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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 01:19 AM

ABC: Obama 'Unaware of Tea Parties'

I don't really believe that, but if he isn't, The Department Of Terrorists, also called Homeland Security is well aware of it, putting reports branding us as TERRORISTS for wanting liberty and the constitution.

And ACORN was dispatched to many meetings causing trouble... if he's not aware of those protests, his administration sure is.

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 01:50 AM

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Melissa101

I guess im not sure if you are implying that the intraday chart on the NASDAQ is reflecting that because of what you have said in the previous post..

But if you are talking future of the economy..? Markets "crash" and recover... take a look at the all time DJIA... plenty of action..

For the near term I am waiting for this consolidation to meet up with the 20 DAY EMA then we spike to the 200 EMA around 9000. Its all setting up.

EDIT : We will trend always if possible to ANTI-Nationalization of anything

Just like we are really not taking over AIG .. just selling pieces off and absorbing losses till then, hopefully we (tax payers) end up with a profit

Take a look - AIG just sold I believe a 2 BIL dollar portion of business I heard earlier this trading session..

Dont believe the hype when people say this market/econ will have everyone lined up in soup kitchens or live a totally different way of life. The global outlooks/trends are always changing like they did 100 years ago, 80 years ago, 60 years ago etc... we will get through whatever "this" is.

I mean hey, you just missed about 40% if you havent been dollar cost averaging - which you should prob. do, b/c we might (and prob will) test lows of 6500 range again

I invite you to pull up the last 80 years on the Dow ... roller coaster.. but guess what, you can basically draw a straight diagonal line up to where we are right now.. hang in there buddy

[edit on 16-4-2009 by GreenBicMan]

No I wasn't referring directly to the intraday chart, I was implying that the slight up swing in the market reflects the two examples I gave. I guess I should have been clearer. I am very sleepy so I hope this makes sense but I do not believe that the market will hold or return to what it was a year and a half ago or so. The reason I believe this is that history also shows that after every boom there is a depression (if you will) remember the roaring 20's. What goes up must come down, this is the law of not only physics but this law applies to everything. We experienced the greatest wealth in the last, what? 60 years than in any other time in HUMAN history. Common people today have more abundance than the wealthiest Kings in all of history ever had. No I do not think we are headed toward the soup lines, not yet anyway, there are programs in place now that did not exist in the 30's like unemployment insurance and food stamps but the government is running low on funds themselves how long do you think they will be able to fund these programs? Plus the majority of our "money" today is not backed by anything tangible it is the equivalent to Monopoly money. Just this week Fed EX (founded in 1947) laid off I think 1,000 people (first time in the history of the company) and grounded 14 planes (this is a huge clue as to how well businesses are doing..... not so much). The second biggest national mall owner filed for bankruptcy and there are countless small companies that are going down daily that never even hit the news. This is a good sign that things aren’t going that well on Main Street regardless of what Wall Street is looking like.
How long before Asia comes knocking to collect on their loans? Do we have the ability to pay them off? Um no, remember our money isn't backed by anything tangible, so what do we have that would be of value? Oh I don’t know maybe our land? In retrospect the market is but a baby, it has only been in existence for 100 + years. So to study the last 100 + years of the market and say that one can predict the future is quite fruitless. We are in unprecedented times, what we are facing runs much deeper than the shallow surface of the last 100 + years of financial history. This isn’t really a “what if” question it is a “when question”, it will happen and I have a theory that it will bottom out in June and steadily progress from there until we have a NOW or at the very least a socialistic society where everything is federalized. I do hope I am wrong… I kind of like my life style just like it is… Oh and I know you did not mean anything by the whole buddy thing, you were being nice (I think) but buddy refers to males and I am female...
... Jusy FYI...

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:09 AM
Treasury Defends Toxic Asset Plan After JPMorgan Opts Out

UPDATE 3-White House to meet with credit card execs-sources
S&P 500 -5.10 856.40 4/17 3:06am
Fair Value 861.62 4/16 10:00pm
Difference* -5.22

NASDAQ -8.50 1343.50 4/17 2:03am
Fair Value 1351.40 4/16 10:00pm
Difference* -7.90

Dow Jones -48.00 8015.00 4/17 3:04am

U.S. banks and investors scrap over housing aid plan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Investment funds are battling with large banks over the fine print of a U.S. housing rescue plan that will determine many of the final winners and losers in the recent housing bust.

