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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by twilightzone

Building houses is NOT prosperity...

Well, I would argue here and say: yes it is!
New investments drive the entire sector of economy. New houses => job for construction workers, demand for materials, machines and other services.
Like in automotive industry – one job for a factory worker creates 7 jobs in cooperating companies.
I suppose the same rule applies for the construction business…
And off-topic.
Dear Guys and Gals… where is your SPIRIT? The legendary spirit of Americans, always optimistic, always looking on the bright side of life? :-)
Please, don’t let the situation get you down, I am sure… I hope everything will be better soon!

[edit on 23-3-2009 by twilightzone]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 03:45 PM
reply to post by twilightzone

Please, don’t let the situation get you down, I am sure… I hope everything will be better soon!

...Said the armed robber to the bound & gagged staff...

[edit to add:]

If the nation's wealth is being mismanaged / misappropriated in front of our very eyes, while the masses go on sleepwalking, realism may well look like pessimism. But it isn't. It's just that wishful thinking per se makes no difference.

[edit on 23/3/09 by pause4thought]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 03:52 PM
From "Calculated Risk Blog" which I feel is a decent wrap-up of today's activity:

"Monday, March 23, 2009
Stock Market: Up, up and Away!
by CalculatedRisk on 3/23/2009 04:00:00 PM
An amazing day ...

DOW up 6.8% (about 500 points)

S&P 500 up 7.1% (54 points)

NASDAQ up 6.8% (almost 100 points)

Click on graph for larger image in new window.

The first graph is from Doug Short of (financial planner): "Four Bad Bears". NOTE: Doug might be out today!

This is the 2nd worst S&P 500 / DOW bear market in the U.S. in 100 years.

Note that the Great Depression crash is based on the DOW; the three others are for the S&P 500.

The second graph shows the S&P 500 since 1990.

The dashed line is the closing price today.

If you bought in May 1997 - congratulations - you are now even (not counting inflation and dividends).

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 04:02 PM
Hope ya got vittles in yer pantry...

UPDATE 1-U.S. supermarket chain BI-Lo files for bankruptcy

NEW YORK, March 23 (Reuters) - Supermarket chain BI-Lo LLC [LONESB.UL] filed for bankruptcy on Monday, just days before two loans mature that are secured by the company's 215 food stores.

The Greenville, South Carolina chain, which is owned by private equity group Lone Star Funds [LS.UL], said it and nine affiliates asked for court approval of a $100 million bankruptcy loan from General Electric Capital to allow it to continue paying staff and vendors while it restructures.

In a court filing, the company said it had assets and liabilities of between $500 million and $1 billion.

The company said that two loans for $360 million mature on March 26. Some of the lenders would not extend the maturity of one of the loans and the company said it would not be able to repay or refinance, forcing it to seek court protection.

Standard & Poor's cut the company's credit rating last year, citing tough competition in southeastern states where it operates.

BI-Lo employs about 15,500.

The case is In re BI-Lo LLC, US Bankruptcy Court, District of South Carolina, No. 09-02140.
Hhhmmm...South Carolina...seems to be a magnet for failures of all types...

More callin' in of chips...

[edit on 3/23/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 04:10 PM

Ok, we know it's not but you know what? We need days like this just to remind ourselves that we WILL emerge from this...though happy days are not yet here again :-)

I'm fascinated to see what tomorrow brings. I'm looking for that $5.25 left in my 401k to at least double the time I retire (most likely when I'm 90)>

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 04:16 PM
A Bank of America analyst has said to sell banks after the rally:

And also said that the end solution for the crisis is bank takeovers.


posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 04:25 PM
I mentioned misappropriation above. I now see it's legal to pour zillions into the arms of institutions that have at best mismanaged what was entrusted to them, and endless millions into insane, unjust bonuses - but illegal to give the homeless food.

Pause is now officially fuming.

I hereby augment 'misappropriation' to embezzlement.

(my teeth are literally gritted)


Pause has now regained his equilibrium. The OP has added the following:

Sorry, hadn't realized it was from 2007, missed that date.

I found some sites about the ACLU lawsuit, but nothing stating what happened with it.

It still makes me angry to think what crooks in suits are getting away with while average Joes in jeans are thrown by the wayside in terms of priorities.

[edit on 23/3/09 by pause4thought]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 04:36 PM
Everyone who has been following this crisis closely has no doubt noticed that the IMF keeps issuing warnings similar to what they said today about the situation being "dire" and the real possibility that "war" may be on the horizon. Meanwhile the spin coming out of Washington is that hey things are looking up.

Obviously, they are in panic prevention mode on Obama's team, putting out the positive P.R. to soothe the public and private sector investors. Why anyone in their right mind would invest in toxicity is beyond me. This bizarre phrase they came up with... "toxic assets"... seems to me to be a contradiction in terms. If it is toxic, how is it an asset? Maybe I'm missing something.

Here is what I see happening...

