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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 11:34 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Feel better soon!!!Colds suck.

It's COLD here again in South Texas and I'm nervous about all the new lil' plants in my garden but will try to baby them.
Apparently sven they aren't a safe "investment" currently,LOL!

Will be a short week and no doubt a rather hectic one?
Cramer is running around like a one-armed well-digger...he's lost all credibility with me.

Just another Manic Monday...

Why this will not be a normal cyclical recovery
By Roger Altman

Published: April 5 2009 19:23 | Last updated: April 5 2009 19:23

The rare nature of this recession precludes a cyclically normal US recovery. Instead, we are consigned to a slow, painful climb-out, as are nations such as Japan and Mexico that depend on US demand. The implications for US policy include a likely second round of stimulus, much more federal capital for the banking system and stunning budget deficits that will slow key initiatives for President Barack Obama, such as healthcare and energy reform.

What is unusual is that this is a balance-sheet driven recession, centred on the damaged financial condition of both households and banks. These weaknesses mandate sub-normal levels of consumer spending and overall lending for about three years.

In contrast, most postwar recessions had a different sequence – rising inflationary pressures, a monetary tightening to counter them and, then, a slowdown in response to higher interest rates. This was the pattern of the sharp 1980-81 slowdown.

None of that happened here. Instead, we saw a housing and credit market collapse that caused enormous losses among households and banks. The result was a steep drop in discretionary consumer spending and a halt to lending. To see why recovery will be slow, we can look at the balance sheet damage. For households, net worth peaked in mid-2007 at $64,400bn (€47,750, £43,449bn) but fell to $51,500bn at the end of 2008, a swift 20 per cent fall. With average family income at $50,000, and falling in real terms since 2000, a 20 per cent drop in net worth is big – especially when household debt reached 130 per cent of income in 2008.

This debt derived from Americans spending more than their income, reflecting the positive wealth effect. Households felt wealthier, despite pressure on incomes, because home and financial asset values were rising. Now that wealth effect has reversed with a vengeance. The crisis and unemployment have frightened households into raising savings rates for the first time in years. They had been stagnant at 1-2 per cent of income but have surged to nearly 5 per cent. With reduced incomes, only cutting discretionary spending can produce higher savings. This explains why personal consumption expenditures fell at record rates at the end of 2008.

Consumer spending, however, has approximated 70 per cent of US gross domestic product for the past decade and dominates our economy. But household balance sheets will not be rebuilt soon. Home values will keep falling through mid-2010 and there is no precedent for equity markets, still down 45 per cent from their peak, to make those losses up in just two years. It is illogical, therefore, to expect a full snap-back in the consumer sector in 2010 or 2011. This alone mandates a drawn-out, weak recovery.

The second key sector is the financial one. According to the International Monetary Fund, western financial institutions, mostly in the US, have realised $1,000bn of losses on US-originated assets since the crisis began. The IMF has estimated that unrealised losses may amount to another $1,000bn. With residential and commercial real estate steadily declining, this is possible. This is why the banking sector cannot make new loans. These losses are eating into banks’ capital and shrinking their capacity to add assets. Funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program are only replacing lost capital, not increasing it. When might they end? With key categories of toxic assets still losing value, the answer is: not soon. The scale of lending needed to support a normal cyclical recovery will not materialise.

A third constraint on recovery may involve the federal balance sheet. The fiscal and monetary engines are currently on full throttle. But, within two years, concerns over budget deficits and inflation may revive, compelling the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates and Congress to adopt deficit reduction steps. These actions, contractionary by definition, could occur before a full recovery has asserted itself. On that basis, the federal balance sheet would also limit a full recovery.

This weak outlook is likely to force a second injection of spending rises and tax cuts in 2010 to prod demand. Despite public opposition, substantially more federal capital will be required for banks. The deficit outlook will worsen, perhaps to $1,000bn annually over 10 years. That will force a slowing of Mr Obama’s investment plans. That is a shame, because those investments are needed, but this balance sheet recession will be too deep.

The writer is chairman and CEO of Evercore Partners and former deputy Treasury secretary in the Clinton Administration

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 11:38 AM

Originally posted by elston
reply to post by theWCH

did you see this one?