At issue are bad bets on high-risk mortgages and the second-lien home equity loans that allowed many borrowers to buy a home they could not afford.

While investors gobbled up most mortgages and related securities created during the recent housing boom, big lenders like Bank of America (BAC.N), Citigroup (C.N) and JPMorgan Chase (JPM.N) are now servicing those loans and collecting the monthly payments for investors.
More at Link...

DEALKTALK-Westfield unlikely to swoop on General Growth's assets

[edit on 4/17/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:43 AM

Originally posted by pause4thought

I'll just ask one question: you ain't involved in no divination are you?

No, I'm not, but I would like to. Maybe I will go to school and become macro-economist like Bernanke. These macro thing jobs pay really well, and I'm sick and tired of making ends meet all the time. From paycheck to paycheck . . . what kind of life is that?

Hey, Pause, I would like to contribute to the party you were talking about: The Five Thousand Postulates of Piercing Exclamation.

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:56 AM
reply to post by stander

I hope you're not trying subliminals as a means of announcing your latest prediction for the DOW bottoming out.

I suppose that way you ensure not too many people realize what you're about at the time, but come the fulfillment you can just refer back to your veiled prediction.

The only explanation for this tack is that you are truly in cahoots with Titor himself.

So stop pretending you struggle from one paycheck to another.

And share some more of your insights with us...

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:09 AM
Round 3 ???

Will TALF 3.0 Be Enough For A CRE Lazarus Act

Several reports came out today on CNBC and other MSM conduits about a brand new government effort which may consider expanding the already many-times revised TALF program to capture all sorts of commercial real estate securities, including the uber toxic ones, and extend the duration on TALF loans from the established 3 years to 5 or more years. First off it bears pointing out that as much as CNBC would like to make this piece of "news" into something phenomenal for the CRE market, it is not news, and was in fact reported by Bloomberg over a week ago. Just how many times can the market regurgitate the same piece of news and how many times can the same early am headline appear that xyz market is higher in early trading on recovery hopes. Doesn't the same story get old after a while? Apparently not - after all we are dealing with a market that has the attention span of tweaked out NYMEX trader on speed.

Aside from the fact the a CMBS lengthening may or may not occur, the (f)utility of such an action would be obvious upon further examination. The obvious reason why the CRE lobby is pushing for a 5 year period instead of 3, is because, as Zero Hedge pointed out, the bulk of CMBS and whole loan defaults are projected to really skyrocket in 2012/2013, just out of the current 3 year maturity horizon. Of course, purchasers of these TALF conduits are unlikely to be blind, retarded and illiterate at the same time and should be able to do the math for themselves (and if they can't, they can listen to Atlanta Fed president Lockhart, and if even that is too difficult they are more than welcome to peruse Zero Hedge analyses discussing the default cliff in CMBS). Lastly, the TALF has been a disappointment from the very beginning, as ZH speculated, and even if the 3-to-5 year extension is granted it is guaranteed to generate exactly 0 additional interest from potential investors (and probably negative interest, as with 3 years, at least the TALF loan matures inside the CRE default tsunami).
More at Link...

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:19 AM
The trucks of money are almost empty,billions of pockets are full of lint, the cupboards are bare , the parks and streets are full what's left.

Now everyday we hear of the carnage and utter failures of many a business and bank. Yet from day to day we are told that all is well, we will take care of it, now go back to sleep.

From day to day we strive to overcome and from day to day we learn even more of the truth. We may not be able to dream right now... but the truth in the nightmare we are watching and living will soon show the markets going away.

5,000 is the nightmare and 0 is the truth.

The nightmare.....
Corporate results support stocks, outlook foggy Reuters

The truth.....
bail out babies are overvalued -over traded -back door bumping -MSM massaging greedy masses

People in the markets still can't make up their minds... so carry on nightmare!
end rant

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 06:14 AM

Citi Reports First Quarter Revenues of $24.8 Billion

Net Income of $1.6 Billion, Loss Per Share of $0.18

Citigroup Inc. (NYSE: C - News) today reported net income for the first quarter of 2009 of $1.6 billion and a loss per share of $0.18, based on 5,385 million shares outstanding. Revenues of $24.8 billion were driven by strong results in the Institutional Clients Group, partially offset by net write-downs. Results also include $7.3 billion in net credit losses and a $2.7 billion net loan loss reserve build.