* Panic prevention via spin and P.R. out of the Obama team

* Approx 10% of the public, unemployed, will default on their obligations sometime this year which will create another huge wave of banking crisis

* Bubbles ready to burst this year... commercial real estate and defaults on commercial development in progress... consumer loans of all types (homes, cars, boats, re-fi, home equity, you-name-it)... credit cards (HUGE)... and the resulting waves of very widespread business and personal bankruptcies going down this year and in the foreseeable future

* Prediction: social unrest probably mid to late summer in massive demonstrations like we haven't seen since Vietnam War protests

* A collapse of the entire auto industry is well underway

* A collapse of the dollar either sooner or later, but inevitable

I could go on, but these are just right off the current headlines anyone can see from day to day.

I still say the current stock market rally is a "sugar high" and there will be a very bitter crash within weeks from now. As I said before the end of last year, 2009 will be a continuous stream of bad news and various ineffective fix-it initiatives followed by Great Depression II in 2010. I still believe that although we may enter GDII earlier that 2010, it is definitely going to change the lifestyles of almost every American before it's over. As far as a prediction of when it will be over, I would have to go along with Ron Paul... 10-15 years. There will have to be major reforms before it will be anywhere near over.

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 04:36 PM
Pardon if a Re-post...

WTO's Lamy presses U.S. as world trade tumbles

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - World Trade Organization Director General Pascal Lamy pressed U.S. trade officials on Monday for a strong commitment to finishing the Doha round, while a U.S. business leader warned against accepting a "phony deal" just to wrap up the talks.

Lamy's trip to Washington came as the WTO forecast world trade would fall 9 percent in 2009 due to the shrinking global economy, the biggest fall since the Great Depression and much worse than the 2.8 percent drop the International Monetary Fund forecast in January.

The sharp drop in world trade has increased calls in Europe, Asia and Latin America for a quick conclusion to the Doha round on the basis of texts proposed in December.

But the Obama administration has said it cannot agree to proposals for cutting U.S. farm subsidies and politically sensitive manufacturing tariffs until advanced developing countries, including Brazil, India and China, make better offers to open their markets to U.S. goods and services.

A U.S. trade official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk and Lamy "had a very productive meeting to get acquainted and establish a relationship for working together."

The official shared no further details of Monday's meeting, which was Kirk's first opportunity to talk in person with Lamy since winning Senate approval of his nomination last week.

The Doha round was launched in November 2001 with the goal of helping poor countries prosper. Since then, it has suffered one setback after another even as negotiators have narrowed many differences.


Lamy has argued a quick conclusion to the nearly seven-year-old Doha round would boost economic growth and provide an "insurance policy" against future protectionism by ratcheting down the maximum tariff and subsidy levels now permissible under WTO rules.

But "that's not going to come from a phony Doha deal" along the lines of what WTO negotiating chairmen proposed in December, Robert Vastine, president of the Coalition of Service Industries, said in a panel discussion at the American Enterprise Institute think tank.

The United States should use the current economic crisis to galvanize countries to make "one more big try" to finish the round on terms that generate substantial new trade flows and ensure a standstill against new protectionism, Vastine said.

But it should also explore alternatives to the Doha talks, such as a series of sectoral agreements with interested countries to liberalize service trade, Vastine said.

President Barack Obama and other leaders from the Group of 20 developed and developing countries will meet in London on April 2 to discuss jump-starting world economic growth.

G20 leaders, at their last meeting in November, pledged not to impose any new measures to restrict trade or investment for the next 12 months. At least 17 of the 20 have violated that promise, according to a recent World Bank report.

Lamy supports strengthening the standstill commitment by requiring G20 members to file a report each quarter on any new barriers or subsidies they impose. He's also hoping for concrete action at the G20 summit on helping to unfreeze credit lines to finance imports and exports.
Dang...all these big global thingys are howling now...

Nobel laureate Krugman slams Geithner bailout plan

GM workers must decide soon on latest buyout offer

[edit on 3/23/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 04:59 PM
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
I respectively submit to you that I do feel entitled to the social security I receive and the medicare i will begin receiving in July.

I worked 49 years, nose to the grindstone, and paid my taxes which included SS and medicare payments to the government. It belongs to me.
I'm sure I will never get anywhere near what I paid in as I was successful
in my money making. I paid a boat load of taxes in my life time.

It is money the government told me I needed to pay and they promised I would get it back. By God it's mine and I demand it.

It is by no means charity or unearned income. I worked for it.

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 05:09 PM

We must first identify the immediate cause which has detonated the present unprecedented turbulence. That cause is unquestionably the $1.5 quadrillion derivatives bubble. Derivatives have provoked the downfall of Bear Stearns, Countrywide, Northern Rock, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Merrill Lynch, and Wachovia, and most other institutions which have succumbed. Derivatives have made J.P. Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Citibank, Wells Fargo, Bank of New York Mellon, Deutsche Bank, Société Générale, Barclays, RBS, and money center banks of the world into Zombie Banks.