I have to ask,did anyone watch this interview? This person seems more than credible and laid the whole thing out. Just need to know if this was on point or way off before I share it with others.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 11:39 AM

Originally posted by elston
Great thread and video here video is a must watch for sure. Interview

Sorry I meant this one. Dam edit.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 12:11 PM
reply to post by elston

Everything said is pretty much the speculation many on this thread and elsewhere have said. AIG was used like a Shell Corporation, to funnel funds to other institutions that Congress would never have authorized. Such as foriegn banks. It is a money laundering system. Paulson was in fact the CEO of Goldman Sachs, and he did push for them to get the biggest share from AIG, an obvious conflict of interest considering the amount of Shares he holds with the company, and being the former CEO.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 12:29 PM
reply to post by Rockpuck

Thanks. Is this really speculation or did these guys break the law? Is there a means by which charges can be brought?

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 01:30 PM
reply to post by elston

No, as far as I can see the only thing that was broken was Constitutional Law. Nothing in the Constitution allows the Government to take stake in private corporations to determine how they would be run. And clearly the entire bail out is a blatant constitutional emergency.. the allowing of executive powers to a non-elected official (treasurer) to be exempt from judicial review and all normal accounts of checks and balances is imo illegal. As for the accounting aspect, everything was done within the bounds of the law. There is nothing specifically illegal about using corporations to funnel funds.

It is however illegal for the Federal Reserve to hold equity in a company, or in fact, to hold any form of assets other than the debt they provide. For them to be using shell corporations, I would assume is a violation of their charter.

But then again, who is going to investigate and bring charges even if it where illegal? The time has long since past when we could end the corruption through normal and legal means.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 01:33 PM
reply to post by Rockpuck

Thanks for the clarification. I swear I wake up every day and caught up and wonder how this can actually be happening.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 01:48 PM
reply to post by irishchic

Thanks, we here in the south are to expect one more freeze before the full bloom spring this week, I prep my garden already but I am staying away from planting the summer plants until the last freeze is over.

Well I read the letter and he is right on every thing but the letter seems to ignore the biggest factor to a complete economic recovery in a very manufactured and complicated US.

Because the US economy is now nothing more than a consumer driven one, no recovery will be seen as long as we keep funneling money to banks so the don't fail, while consumers keep losing their income and is not means of production and neither new sources of jobs available to take over the loss of industrial manufacturing ones.

China has learned from the US downfall and greed

They are now protecting their industry, avoiding foreign take over and forcing their production to be spend more in the nation while suppressing as much as they want imports.

And guess what the WTO while screwing the US for even thinking about protectionism, they dare not to do anything to what China is doing.

China Strengthening Its Economy While America Sits on Its Hands

Although I don really believe in the US sitting on their hands, actually they have their hands very busy throwing money to the banking institutions while begging with their open hands to foreign money

On the same day that the Chinese government blocked Coca Cola from purchasing China’s largest juice maker, Huiyuan Juice, the government was also meeting with business leaders behind closed doors scheming for new more innovative ways to block foreign acquisitions of Chinese companies, the Economic Observer reports.

Last September Coca Cola offered to buy the Huiyuan Juice Company for approximately $2.4 billion. The acquisition would have been the largest foreign takeover of a Chinese company in history. However, on March 10, the Ministry of Commerce rejected the takeover bid, citing anti-trust laws.

The Ministry of Commerce said that it feared Coca Cola would "set up some exclusive terms to restrict competition in the juice market." Those accusations were completely unfounded, though, as the acquisition would have given Coke just a 20 percent market share of the juice business in China.

And . . .

The same day that the government was blocking the Coke bid, the Bureau of Industry and Injury Investigation held a closed-door meeting with private sector leaders to discuss new ways in which it can protect domestic industries from foreign takeover.

The Economic Observer is reporting that the government is hoping to have new regulations within three years. The government is already researching a proposed Industry Security Law.

The new regulations would be broader and more comprehensive than the Anti-Monopoly Law used to block the Coke deal. The new law would take into account things such as other links in the industrial chain, social welfare and the effect the acquisitions would have on other key sectors of China’s economy.

Can we blame them? look what happen to America due to free trade and Capitalism gone corrupted

While the Chinese government is busy protecting its key industries from hostile takeovers, American policymakers are sitting on their hands and railing against “protectionism.” From July 1978 to July 2008, America sold 16,613 of its best companies to foreign investors, allowing the profits and technological secrets in such industries to benefit foreign owners. Moreover many of the key jobs (in research and development, for instance) go to foreign workers, while the profits that accrue to foreign holding companies boost the tax revenues of foreign governments.

