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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 11:01 PM
one more comment to my thought experiement on why M2M is getting so much play and what the benefits to the economy may be-if any

I think they are trying to increase investor confidence in the markets as well as the effect that may have on consumer confidence and consumption

Now they may (search) ask what people's perceived reason's for lack of upbeat market attitude is going forward........and perhaps they concluded thru various surveys (or just floating perspective's via the MSM and watching responses) that a majority of investors blame M2M for a great deal of the current exasperated well as a struggle to get out of it

now it may not matter in reality wether said investors are attaching way too much importance to M2M ...considering loan loss provisions have been a large source of capital impairment...CDS swaps prices falling...securitization market collapsed ...etc...

so presto .......they (PTB) think they can restore confidence in the markets by getting rid of M2M which appears to be a big *perceived reason* in investors mind's why they lack confidence in the market going i'm sure think tanks and the gov't understand *human psychology and that many investors WANT to believe there assets can people naturally attach higher value (than in reality) to things like M2M being a reason for the crisis or the severity of it ....because this gives them a better hope they could recoup their losses* i mean it's more optomistic then thinking that the economy of the last few years was the last hurrah of a unsustianbable monetary system which came to be dependent on unsustainable lending fraud and asset bubble that continue to deflate....not to mention that more and more dollars of debt are needed to even budge GDP upward...(this is referred to by prof emeritus as the marginal productivity of debt in his latest article featured on MKT oracle)..........anyway my theory is a bit of a mind F%$K but i think that may be what it boils down to..

also of course banks look better for stress test's and they can justify getting more bonus money should their losses (less writedown) look good but i'm not sold that this will have as big an effect on balance sheets yet..seems alot of the better effect on balance sheets is also due to the gov't backdoor subsidy thru AIG payouts

[edit on 5-4-2009 by cpdaman]

posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 11:09 PM
reply to post by cpdaman
Pretty much about it...

Perceptions = Reality

Sad part is, it couldn't be further from the truth...

Of course I'm no genius, so, for all I know, it might work...

But...I still think something else is going to blow up...

Either the citizens or their exotic derivatives...

posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 11:24 PM
Let's see what tomorrow brings. I've got so many chores tomorrow I might not be watching ATS

posted on Apr, 5 2009 @ 11:52 PM
S&P 500 +3.70 844.30 4/6 4:31am
Fair Value 838.83 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* +5.47

NASDAQ +3.75 1320.00 4/6 3:58am
Fair Value 1315.61 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* +4.39

Dow Jones +55.00 8038.00 4/6 4:15am
FTSE 100 4,079.21 3:00AM ET Up 49.54 (1.23%)
CAC 40 2,996.16 3:19AM ET Up 37.42 (1.26%)
DAX 4,432.90 3:04AM ET Up 47.91 (1.09%)
Hang Seng 15,039.69 2:29AM ET Up 494.00 (3.40%)
Nikkei 225 8,857.93 2:00AM ET Up 108.09 (1.24%)
JPY 101.39
Gold $876.65
What Really Happened to Consumer Spending

Swiss-listed AIG PE's holdings fall in value

Communities print own currencies to keep cash flowing

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 04:03 AM
reply to post by cpdaman

Few have seen through all the obfuscation as clearly as you, my friend. And it sounds like Prof Emeritus could make some great contributions in here as well.

Two points:

1) I hope you get at least one applause for those last two posts.

2) How about the following article to back up what you are saying:

Banning M2M: The Worst Mistake in History

Yesterday the house Financial Services Subcommittee run by Paul E. Kanjorski (D-PA) discussed mark-to-market accounting.

Why do you care? Some misguided wicks out there (i.e. Warren Buffett and Steve Forbes) have asked for the M2M (yes, we have a silly text friendly symbol for mark-to-market now, twitters rejoice!) to be banned. On one hand I say yes, but only if it applies to me as well. It would allow me to ask my clients to stop using their current portfolio balances and simply use the balances from 2007. This would make me look spectacular, my referrals would shoot though the roof, and nobody would call concerned about the future of their retirement. The problem with this is that it is a fraud. People seeking to ban the M2M rule are asking the investing public to support the next great Ponzi scheme. The only difference in this scenario is that trades are placed and the money is invested in bank debt.

