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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 06:30 AM

Originally posted by redhatty
great article that is trying to connect the dots

Are the Big Banks Gaming the Taxpayer?

Multiple sources for this story - this is not a tin oil hat sort of story. Anyone who thinks this is "innocent" should ask why Bank of America (BAC) and Citigroup (C) were not buying these securities 3 months ago? or 6 months ago? Welcome to corporate socialism 101 and the unintended consequences - aggressively buy securities that the taxpayer is going to subsidize hedge funds and private investors to buy in a few weeks/months - you never lose in reverse Robin Hood America. Watch for the new HGTV show: Flip that MBS (Mortgage Backed Security)!

Much, much more at link

Corporate Socialism 101 or Facism?

Mussolini defined fascism as the merging of corporate and state power.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power"

Here's a link to an old 2004 thread discussing facism.

While people are worrying about nationalization, socialism and communism, fascism is walking in the back door.

Edit to add Wiki Link and quote

A key element of fascism is its endorsement of a prime national leader, who is often known simply as the "Leader" or a similar title, such as: Duce in Italian, Führer in German, Caudillo in Spanish, Conducător in Romanian or Shogun in Japanese. The fascist movement demands obedience to the leader, and may exhort people worship the leader as an infallible saviour of the people.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by Maya00a]

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 06:57 AM

Originally posted by pause4thought

PM on all networks: the Top Man says 'April Fools!' - and it's business as usual.

Are you asleep or under some as yet unspecified influence?..

Do you think that if Obama resigns, Potus would become the prez? Where does this scenario leave Biden?

I figure things this way: the Dow closes above 8k on April 1. That means that Obama will serve for 8 years. But since April 1 is Fool Day, Obama won't serve 8 years but only 4, coz April is the 4th month.

We must scheme more . . .

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 07:25 AM
reply to post by stander

...if Obama resigns, Potus would become the prez?

Potus is the prez.

Always was, always will be.

Must be something to do with the shadow govt. I suppose.

I figure things this way: the Dow closes above 8k on April 1. That means that Obama will serve for 8 years. But since April 1 is Fool Day, Obama won't serve 8 years but only 4, coz April is the 4th month.

There have been 44 presidents to date. As this is the time when China is taking supremacy we must divide by 8, leaving 5½. So O gets an extra 18 months. This suggests martial law in the wake of a cataclysmic event at the end of his term.

Where does this scenario leave Biden?

It depends what date his mother was born.

[edit on 28/3/09 by pause4thought]

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 07:57 AM
reply to post by pause4thought

The biggest problem with that is, if Obama resigns, Biden becomes President.

I think that would be more likely to give us Dow=4000! Christmas for the short-sellers!

As long as the topic is on the POTUS (even if it is in a joking manner
), here's some food for thought:

"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy."

- Carrol Quigley, Tragedy and Hope

Which brings us to...Obama thinks legalizing marijuana would not help the economy. Economists disagree.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by theWCH]

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 09:37 AM

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by stander

...if Obama resigns, Potus would become the prez?

Potus is the prez.

Oh, really? I thought it was Obama.

There have been 44 presidents to date.

Well, that's what I meant. If the prez, be it Obama or Potus, is the 44th, then he is scheduled to serve a 4-year and anoter 4-year term all the way to 2012. Since 2012 is the Mayan year when everything ends in the predicted hoopla, it will include the 44th presidency thus making the earth-colliding planet Nibiru an official disaster. That's why me must scheme on April 1, the Fool Day, to confuse the Mayan prophecy. We need to scheme so our children had bright future ahead of them, not a catastrophy. Right, Pause?

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 10:23 AM
reply to post by stander

I know it's Saturday, but I think it's time to give the funny cigarettes a rest.

Question is: how will the markets react to the G20?

The only cure for the systemic breakdown is (or, rather, would have been - the bailouts surely mean it's too late now) to let failed institutions fall and accept the consequences. Short to medium-term pain for medium to long-term gain.

I expect the G20 will either

a) dither because what the PTB are planning - a new system that leaves Bretton-Woods in the history books - is too much for every participant to swallow at this point, meaning what comes out of the meeting is mostly posturing, along with some token actions

or b) enough back-room diplomacy has been carried out to produce a statement of intent in line with what we know about the G20 already:

(tune in at, say, 2:18 - )

Bachmann to Geithner: " international monetary standard as soon as the G20... Would you categorically renounce the United States moving away from the dollar and going to a global currency as suggested this morning by China and also by Russia?"

Geithner: "I would, yes."

...And the Federal Reserve Chair? -

"I would also."


(*For anyone not up to speed on the G20* - )

What else have we got to go on? We've got the

G20 2008 Plans

-revealing the coming global system has been years in the planning, (PDF + detailed breakdown, most notably from Maxmars)


Here it comes - British PM to propose Global New Deal to Rescue World Economy

-which includes another authoritative PDF & discussion of the G20 Plans for this coming week.

For more background there's:

Going Global? Washington DC controlled by G20!


G7 takes back seat to G20


We can see where it's heading sooner or later. The markets may well react positively if firm proposals emerge.

But then again this begs the question: are we happy to sacrifice self-determination, national sovereignty, jobs at home, etc. for ever-increasing financial, economic, corporate and political globalization - all on the altar of avoiding the short-term hardship that would really address the systemic rot?

But then again many believe the PTB need the meltdown/collapse to push their agenda through...

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 11:01 AM
reply to post by pause4thought

No one will dare to create conditions for the largest world economy to shrink due to the implementation of radical monetary policy. If anything, the other countries would devise a filter that protects them from toxins flowing from Wall St in the future.