I got the feeling that no amount of money thrown to the banking system is going to fix America ever.

America is fighting the economic crisis the wrong way, due to a government that is full of nothing but recycle trash from the same institutions we are paying to stay afloat.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 02:04 PM
Bernanke ‘Green Shoots’ May Signal False Spring Amid Job Losses

The Labor Department’s April 3 report that the economy shed an additional 663,000 jobs last month, while the unemployment rate rose to 8.5 percent, will be followed by months more of bad-news headlines, economists say. The recession, now in its 17th month, has already cost 5.1 million Americans their jobs, the worst drop in the postwar era; unemployment may hit 9.4 percent this year, according to the median estimate in a Bloomberg News survey, and may top out above 10 percent in 2010.

The risk is that the jobs picture turns even more bleak than forecast or the drumbeat of bad news still to come causes consumers, whose spending has firmed up in recent months, to hunker down again.

“If something happens to spook consumers and they crawl back into their tortoise shells, that would be terrible news,” says Alan Blinder, former Fed vice chairman and now an economics professor at Princeton University.

BANK OF AMERICA 7.43 -2.24 206761391
SPDR TRUST SER 1 82.63 -1.93 170501565
FINL BULL 3X 6.49 -9.86 169860499
FORD MOTOR CO 3.8501 18.46 165337357
CITIGROUP INC 2.72 -4.56 149340603

Dow 7,840.00 -143.00 -1.79
S&P 500 823.50 -17.10 -2.03
NASDAQ 100 1,297.00 -19.25 -1.46
S&P/TSX 60 543.50 -8.20 -1.49
Mexico Bolsa 20,881.00 -169.00 -0.80
Brazil Bovespa 43,870.00 -646.00 -1.45

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 02:07 PM
So the Chinese, who buy all available mines and other resources in the world, won't let somebody else buy Chinese companies?

Not greed, just prudence

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 02:11 PM
reply to post by DangerDeath

Well they are learning from the pros and their failure and I remember that the US used to be on top of the world once.

Still is interesting that while we get screw by the WTO for everything we do to protect our nation China and new emerging industrial power houses are using protectionism to avoid the great US mistakes.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 02:18 PM

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by DangerDeath

Well they are learning from the pros and their failure and I remember that the US used to be on top of the world once.

Still is interesting that while we get screw by the WTO for everything we do to protect our nation China and new emerging industrial power houses are using protectionism to avoid the great US mistakes.

Because they have now their NWO toy to play with.
When IMF starts to print its own fiat money, they will have all their debt covered
Nothing to worry about.
Britain is first on the list to receive "help" from IMF...

It is wrong to believe that they are taxing people to cover their financial hole. The real reason is to force people to struggle to survive, so they can rule without obstacles.

Recession is an anagram for Repression.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 04:38 PM
Officially off topic:

This must be the slowest this thread has been since its inception. Are you guys/gals actually getting some R&R or are you taking a sanity break?

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 06:09 PM
reply to post by elston

The pace correlates with events to some degree. The suckers' rally seems to have stalled today, so things are slightly in limbo. It could be argued that the rollercoaster is now crawling at the top of a peak - just before entering the most terrifying plunge known to man.

Personally I'd say we're facing a series of prolonged relatively unremarkable hilly bits (for want of a better term,) before reaching the mind-bending white-knuckle free-fall into the track designers' equivalent of the Grand Canyon.

It remains to be seen what may provide the momentum to take us to that precise point. But there's a fair chance you'll hear about it first here...

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 06:58 PM
Last week, I sent KD's GM/AIG ticker to my Congressmen, as well as to the local media. I finally got a response today:

Dear [theWCH]:

Thank you for contacting me with regard to the domestic automotive industry. I appreciate hearing from you.

As you know the current economic crisis has led to the meltdown of and subsequent government assistance to the financial industry. The crisis has also caused upheaval in almost every sector of the economy, including the U.S. automotive industry as automakers, suppliers, dealers, and consumers have all seen their access to credit become significantly limited. The Big Three, GM, Ford, and Chrysler, have testified twice before House and Senate Committees regarding the assistance they need from the government in order to avoid bankruptcy. GM and Chrysler have stated they need immediate assistance in the form of a bridge loan while Ford asked for a multi-billion dollar line of credit but stated it would likely not need access to it unless economic conditions worsened. All three companies submitted to Congress restructuring plans that would allow the companies to pay back the loans.