Now that I have everyone worked up, let’s take a step back to remind ourselves why this is important. While most banks don’t have large amounts of debt subject to M2M rules, the big guys (BAC, WFC, JPM, C) have a serious issue with it. Why? They borrowed money to make dangerous investments that have not worked out. There is nothing illegal with incompetence or making bad bets. However, now they are upset because the M2M exposes their incompetence. At least they all were doing it, right?

Banks need new money all the time, and they get that by convincing investors that if they buy their debt now, they will be paid back in the future. Investors want to see the true value of the assets, including the bad debt. Remember that junk still has some value, but you can’t let management lie to you about it. That is what they are asking the government to do right now: legally hide the current value of their mistakes. I would consider lending to banks as an investor, but you have to come clean and show me the books. If not, I will take a pass. If this happens on a wide scale by banning the M2M rule, we could freeze the credit markets all over again.

Now, for those conspiracy theorists out there, listen up. Could banning the M2M rule, thus causing a new credit freeze, make it easier for banks to beg the Fed to give them more free money? I don’t think it is that evil. My take is that the big banks just want to cover up their tracks while they collect a handsome spread on the free money the Fed is lending them right now “in their time of need.” They should be careful about what they ask for. Their cure could kill them.


(emphasis mine)

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 06:39 AM
It's's down...

S&P 500 -1.10 839.50 4/6 7:25am
Fair Value 838.83 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* +0.67

NASDAQ +7.75 1324.00 4/6 5:39am
Fair Value 1315.61 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* +8.39

Dow Jones -1.00 7982.00 4/6 7:25am
FTSE 100 4,047.42 7:25AM ET Up 17.75 (0.44%)
CAC 40 2,970.52 7:40AM ET Up 11.78 (0.40%)
DAX 4,414.36 7:25AM ET Up 29.37 (0.67%)
Gold $879.25
DXY 84.00
JPY 100.99

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 06:44 AM
reply to post by cpdaman

Check out Kevin Phillips. A good read.
it seems his first guess was correct.
Let's hope his second is to pessimistic.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 06:47 AM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

Man you should read some of the horrible replies to that community money thread. People are so uneducated.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 06:52 AM
reply to post by Tentickles
I saw that...what has public education came to...

And so it begins...

Citi Appoints Eric Aboaf Treasurer

NEW YORK, Apr 06, 2009 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Citi today announced that Eric Aboaf has been appointed Treasurer of Citigroup, reporting to Chief Financial Officer Ned Kelly.
Mr. Aboaf will manage Citi's balance sheet and will be responsible for ensuring strong liquidity, asset and liability management and optimization of our capital structure.
He will work closely with all of Citi's businesses within both Citicorp and Citi Holdings to support their funding needs and optimize capital deployment. Mr. Aboaf will also work closely with external regulators and rating agencies. He will communicate with and expand our base of fixed income investors.
"Eric brings invaluable experience as CFO of both our major businesses to the role of Treasurer as we seek to more fully integrate Treasury with our businesses as well as Risk," Mr. Kelly said.

Citi Appoints Mike Corbat CEO of Citi Holdings

NEW YORK, Apr 06, 2009 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Citi today announced that Mike Corbat has been named CEO of Citi Holdings, a significant part of Citi that includes brokerage and asset management, local consumer finance and a special asset pool. Mr. Corbat has served as interim CEO since Citi's announced realignment into Citicorp and Citi Holdings on January 16, 2009.
In this role, Mr. Corbat will continue to work closely with newly appointed Citi Holdings Chairman Gary Crittenden to thoughtfully evaluate and set the strategic course for these businesses, while tightly managing risks and losses and maximizing the value of these assets.
Mr. Crittenden said, "Mike Corbat is a terrific business manager and a great partner. In a short time, Mike and the team have done excellent work, and I couldn't be more pleased to have him move into the CEO role on a permanent basis."
"With more than 25 years at Citi in a variety of leadership roles, Mike brings a tremendous amount of experience, insight and energy to this post," said Citi CEO Vikram Pandit. "Mike will work closely with us to accelerate our assessment of strategic opportunities for these businesses, as we also seek to optimize their performance through this challenging market environment."
More at Links...