Derivatives are financial instruments based on other financial instruments ­ paper based on paper. Derivatives are one giant step away from the world of production and consumption, plant and equipment, wages and employment in the production of tangible physical wealth or hard commodities. In the present hysteria of the globalized financial oligarchy, the very term of "derivative" has become taboo: commentators prefer to speak of toxic assets, complex securities, exotic instruments, and counterparty arrangements. At the time of the Bear Stearns bankruptcy, Bernanke warned against "chaotic unwinding." All of these code words are signals that derivatives are being talked about. Derivatives include such exchange traded speculative instruments as options and futures; beyond these are the over-the-counter derivatives, structured notes, and designer derivatives. Derivatives include the credit default swaps so prominent in the fall of AIG, collateralized debt obligations, structured investment vehicles, asset-backed securities, mortgage backed securities, auction rate securities, and a myriad of other toxic variations. These derivatives, in turn, are pyramided one on top of the other, thus creating a house of cards reaching into interplanetary space.

Until the root cause is arrested we will see bailout excitement as the only tradable commodity. The only way to break these contracts is an Economic Emergency Declaration from the president. That would mean an admission that something is wrong and probably won't happen until it's too late. Much easier just to print money.

JP Morgan holds some $90 Trillion of derivitaves by itself!

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 05:16 PM
The mathematics of big numbers doesn't allow adjectives like "hungry"-billions.
So the economy rests on the principle of "cheaper to breed than to feed".
When the population reaches millions-billions, the perspective is lost, only the growing number of the "few" counts when it comes to distribution of wealth - huge wealth divided with small number is still huge wealth.

In regards to the feeding the poor incident - counting of hungry is forbidden by law!

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 05:25 PM
reply to post by dizziedame

Well, I'm not saying that it should just go away and everybody that paid into it shouldn't get what they put into it back.

I'm stating that it should be phased out. I agree you worked for it, it is yours and you are entitled to it.

Also I'm sure that you saved for the future and were generally smart with your money and planned for retirement beyond surviving off the knowledge that you will be getting a check when you hit that age.

Others though are not I wouldn't say smart, but are pretty oblivious to everything and count on that SS check when they retire and don't plan for the future.

Unfortunately for somebody like me, it isn't looking like I'm going to get any of what I have paid into it.

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 05:56 PM
FAZ went down 50% today. Ouch. When those 3x financial ETF's move up or down they move BIG.

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:05 PM
This is another false rally. Our dollar is going to lose alot of value here soon. Especially if the Fed is allowed to pull money from one pocket and put it in another.

I don't care what the market is telling me, I care only what the numbers are telling me. This rally is happening only because the government is going to shovel more cash their way.

I just heard some idiot on Cap Hill saying that government can't go broke because, and I'm not making this up, "We can always print more money".

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:11 PM

Originally posted by projectvxn
This is another false rally. Our dollar is going to lose alot of value here soon. Especially if the Fed is allowed to pull money from one pocket and put it in another.

I don't care what the market is telling me, I care only what the numbers are telling me. This rally is happening only because the government is going to shovel more cash their way.

I just heard some idiot on Cap Hill saying that government can't go broke because, and I'm not making this up, "We can always print more money".

Pretty sad. What is even sadder is Wall Street rallied on this news because inflation will be coming back to town, but the regular person will be facing no job and higher prices (stagflation). I would rather take the deflation for 400 Jim!

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:17 PM
OK...more dire news...

Reform the International Monetary System
Submit Date:2009-3-23 17:39:00
China calls for new reserve currency

China’s central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund.

In an essay posted on the People’s Bank of China’s website, Zhou Xiaochuan, the central bank’s governor, said the goal would be to create a reserve currency “that is disconnected from individual nations and is able to remain stable in the long run, thus removing the inherent deficiencies caused by using credit-based national currencies”.
More at link...

Oh boy...

[edit on 3/23/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:27 PM
Remember what I've been saying about China and the EU?

Like I always say when I make a prediction..."Quote me on it later".

Well start quoting kids. Because they are following the script to the letter.

I say this because the information that comes across my desk on a regular basis has prompted me to give as many warnings as possible.

Ignore the market people. It won't tell you what you want to know.

[edit on 23-3-2009 by projectvxn]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:43 PM
Yup, Ive been seeing China's actions coming for awhile now. We are so screwed.

Good news though my garden is doing wonderful!

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 07:11 PM
S&P/ASX 200 INDEX 3,622.30 72.00 2.03% 20:07
S&P/ASX 300 INDEX 3,605.50 71.70 2.03% 20:07
ALL ORDINARIES INDX 3,553.60 70.50 2.02% 20:07

New Zealand
NZX 50 FF GROSS INDEX 2,668.86 77.43 2.99% 19:46
NZX TOP 10 INDEX 774.90 22.46 2.98% 19:43
NZX 15 GROSS INDEX 4,955.05 138.13 2.87% 19:46
NZX ALL INDEX 667.76 18.37 2.83% 19:37

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