The $0.18 loss per share reflected the reset in January 2009 of the conversion price of the $12.5 billion convertible preferred stock issued in a private offering in January 2008. This did not have an impact on net income but resulted in a reduction to income available to common shareholders of $1.3 billion or $0.24 per share. Without this reduction, earnings per share were positive. The loss per share also reflected preferred stock dividends, which did not impact net income but reduced income available to common shareholders by $1.3 billion.


GE Reports 1Q '09 EPS of $.26; Technology & Energy Infrastructure Earnings +11%; Capital Finance Earns $1.1B in 1Q '09; Total Backlog Stable at $171B

1Q ’09 Highlights (Continuing Operations attributable to GE)

* Earnings per share (EPS) of $.26, down 40%; earnings of $2.8 billion, down 35%
* Revenues of $38.4 billion, down 9%; Industrial sales down 1%; financial services revenues down 20%; Industrial organic revenue was flat year-over-year
* Energy Infrastructure earnings grew 19%; Technology Infrastructure earnings grew 6%


Citi's Asia-Pacific Real Estate Investment Unit Head Resigns

David Schaefer, managing director and head of Citi Property Investors for the Asia-Pacific region, left the firm earlier this month, a Citigroup spokesman confirmed Friday.

Schaefer, a veteran of the real estate market in Asia, was previously at Macquarie where he was head of property for Asia and Chairman of Macquarie Asia Property Advisors. Prior to that, he was a managing director at Aston International Capital and Indo Pacific Group in Singapore.

Ravi Hansoty is filling in as acting head of Citi Property Investors. CPI, the real estate investment business of Citi, closed a US$1.29 billion fund in February 2007.


for an alternate view (reminds self to close Fidelity acct)

Global bull mkt has begun, to last several years: Fidelity

A special series run by CNBC-TV18 called Global Markets: Turning Point? elaborates on if the forceful nature of the global rally as seen in the recent past points to a turnaround. Some of the economic data points have improved over the last couple of months which is why the question needs to be asked whether indeed we are at a turning point in global equity markets.

Anthony Bolton, President - Investment, Fidelity International, was the legendary fund manager of the Fidelity Special Situations Fund, which was a big outperformer since the early 1980s and today he advises overseas Fidelity’s investment group across the world and also mentors all of its young fund mangers.

Bolton feels a new bull market has started, which will last several years. "The exact trajectory is very difficult to predict though," he said. At some stage, he said, investors sitting on cash will panic and that money on the sidelines would get reinvested. "I think that phase is some time this year. But exactly when it is is very difficult to say."


And on the geopolitcal front, Russia & Georgia are at it again

Russia Deploys the Black Sea Fleet

Russia has sent an official notification to NATO’s general secretary, Hoop Scheffer, proposing that "all upcoming military exercises planned in Georgia should be postponed or canceled.”

On any other day of the year, I would read news article discussing a disagreement between NATO and Russia regarding Black Sea naval activity and dismiss it, but this isn't an average day. Earlier this week, as per the agreement between Russia and the Ukraine, Russian officials notified the Ukraine that 22 of its Black Sea Fleet vessels will leave Sevastopol for military maneuvers. Those ships were expected to depart earlier this week, but it was noteworthy when all of the amphibious ships deployed first rather than all of the ships at once.

The Black Sea Fleet has now deployed all 22 ships, which is getting some attention in the region because regional news reports have noted the Russian military exercises taking place in the Caucasus since the political turmoil and protests began last week in Georgia. There has been a lot of discussion over the past several days, mostly unverified hearsay and internet chatter, of movement of Russian troops towards the Russian-Georgian border and into Abkhazia as part of those exercises. Those rumors were confirmed today when an EU monitor told Reuters "it had registered Russian reinforcements at the boundaries between Georgian-controlled territory and South Ossetia and Abkhazia."


posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 07:04 AM

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
Dont believe the hype when people say this market/econ will have everyone lined up in soup kitchens or live a totally different way of life.