S&P 500 -3.50 837.10 4/6 8:01am
Fair Value 838.83 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* -1.73

NASDAQ -6.25 1310.00 4/6 7:53am
Fair Value 1315.61 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* -5.61

Dow Jones -37.00 7946.00 4/6 7:57am
FTSE 100 4,030.71 7:51AM ET Up 1.04 (0.03%)
CAC 40 2,974.44 8:06AM ET Up 15.70 (0.53%)
DAX 4,416.28 7:51AM ET Up 31.29 (0.71%)

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 07:34 AM

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
It's's down...

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Hmm. That's strange, coz I couldn't find Pfizer U.S. Pharmaceuticals, the makers of Viagra, on Spinkyboo's doomsday list.

~ pasta! ~

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 07:38 AM
reply to post by stander
Good one...

I hear it makes things look blue...

And down she goes...picking up speed...

S&P 500 -8.60 832.00 4/6 8:52am
Fair Value 838.83 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* -6.83

NASDAQ -16.25 1300.00 4/6 8:33am
Fair Value 1315.61 4/4 5:21pm
Difference* -15.61

Dow Jones -74.00 7909.00 4/6 8:48am
FTSE 100 4,005.16 8:23AM ET Down 24.51 (0.61%)
CAC 40 2,940.33 8:39AM ET Down 18.41 (0.62%)
DAX 4,366.15 8:24AM ET Down 18.84 (0.43%)

Gold $875.05

Oil dropping pretty fast also...

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 08:23 AM

Mayo Says Loan Losses Will Exceed Depression Levels (Update1)

April 6 (Bloomberg) -- Mike Mayo, who left Deutsche Bank AG to join Calyon Securities, assigned an “underweight” rating to banks on expectations that loan losses will exceed levels from the Great Depression.

“While certain mortgage problems are farther along, other areas are likely to accelerate, reflecting a rolling recession by asset class,” Mayo wrote in a report today. “New government actions might not help as much as expected, especially given that loans have been marked down to only 98 cents on the dollar, on average.”

The 46-year-old Mayo gained a reputation for independence at Deutsche Bank for his willingness to put a “sell” rating on banks and to criticize investors and companies for trying to curb objective analysis. At Deutsche, Mayo had “sell” or “hold” ratings on all 18 companies he covered, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Mayo said in the report that he expects loan losses to increase to 3.5 percent by the end of 2010. Mortgage-related losses are about halfway to their peak, while credit card and consumer losses are only one-third of way to their expected highest levels, Mayo wrote.

The changes to mark-to-market accounting rules will impact banks’ balance sheets by one-third or less and will have no impact on the economics of bank troubles, Mayo wrote. Banks committed the “seven deadly sins” of banking in trying to compensate for lower natural growth rates and will now feel the costs of those actions, Mayo wrote.

Mayo gave “sell” ratings to BB&T Corp., Fifth Third Bancorp, KeyCorp, SunTrust Banks Inc. and U.S. Bancorp, while “underperform” ratings were assigned to Bank of America Corp., Citigroup Inc., Comerica Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co., PNC Financial Services Group Inc. and Wells Fargo & Co.

OK kiddies...25 minutes to auction...

Anyone want to guess on how high yields will rise???

...come on...take a guess...

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 09:42 AM
The North Korean scenario failed -- no major hoopla developed over the weekend to withdraw plenty of cash from the 8K account. But some selling had to be done -- living in the world is getting more and more expensive. We don't need the Union of American Maids to find out. I'm going to hire a Chinese maid soon.

So how are we doing right now?

Major indexes fell more than 1 percent at the open, with the Nasdaq leading the way, following remarks from a prominent analyst who said financials face tough sledding ahead.

A word from a "prominent analyst" caused some selling.
Hex, why don't you stick with your "old" Bentley for a bit longer? Just stop passing words around, will ya? Do it for the country, so the next generation would have some idea whilst looking back how wonderful things were in 2009 judging from the market performance.

The move lower comes after stocks posted their best four-week gains in more than 75 years.

The best one-month gain in 75 years!

Aah, those folks who lived back in 2009 surely fed their faces with silver spoons.

But according to the "Spinkyboo's papyrus" found on a CD in the year of 2056, things were not that rosy. Who knows . . .

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 10:00 AM
reply to post by stander
Amazing what a good alias, media outlet and talking head can accomplish huh?

I watch The Brain & Pinky VERY closely...

How'd you like the IMF Gold selling rumor?

Some of my best work...

Gold $866.22

I'll call my "People" when the time is right...