As you may know, President Obama's Auto Task Force announced that it would withhold additional federal assistance to the automotive industry unless the companies make additional changes. According to the announcement, Chrysler has 30 days to finalize a merger with the Italian carmaker Fiat. GM was given 60 days to streamline operations and reduce costs.

The President has expressed his confidence in and his commitment to a successful restructuring of and long-term viability plan for General Motors and Chrysler. The road ahead is going to be very difficult and painful, although as the President said, there is potential for both companies to emerge from restructuring as stronger, more competitive companies. I share the President's confidence in GM and Chrysler and will go even further and state that I steadfastly believe that both companies are on the verge of emerging from this dark period as industry leaders once again in sales, fuel economy, safety and customer satisfaction. The message from the President is clear - there is a lot of work to be done yet; I stand ready to roll up my sleeves and get to work.

Over the next 60 days, everyone at GM - from union workers and retirees, corporate executives, and bondholders - will face many challenges and high-hurdles. However, the progress that GM, especially in its contract talks with the UAW, whose members have already made tremendous sacrifices, shows the company is capable of reaching the demanding goals set forth for them by the Obama Administration. Additionally, I am optimistic that Chrysler and Fiat can and will reach an agreement that will put the company on-track for viability with a new product line that gives Chrysler the aggressive boost it needs.

There is a lot or work to be done, but I believe important steps have already been made. You may res assured I will keep your comments in mind as this matter moves forward.

Again, thank you for being in touch. For news on current federal legislative issues, please visit my website at; you can also sign up there to receive my e-newsletter. In the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact me again if I may be of assistance with this or any other matter of concern.

With every good wish,

Sincerely yours,
John D. Dingell
Member of Congress

I will give five stars to anybody who can tell me what any of that has to do with the issue that I raised.

I was hoping for something along the lines of "My staff is looking into the situation..." but at least he took the time to send the generic "Automaker Concerns" form letter. This shows that he (or somebody in his office) at least read the Ticker enough to determine that this was in regards to the domestic auto industry (I didn't mention them in the initial e-mail -- I basically just said "you might want to look at this, homie").

[edit on 6-4-2009 by theWCH]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 07:09 PM
reply to post by elston

I for one needed a break from it all after last week, so I spent time with the kids, the dog and the garden. Told Hx3 that I would be doing that in private chat, sorry I didn't fill everyone else in

Sometimes I have to get away and "smell the flowers" to appreciate things "correctly" again.

I think most people are similar.

But when I come back after a fairly calm day on the market, I see stuff like

Geithner Wrong, Crap Assets Correctly Priced, Say Harvard And Princeton Profs

Geithner's Stress Test "A Complete Sham," Former Federal Bank Regulator Says

US eases terms of $1trn toxic asset plan amid take-up fears about take-up

US Recovery Is Far Off, Banks Are 'Basically Insolvent': Soros

Fed announces credit lines with 4 central banks

And I realize, that while life is good and things are OK in my own little sphere of life, the same cannot be said for the forces that have effect upon my little sphere.

I'll be back in the early am to to start with all the gloom and frustration at the incompetents who "think" they are going to fix our economy, without even realizing that some of their prior actions are the direct cause for where we are now. And posting their never ending spiel about how it will work, yes we can fix this, etc. and try my best not to barf on my keyboard

I still feel humbled and amazed whenever I look at eh vein patterns in something as "simple" as a leaf - and that helps me keep perspective

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 08:04 PM
reply to post by redhatty

Don't feel bad my husband just got a memo that the state of Ga will start taxing government retirement income that until now was off limits.

The states are scraping anything they can, while Obama no federal taxes, states are having a ball.

We the tax payer will be squeeze so much until only blood is going to come out of our pockets.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 08:31 PM
And another tactic that will do nothing

SEC mulls 2 short sale circuit breakers

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. securities regulators are crafting two types of 'circuit breakers' to restrict short selling, a type of investing often blamed by executives for declines in the stocks of their companies, a source familiar with the proposals told Reuters on Monday.
The Securities and Exchange Commission will consider at its Wednesday meeting the restoration of the "uptick rule," which allowed short sales -- a bet that a stock's price will fall -- only when the last sale price was higher than the previous price.

The SEC is working on an updated version of the uptick rule to include all stocks and a bid test, which would only allow shorting at a price above the highest available bid, said the source, who requested anonymity because the proposals are still being crafted.