We already have ~10% of our citizens on food stamps (bridge cards, actually), which is the modern equivalent of soup kitchens and bread lines.

I invite you to pull up the last 80 years on the Dow ... roller coaster.. but guess what, you can basically draw a straight diagonal line up to where we are right now.. hang in there buddy

I invite you to look at the inflation-adjusted ("real") Dow. you'll see that average growth has been about 1.5% annually, with a ~30 year business-cycle, in which you have a 15-20 year period where your real wealth evaporates, and then a 15-20 year period where it grows. We were about due to go back down in the mid-late 90's, before that bubble-to-end-all-bubbles. The S&P 500 fairs slightly better, if memory serves. Inflation-adjustments make most "conventional wisdom" investments (including houses) look like total crap -- unless you want a vehicle to keep up with inflation. That's not to say that the very good can't earn real money.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by theWCH]

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 07:23 AM
reply to post by theWCH

NO only that but about 50% of the population this tax year will not be paying taxes or will get some kind of refund from the government regardless.

Due to the high unemployment figures, people living on unemployment benefits and lets no forget that section of the population that falls under poverty line.

Yes people right now 50% of the population has to support from the banking failures and the squandering of money from the government to the social services that already are draining the nation.

Those littler facts are not added to the nations balance sheets or the GDP figures when the government is doing their sugar coated numbers to show that the "economy is growing".


I got the feeling that our nations is beyond repair thanks to the agendas that had taken over our government by private interest, they are now scraping to keep whatever they have left, specially personal wealth and the hell with the rest of the population.

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 07:35 AM
How Robinhood"The fed and the government" is turning greedy and helping the wrong people.

Taxing grandma to pay Goldman Sachs

The reality of the impact that will be heading our way while the Robinhoods in the nations government save the greedy rich at the expenses of the working class.

The Federal Reserve has provided the banks with lots of cheap funds through its various emergency lending facilities and quantitative easing.

The Federal Reserve has permitted the banks and financial houses to park vast sums of unmarketable paper on its books—securities made nearly worthless by the misjudgment and avarice of bankers.

Guess what people this how things are now run the government, wait when it comes down the pipe to us.

After all Obama is following the Regan's "Trickle down economy" that didn't work during his era and now is bound to kill us all.

Redistribution of wealth, Complain about it and you Will be tagged anti government.

This all comes at a cost to someone—America’s elderly.

Many retirees depend on interest from certificates of deposit. Those rates are down dramatically, and as CDs expire retirees are compelled to reinvest their savings at lower rates and live on less. They can take comfort that their sacrifices are helping pay off Wall Streets losses from the lavish bonuses paid bankers. For example, the $70.3 million Goldman doled to CEO Lloyd Blankfein in 2007.

Don't think about retiring any time soon because all you going to get for your years of hard labor is a slap on the face so the Goldman Sach and the citibanks ect. can come and get no only your tax dollars but anything you have invested all your life for retirement.

What a joke.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by marg6043]

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 07:44 AM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

He is following "Bushes of not reading or watching the news" because the bad articles related to his government.

Just in case it has been by pass I came across this news that it seems to be bound to cause more stress on the markets.

Real Estate Giant's Collapse May Cause Domino Effect

Now the collapse of the Real state giant is expected to cause more problems for the already problematic markets as their collapse will affect many around the nation where they had business.

I wonder why they didn't took TARP money for help.

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 09:16 AM

Some really good charts here! I'd go bonkers re-sizing and trying to properly post them all but they refer to "Vault Cash","Treasury Deposits With the Fed",and those ever so sweet "St. Louis Fed Graphs..."

I think I am oficially "in love" with some of the minds that post on this thread just for the record,LOL!

Sony Ericsson cuts 2000 jobs:

And I'm still trying to figure out what's up with copper,the red-headed stepchild of metals.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by irishchic]

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 11:32 AM

Originally posted by irishchic
I think I am oficially "in love" with some of the minds that post on this thread just for the record,LOL!

Ditto! I don't think the web has ever had such a loveable bunch of minds show up in one spot.