FTSE 100 3,985.14 10:56AM ET Down 44.53 (1.11%)
CAC 40 2,911.65 11:11AM ET Down 47.09 (1.59%)
DAX 4,327.80 10:57AM ET Down 57.19 (1.30%)

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 10:16 AM
It's going down down down!
I love how Cramer now has a commercial on CNBC trying to explain himself.

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 10:20 AM
Now we shall watch the move...

Fed buys $2.5 billion in long-term Treasurys

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The Federal Reserve Bank of New York bought $2.5 billion in Treasurys on Monday, part of a program to improve conditions in private credit markets and spur lending. The debt bought included notes maturing between 2019 and 2026. Dealers submitted $11.6 billion in debt to be purchased. The Fed will continue its buybacks this week, heading towards purchasing $300 billion in Treasury securities over the next six months. Ten-year note yields declined 2 basis points to 2.88%.

Oil $50.51

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 10:27 AM
Hey whats going on everybody? Been away for a few days working on my plan. Anyway, I think this shows how scroomed we really are.

Fed Lines Up Foreign Currencies For USl Banks

The Federal Reserve on Monday lined up hundreds of billions of dollars worth of euros, yen, pounds and swiss francs to lend to US banks as needed to meet their foreign currency needs.

The US central bank entered into currency swap agreements with the European Central Bank, the Bank of Japan, Bank of England and Swiss National Bank to secure access to up to E80bn, Y10,000bn, GBP30bn and SFR40bn.

The Fed has already authorised these four central banks to borrow unlimited amounts of dollars from it to meet the dollar funding needs of their local banks.

The Fed is not immediately drawing on the new foreign exchange swap lines.

An interesting word, unlimited, was used. I don't know exactly what this is going to accomplish other than make the FOREX markets go crazy for a little while - while traders try to keep up with the Central Bank moves.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 10:39 AM
Hmmm...and Treasury Yields rise?

CBOE 10-Year Treasury Yield Index

Gold falls below $870 on possible IMF gold sales, rising dollar

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Gold futures fell Monday for a third straight session to below $870 an ounce, wiping out their yearly gains as traders shaved positions on worries that the 403 tons of gold sales by the International Monetary Fund will increase supply and depress gold prices.
"There is still this fear of a lot of selling coming from different central banks and the IMF," said George Gero, a precious metals trader for RBC Capital Markets. "The perception is that 'I am getting out of the way until all the sales are completed and let's see how it's absorbed.'"

Gold for April delivery fell $27.40, or 3.1%, to $868.20 an ounce in North American electronic trading. Gold has lost more than 6% since April 1 and is now down nearly 2% for the year. The more active June contract also fell Monday, down 3.2% at $868.50.

Leaders from the Group of 20 nations said last Thursday they endorse 403 tons of gold sales by the IMF. The proceeds will be used to provide finance for the poorest countries over the next two to three years.
The announcement came one day after the European Central Bank said it had completed the sale of 35.5 tons of gold.

The IMF's plan to sell the gold still needs to be approved by an 85% majority vote from its 185 members. The U.S., which has 17% voting power in the fund, essentially holds veto power.

If the plan is approved, the gold selling will be implemented in coordination with major central banks to minimize the impact on the market, the IMF said.
The possible IMF gold sales helped gold prices move lower in the short turn, said Hussein Allidina, an analyst at Morgan Stanley. But he added he sees "any weakness in price as a buying opportunity as the sale would occur over years and be under the CBGA limit."
More at Link...

[edit on 4/6/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 10:49 AM
Hi, everybody, I have miss some of the news and the thread, being sick for the last five days and spend all day Thursday running test while fighting a bad cold

But I could not rest today because the bad news about the financial again are causing the Markets to be negative today.

Now the markets experts are finally acknowledging that the financial are truly bankrupted and no government intervention will help them.

Still the morons in government keep throwing money to the bottomless pit that the financial has become.

Also the Markets experts are realizing that without the support of the American spender and consumer it will not be a turn around on the economy.

I still wonder why this people are so slow
that border on mental retardation.

But still if the banks can not give away loans because cash shortage consumers will not spend what they don't have.

Well If I don't see you again today is because I am nursing my cold.

[edit on 6-4-2009 by marg6043]

posted on Apr, 6 2009 @ 11:12 AM
Blame Canada....oh, what?

Loonie Loses 3% as Carney Pushes Quantitative Ease

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