubles.

I read an interesting Stanford paper that claims credit card default and mortgage defaults are tightly correlated which makes sense. In the 2007 time period people defaulting on credit card debt also defaulted on home equity loans 68 percent of the time.

Its sort of an interesting derivative that may be changing. As home values go down and there is less equity motivating people to keep paying their mortgages this percentage may go up.

In cases where people lose their job and find themselves in upside down mortgages bankruptcy becomes even more attractive.

The bank stress tests may have underestimated the situation.

AH today's "good" news just keeps coming in...

Social Security and Medicare finances worsen

WASHINGTON - The financial health of Social Security and Medicare, the government's two biggest benefit programs, have worsened because of the severe recession, and Medicare is now paying out more than it receives.

Trustees of the programs said Tuesday that Social Security will start paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes in 2016, one year sooner than projected last year, and the giant trust fund will be depleted by 2037, four years sooner.

Medicare is in even worse shape. The trustees said the program for hospital expenses will pay out more in benefits than it collects this year and will be insolvent by 2017, two years earlier than the date projected in last year's report.

GM sinks to fresh low as Chapter 11 looms

General Motors’ shares slid to their lowest level in more than 70 years on Tuesday amid increasingly loud signals that the Detroit carmaker is headed for bankruptcy protection within the next three weeks.

The shares were trading at $1.10 at noon in New York, down almost a quarter, which gives GM a market value of less than $700m. By contrast, Toyota, which overtook GM last year as the world’s biggest carmaker by sales, is valued at $120bn.

As the .gov "helps" GM with preparing for bankruptcy, a reverse split is being considered - Bondholders are NOT happy and are prepared to take it to court to fight it.

Editorial on this

WWJ AM 950 Detroit has been running replays of interviews on this subject, you can possibly listen over the internet using this link

KD, of course, wrote a ticker on this subject
Holding GM Debt? Gubbermint Is Robbing You!

on to other "good" news...

Fannie And Freddie Will Need Almost $100 Billion In 2010 (FNM, FRE)

The Office of Management and Budget released a report yesterday on the budgets and proposed overhauls of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that included the possibility of liquidating their assets. But don't get your hopes up.



The two government run mortgage finance companies have been scandalously costly for tax-payers, costing Americans far more in bailout money than they ever saved in cheaper mortgages. The OMB says that the two companies will need at least $92.2 billion more in fiscal 2010. This is on top of the $78.2 billion in aid they've received since they were taken over by the government in September.

The entire point of having Fannie and Freddie operate as government sponsored entities was that they could borrow at lower rates than purely private companies. This savings enabled them to make mortgage loans at lower rates, and allowed them to buy up or guarantee mortgages from private lenders at rates that would otherwise have been uneconomical. Over the years, Fannie and Freddie may have saved Americans as much as $100 billion in mortgage payments. Now the OMB says they'll need that much just to get through next year.

So exactly where are the green shoots all the pundits keep imagining?