The source said the SEC is working on a circuit breaker proposal that could temporarily prohibit short sales of a stock if the stock has already fallen by a certain percentage. The source also said the SEC is crafting another circuit breaker that would trigger the application of the uptick rule or bid test after the price of a stock had fallen by a certain percentage.

Oh and a New theme in this country - NEVER TELL THE TRUTH

Iris Mack, Harvard Derivatives Whiz, Fired For Emailing Larry Summers About "Frightening" Trades?

Late update: Harvard spokesman John Longbrake called to emphasize that the university had conducted thorough investigations of all allegations about Harvard Management Company and point out the 13.8% annualized returns HMC delivered in the ten years that ended June 2008. In a separate development, we learned that Mack was scheduled to be the subject of a February 23 Newsweek story by Michael Hirsh that had been subsequently shelved. Hirsh declined to comment.

A former quantitative analyst at Harvard Management Company, the university's once-vaunted endowment manager, tells the Harvard Crimson she was fired for voicing concern to then-university president Larry Summers' chief of staff about the money manager's risky use of derivatives the traders didn't understand.

The episode dates back to 2002, when analyst Iris Mack, whose website identifies her as the second African American woman to earn a Harvard PhD. in applied math (and someone who likes primary colors) joined the much-venerated Harvard Management Company, which invests the university's then $18 billion endowment, to find what she termed a "frightening" state of affairs.

"The group I was working for had no background whatsoever to be working on [derivatives]," Mack says, adding that, to her knowledge, several of her colleagues were not licensed securities traders. "Sometimes the ways they handled even basic Black-Scholes models [widely used to price stock options] were puzzling."

So Mack took inventory of the abuses -- high employee turnover, lax risk management practices and a "low level of productivity in the workplace" were among others, and detailed them in an email to Marne Levine, Summers' chief of staff and a Treasury staffer on the Obama Transition Team. (Summers was the only person to whom Meyers reported, and according to a recent Forbes story he personally ordered the university's biggest derivatives trade, a purchase of interest rate swaps that cost the university billions this year.)

A month after sending her email, Mack was fired after a meeting in which the endowment fund's then-chief furnished her the emails and castigated her for making "baseless accusations." She later sued for wrongful termination and settled out-of-court with the university. But she claims the practices "shocked" her, and -- the punchline is -- she had joined the company from Enron.

Much more at link

[edit on 4/6/09 by redhatty]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 08:45 PM
S&P 500 -1.00 829.40 4/6 9:30pm
Fair Value 838.83 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* -9.43

NASDAQ +2.25 1314.25 4/6 8:28pm
Fair Value 1315.61 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* -1.36

Dow Jones +3.00 7919.00 4/6 8:24pm
Nikkei 225 8,828.11 9:25PM ET Down 29.82 (0.34%)
Straits Times 1,817.39 9:45PM ET Down 30.59 (1.66%)
Gold $875.70

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 09:42 PM


Apache Junction School District -49
APC Update -30
Eastman Chemical -200
Alston Bird Law Firm -86
Mason Schools -22
UST Inc. -60
Ingram Micro Canada -50
Dallas Morning News -500
Contra Costa County -120
Ecco Shoe Co. -1,150
Fujicolor Closing Plant -145
Galbreath Closing Plant -28
Shire Pharma Closing Plant -260
Breyers Ice Cream Plant Closing -201
City of St. Louis -73

TOTAL 2,974 est.

Under 3,000 reported on a Monday.

Thousands of F-22 Jobs At Risk

Pentagon to end F-22 jets, presidential chopper

By The Associated Press
Defense Secretary Robert Gates WASHINGTON -

Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the Pentagon will end the F-22 fighter jet, which is assembled in Marietta, and presidential helicopter programs run by Lockheed Martin Corp. As a result, roughly 2,000 workers at the Lockheed Martin plant in Marietta could lose their jobs. Military analysts widely expected the radar-evading supersonic jet considered an outdated weapon system designed for the Cold War would not go beyond the 187 already planned. The planes cost $140 million each. But Bethesda, Md.-based Lockheed, the nation's largest defense contractor, has said almost 95,000 jobs could be at stake if the Pentagon didn't buy more of the planes. The new fleet of presidential helicopters with a price tag of $11.2 billion that was nearly double the original budget also were considered at risk to be cut in the 2010 budget. (Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[edit on 6-4-2009 by spinkyboo]

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