Dow 8,123.52 -1.91 (-0.02%)
S&P 500 866.40 +1.10 (0.13%)
Nasdaq 1,661.32 -9.12 (-0.55%)
10y bond 2.92% +0.04 (1.39%)

IMF warns of parallels to Great Depression

Think they're lurking in this thread? They must have seen Hx's chart!

Libertarian Economist blogs about Tea Party

Parts that grabbed my eye:

Part of what helped the press see it as a libertarian event was my friend Lawrence Samuels, who set up a literature table and handed out hundreds of buttons, dozens of posters, and scores of his new book.


At one point, I was talking to Dee, a woman whose Republican women's group I had given a talk to a few years earlier. She told me that Obama was messing up on Iran and I told her why I didn't think Iran was a threat to the U.S. But I was getting nowhere and so I changed the subject. I looked across the street at a counter-demonstration. Among the demonstrators were two men holding signs saying, "End Corporate Welfare." "Look, Dee," I said, "those two guys are against the bailout." She started to say "no" and then said, "Oh, yeah, I see what you mean." A few people around us got a good laugh.

More at link, obviously. The first part, I found interesting since so many people are worried about the GOP trying to jack the Tea Parties. The second I just thought was worth a laugh.

Arnold Kling, Microeconomist, isn't impressed by Macroeconomics

I am not persuaded that macroeconomists had a good model for this crisis. I think that Peter Schiff comes across as much better than the average macroeconomist.

I'm supposed to do a bloggingheads next week witih Mark Thoma on macro, and I am going to be making the case that macro is really off base. I think that one of my issues with macro is that it tries to look like physics, with laws and constants.

But picture Isaac Newton scribbling down the laws of physics every day, and every night God comes in and erases the scribblings, changes the laws, and fiddles with the constants. That is what macro is like.

You know the world is upside-down when mainstream economists are giving shout-outs to Schiff.

IMHO, the macro-guys need to go back and re-read Joseph Schumpeter's work. Then they need to figure out that he was right.

Foreclosures hit record levels

Bernanke sees long-lasting damage to home values, household wealth, credit scores

I think it may be more accurate to say "breakdown of the credit rating system." If enough people get hit, then that's what we're looking at.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by theWCH]

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 12:38 PM
reply to post by irishchic

Nice words I can only imagine this thread will end up as one of the best threads in ATS down the line, I hope that I will still be here to see it.

Only the support of good people keeping the eyes on the markets can keep this thread alive.

Let not forget quality.

The unemployment issue,

Remember that this figures do not represent the real unemployment figures specially those pay under the table and those that do not fall on unemployment benefits, if we are to take all that in consideration the figures would put our government to shame while is keeps squandering tax payer money on the Big banks and specially after the outrageous bonuses.

Michigan is the top highest rank of unemployment in the US as today,

Oregon second and California third.

See if you state falls on the top ten.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by marg6043]

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 01:01 PM
Gold heading to $699? That's what one Elliott Waver thinks:

I mentioned previously that the early corrections were 4%, 8% and 16% at increasing orders of magnitude. If one were to be pedantic, one would say that the next level of correction should be 32%. Looking at the chart below, the correction from $1015 to $699 is 31%! It sticks out like a sore thumb. Surely this is exactly the 32% correction that we should have been anticipating for Major TWO?

Assuming that the $699 low on 23 October 2008 turns out to be the actual low point of the correction, and that remains to be proven, then we can conclude that we have seen the low point for Major TWO. That will allow us to update my original "back of the envelope" template to much higher levels, as follows:

Major ONE up from $256 to $1,015 (actually 4 times the $255 low);
Major TWO down from $1015 to $699, say $700 (a decline of 31%);
Major THREE up from $700 to $3,500 (a Fibonacci 5 times the $500 low);
Major FOUR down from $3,500 to $2,500 (a 29% decline);
Major FIVE up from $2,500 to $10,000 (also a 4 fold increase, same as ONE)

Much more at link.

Don't know enough about EWT to comment, so I'll leave that for others.

Marg: My state's #1, what do ya know! It seems like Oregon is catching up quick, though.