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 11:06 AM
UK may be ready for baillout from IMF (Soros)

This recession, he explains, is a “once-in-a-lifetime event”, particularly in Britain. “This is a crisis unlike any other. It’s a total collapse of the financial system with tremendous implications for everyday life. On previous occasions when you had a crisis that was threatening the system the authorities intervened and did whatever was necessary to protect the system. This time they failed.”

Much more at link

Does Soros still have a lot of credibility?

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 01:59 PM
Not a fan of the NY times -
But here's a tent city slide show that begins to put things into perspective -
the have and have not scenario...

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 02:41 PM

Goldman Sachs Pays Executives $49.6 Million on Investments as Stock Falls

Goldman Sachs Group Inc.’s top 10 executives received $49.6 million from their investments in hedge funds and private equity funds during 2008, more than most of them earned in compensation after agreeing to forgo bonuses.
more at Link...

Bank of America May Boost Investment Banker Pay 70% After Merrill Takeover

Bank of America Corp. plans to increase some investment bankers’ salaries by as much as 70 percent following the takeover earlier this year of Merrill Lynch & Co., people familiar with the proposal said.

Sweet...a win-win situation fer them...

[edit on 3/28/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 02:55 PM

Originally posted by pause4thought

Wow! He really disliked being cornered like that. I think he was lying and we all know it by his facial expression.

I would say a global "currency" is definitely in the works.

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 02:58 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. I love it.

They get to double dip into TARP and now they are uping their pay scales. I remember Red saying how there isn't a vehicle for hyperinflation, if the bankers keep paying there people like this they found their perfect vehicle.

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 02:58 PM
Obama Will Set Bankruptcy Deadline for GM and Chrysler on Monday

According to the reliable folks over at GMInsideNews, on Monday the Obama Administration will announce a bankruptcy deadline for both General Motors and Chrysler.

It has been rumored that the government will release more details about its aid for the U.S. auto industry on Monday, but now it appears the announcement will include this strong-arm measure by the feds. The “brankruptcy deadline” will be a specific date by which both companies will have to have their finances in order. For General Motors this means a date by which it will have its ongoing issues with the United Auto Workers and bondholders resolved. If the companies cannot comply with the request of the Auto Task Force it will force both U.S. auto giants into a “pre-packaged” Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing.

Hmmm, yet ANOTHER deadline for the UAW and Auto makers to deal with before we give them more money.

Where IS all this $$ coming from again?

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 03:07 PM
reply to post by redhatty

Maybe the top dogs over at GM will tell the UAW and the Administration where to shove it and file for chap. 11 before they get a chance to do anything else.

Then pack up shop and move to a right to work state. The Unions are like blood sucking leeches. It is time for these people to grow a spine.

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 03:09 PM
Alot of this economic speak is way beyond me

But I spotted this news about Germany and wanted to post it FYI...

Germany taking 8.7 pct stake in HRE: bank

BERLIN (AFP) — Germany's government will take an 8.7 stake in the troubled bank Hypo Real Estate (HRE) which it is seeking to nationalise, the bank said in a statement issued Saturday.

Germany's national banking sector stabilisation fund SoFFin would acquire the stake as a first step and "intends to gain full control over Hypo Real Estate Group," said a statement from the bank, confirming a press report.

SoFFin would spend 60 million euros (80 million dollars) buying 20 million of the bank's shares at three euros each, "to the exclusion of shareholders' pre-emptive rights," the statement added.

The way the governments are swallowing up failing businesses, you would think a bad case of indigestion is soon to follow...

carry on

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 03:20 PM
reply to post by JacKatMtn

Hey, we're all learners. This is one big topic!

Thanks for the post. Every additional piece in the jigsaw helps.

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 03:29 PM
reply to post by pause4thought

I will try to toss in some good old country common sensical barbs now and then when the urge hits.

Sometimes if you toss out the business speak which to me is intended to blur the lines of reality . it becomes quite clear.

Stock tip : Find the the company who owns TUMS...

and BUY BUY BUY!!!

tongue in cheek tip not intended to influence market activity

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 03:45 PM
Another nation's government looking for more stimulus.....

Japanese govt looking for new stimulus for troubled property markets

Japan's ruling parties are considering new measures to support the country's troubled property market, including a fund to buy assets from real estate investment trusts.

No specific schemes have been drawn up but active discussions are under way, according to Isamu Ueda, a member of the ruling coalition's project team.

'We've determined to take some measures to normalize the REIT market. We're considering setting up a fund as one method to make it possible to use the supplementary budget,' he said.

The government is considering a 1 trillion yen ($10 billion) fund to purchase properties from the trusts and provide loans.

I remember when billion was a big number, I also remember when assets were positive and liabilities were negative.

High school economics texbooks must have changed a bunch since I went...

asset now can be both toxic and legacy....

I guarantee a loan for a house worth 300G, and the payments are coming in = asset.

The same house is now empty and worth 200G and no payments are coming in with a principal still owed over 200G, my math says this is now a liability.

What chapter says you can still call it an asset, be it toxic or legacy?

I want to learn...


[edit on 3/28/2009 by JacKatMtn]

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 04:12 PM
reply to post by JacKatMtn
When you said common sense you got it right...

Being as our whole fiat system is now based on debt, I guess less negative means positive???

How messed up is that???

posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 04:17 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

Yep, creative license to blur the lines of reality.

I drive everday in my Legacy asset.

Now where to find that on the tax forms

ON the other hand let's play their game instead of my financed vehicle being considered depreciation....

I will call it Deep Appreciation, sounds better and positive in the same breath.

I do feel better now, I better go out and fix that fender I keep kicking when I see what it's worth and how much I owe.

[edit on 3/28/2009 by JacKatMtn]

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