There's actually talk that the growing movie industry is going to save Michigan's economy. Ever since they started giving huge tax breaks to hollywood, they've been shooting films. Old auto factories are being converted to film studios. Not sure about this "savior" talk, but at least that's a shred of good news for us Michiganders.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by theWCH]

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 01:54 PM
The NYSE Chief says that traders, not investors, are fueling the rally:

Wall Street's stunning six-week rally has been fed more by traders looking to take advantage of quick swings in the market than investors with a long-term view, NYSE Euronext (NYSE:NYX - News) CEO Duncan Niederauer told CNBC.

Because of that, the rally likely is to run out of steam as low volume eventually comes back to the bite the market, he said.

"It feels to me we're in a trader's market and not an investor's market," Niederauer said in a live interview from the exchange floor.

More at link.

Dow 8,153.87 +28.44 (0.35%)
S&P 500 871.78 +6.48 (0.75%)
Nasdaq 1,675.48 +5.04 (0.30%)
10y bond 2.92% +0.05 (1.74%)

Gainers Change Mkt Cap
TXT-B Textron Inc. 43.68% 4.09B
CHRT Chartered Semicond. Mfg. ... 28.09% 1.07B
SIRI Sirius XM Radio Inc. 26.80% 2.00B
ETFC E TRADE Financial Corpora... 22.37% 1.60B
CBS.A CBS Corporation 21.93% 4.62B

Losers Change Mkt Cap
SLM SLM Corporation -12.56% 2.41B
LPS Lender Processing Service... -12.27% 2.77B
MGM MGM MIRAGE -12.20% 1.43B
AIB Allied Irish Banks, plc. ... -8.68% 1.11B
SNDA Shanda Interactive Entert... -8.63% 3.57B

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:05 PM
sorry - if this was already posted.

More bad news for bankers.

Around the world, banks, insurers and asset managers have cut 373,760 job since August 2007, according to Reuters. Unfortunately, those pink slips are still coming. The latest rumors and reports of layoffs come from Wells Fargo & Co. (NYSE:WFC), Citigroup (NYSE:C), UBS (NYSE:UBS) and more.

* Citigroup is reportedly cutting staff at its Global Wealth Management unit, according to Dealbreaker.
* Wells Fargo is chopping 15% to 20% of its staff in the law department. Layoffs will start as early as next week and will continue through June 1, according to Abovethelaw.
* UBS (NYSE:UBS) is expected to lay off 1,000 to 2,000 employees in the United States over the next several days as part of its restructuring, which includes worldwide layoffs of 8,700, according to Investment News.
* Nomura has axed about 50 investment banking jobs in Asia, including India, as a part of its cost cutting measures, according to Reuters.
* HSBC (NYSE:HSBC) may move the jobs of 1,000 Salinas, Calif. employees who work in the fraud-mitigation department to Chicago or Buffalo, N.Y. as part of the companies consolidation, which will begin in June, according to The Californian.
* Ernst & Young (NYSE:ERNY) is asking employees in China to take a 40 day low-pay leave between anytime between July 2009 and June 2010 to save operating costs, according to Reuters. It's rough out there, but there are jobs. For instance, the Federal Deposit Insurance Co. is hiring. For the latest job postings, check out's Career Center. Here is our pick for the day:
Hedge Fund Special Projects / MD-level position in New York

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 02:30 PM
DO NOT MISS THESE CHARTS!!! Good stuff here and amazingly clear descriptions!!!:

"Op-Ex Boogie-Woogy-Oogy

We got tired of the "Tango" and "Fox Trot" and "Cha-Cha-Cha", so this is what we're left with on Options Expiration. We can expect "da Boyz" to play out whatever games their programs require. In fairness, too, not all of it is manipulation; some of these guys just need to roll over positions into the next expiration month and are trying to do it with a minimum of slippage. Regardless, it makes for odd trading and it's best for us to keep our heads down." further news,GM continues to whine and wind down:

GM Readies Plans For Bankrupcy It Hopes To Avoid... HUH???

[edit on 17-4-2009 by irishchic]

posted on Apr, 17 2009 @ 03:07 PM

Originally posted by pause4thought
So stop pretending you struggle from one paycheck to another.

I do struggle, coz of my compulsive generosity.

Hey, keep this for yourself -- youknowwhatimean.

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